Originally posted by TOC:
I really apologize for the "Roger Bolton" gaffe. The only thing I can say in my defence is taht I had corrected the mistake myself before I saw your post.
But how can you call the U.S. attacks on Nazi countries and forces during World War II a preemptive atack? Taking sides in an ongoing conflict is not preemptive. That is rushing in to help someone who needs your help. I said earlier that if you break into you neighbour's home to kill him, just so he won't be able to kill you in the future, then that is a prememptive attack. But what if you hear noises from your neighbour's house, and you realize that others have broken in there and are trying to kill your neighbour? If you yourself rush in there to defend your neighbour, you are most certainly not carrying out a preemptive attack.
What if you are taking a stroll down a street where you don't live, and you hear cries for help coming out from a house whose occupants you don't know? If you run in there to help, you are still not carrying out a preemptive attack. Because the conflict is already there and you just want to help.
That is what The United States did during World War II. They sacrificed thousands and thousands and thousands of their soldiers for their "neighbours", or rather for the people on another street, when they heard their cries for help. America heard Europe's cries for help, and America elected to help us. That was the decision that the Roosevelt administration made for us Europeans, for our sake. America under Roosevelt (and Truman) did Europe an enormous favor, and at least people of my generation have certainly not forgotten it.
But the present U.S. administration seems so incredibly different from the Roosevelt (and Truman) ones. So incredibly different.
Ann
By this definition, then you fully support American forces going into the Palestinian territories and conquering it or maybe the entire Middle East. After all, our friends the Israelis have called for help time and time again as a small nation of 3 million faced 40 million Arabs around it in three separate wars and an ongoing hot and cold war in the territories. We help them with a total of $3 billion/year and much of their high-tech weaponry. There's a reason the Israelis in that poll you cited were wholeheartedly in favor of our attack on Iraq. We were taking out a huge threat to them. So to satisfy your definition of justified action, we'll just say we invaded Iraq to help Israel.
I seem to recall European governments begging President Clinton to intervene in Bosnia-Herzegovina. Why? Americans had absolutely zero interests there. Europe was not under a direct threat from Slobodon Milosevic, yet US troops were requested to bomb Serbian targets. Again, why? Out of friendship for our allies, US soldiers and airmen put their lives at risk for a cause that meant nothing to us and wasn't even understood by most. Ten years later, our soldiers are still there, despite having been promised that their deployment would be short and very limited.
It seems to be a huge double standard. When European interests are perceived to be at stake, it's justified for some country halfway around the world where most people hadn't even heard of Bosnia and Serbia to go and bomb Serbians. Even our illustrious Senator Ron Wyden of Oregon, when asked where Serbia was, couldn't locate it on a globe.
Europeans don't feel they are being threatened, despite the terrorist attacks in Madrid and London, so when their interests are not at stake, it seems they feel action isn't justified.
We are doing this to save ourselves this time, not directly to save others. That appears to be the difference between Roosevelt and Bush. It's okay to help friends in need, but helping ourselves is somehow not okay.
I should ask you. Is it only justified after the attack, after one of our cities lies in ruins and the mass graves are filled? Because if that's the only condition where an attack is justified, then it's far too late. Any defensive move earlier than that is preemption. If that's the case, then Europeans can feel free to hate us. We'd rather be alive than dead and popular.
<Of course, I'm being facetious about invading the Palestinian territories, but I'm using it to make a point.>
