My apology here, Nancy. I rechecked and see that it was Sheila who wanted to give Lois "a dose of her own medicine". She didn't sign her post but ended with a quote from you with your name attached, and so... what can I say, very sloppy on my part.
That’s okay. I really thought it was mine since it rather reflects some of my feelings about the first season Lois.
Ah, but i see that you do agree with the quote.
Yes, I do.
and notice it's *revenge* he wants here, not to forgive or understand her
Yeah, but after this episode, he turned into Lois’ doormat.
or how about when he tossed her in the dumpster?
Forgot about that one. Good get, Clark.
(not to mention the fact that he'd horned in on her story and had just succeeded in taking it from her, not to mention his use of physical violence...)
I don’t remember that part. Weren’t they both working on the story? Independently?
How dare she not love him?
No, I don’t think that.
As well, Clark Kent, not unlike some folcs(?) perhaps, never had much respect, let alone sympathy for Lois's love for Superman. But that love was real to her, and it was there from the beginning. Why do we imagine that she was hurt any less over Superman's blowing hot (well luke warm ) and cold with her than was Clark Kent over her treatment of him? Is it again because we know what Lois did not - that Superman was not a "real" person? So therefore Lois's feelings for him couldn't be real? But they were to her.
Oh, I do have respect of Lois’ love of Superman. And yes it was real to her. I never doubted that. I like the fics that explore Superman breaking down and giving in to Lois’ love for Superman. So I wonder why when you see those few fics where Superman gives in to her and starts a relationship with her (as Superman) that folks say he is being dishonest with her because he is not telling her he is Clark Kent? Is that any more dishonest than Clark keeping the fact from her that he is Superman? (And I’ve been writing one… shameless plug. It’s on the nfic side.)
Ah, but he did treat her feelings for Superman like that.
Yes, I suppose you are right - at least when he rejected her. He was hurting, but he shouldn’t have hurt her in return. He could have told Lois that he knew she would not love him the same if he was just a normal man instead of saying.. “Under the circumstances…”
For me, Lois Lane is not expendable, nor is she just a sidekick or another babe on his list.
I never meant to insinuate that.
But I get that you really do dislike Lois Lane.
No, I don’t dislike Lois. Really, I don’t. I disliked the
first season Lois. And while I know a lot of the Folcs here are strictly LnC fans, I’m not. I like all the genres of Superman, so that’s why I say that for me, Clark is the main character. And hey, I’m not the only one that feels that way (even among the LnC fans).
Hmm... after reading this thread, maybe it is time for me to write a Lois moves on story.
I thought the same thing. I’m seeing you on the boards more now, ML, so I hope that means you are feeling better and able to sit better.
Enormously increased life span - though just how much we don't really know since canon was rather vague on that point. But it's something we won't ever experience first hand, and I think that makes it something that holds some appeal to writers as an avenue of exploration. What would it be like to outlive everyone you love?
Yes, I agree that it’s a great avenue of exploration.
Perhaps not L & C canon, though. Time Minear, the writer of Brutal Youth, is on record as stating that he intended that episode to imply that the longevity scale was more or less balanced as a result of Clark having given up some of his 'life force'.
That’s true, but it was still actually left up in the air what would have happened. Remember he also went on record to say they would have a kid that suddenly grew into a teenager as happened on Angel. (And god forbid that should have happened….)
Just popping in to say that Minear saying that doesn't make it canon for me.
Exactly.
I love Lois, warts and all, and don't want to see her punished.
I don’t want to see her punished either. But I do enjoy elseworld fics where something totally different happens - be it with Clark or Lois.
I don't think that conclusion's warranted at all. Nancy may not like Lois Lane as passionately as you do, Carol, but that doesn't mean she *dis*likes her. You can dislike specific behaviors without disliking the whole person.
No, I don’t dislike Lois. I disliked things that she did. I also disliked things Clark did, but not as much as I disliked the things that Lois did.
As for Tim Minear, he also said that the "Family Hour" baby was going to grow up to be a bratty teenager within a few weeks, and I don't think any of us treat *that* as canon (Has anyone ever tried that story, btw, or have we all rolled our eyes and declared it too stupid to bother with?)
I mentioned this before I read this part of your feedback. Well… I’d think it would be pretty stupid. Have you watched how cheesy it was on Angel? But there was a fic that I recently read that
sort of dealt with this. It’s a short fic called Superman’s Pajamas and is available on the archive.
Um, perhaps - but Nancy didn't state anything positive at all about Lois but only negatives so it's not an illogical conclusion to have reached. Of course, my interpretation may be wrong - only Nancy can say for sure.
Well, in this particular thread I was expounding on ‘Lois getting some of her own medicine’. I’m not a Lois basher really. But when I watched the first season sometimes I just wanted to reach into the screen and strangle her. She was just so different that any Lois I had ever come across. It bugged me. It still does. Man, if I’d ever treated one of my male co-workers the way Lois treated hers, I bet I would have gotten in trouble. She did change and soften, and I would have loved to see that continue in a fifth season. I really like the Lois in the fourth season. She still had her edge, but she was kind and thoughtful and didn’t have the overpowering urge to be always be cruel. But I’ve read threads where people say that they don’t like this softer, nicer Lois. To me, that sweet Lois was the real Lois. And I thought she was more in line with Loises from other genres.
I was interested in why there were more 'Clark moving on and dead-Lois fics' than the reverse, set when the two were still *young*.
If I write one, will you read it? Will anyone?
Mxytsptlk (did I spell that right? Even close?)
Mxyzptlk
Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense, you know -- and I thought Nancy might take exception to you putting words in her mouth.
Well, I seem to be good for doing that myself…. So, no I don’t mind, but I will defend myself in again saying that I was expounding on ‘Lois getting some of her own medicine’.
Why the women, of course.
Okay, Ann, what you said sounds remotely like something you said in another thread that you started and I don’t believe many folks agreed with you. Now please don’t think I’m being harsh. I don’t even know what the outcome was in that thread because quite frankly I stopped reading it.
And as you well know, Ann, we agreed to disagree on the subject of Lois (and Clark) a long time ago.
Instead, women learn to seek protection from the dangerous world they live in by trying to gain favors from one individual man, the man they fall in love with, the man whose love they try to win for themselves, the man they want to marry, the man they ask to be their protector.
I disagree with this. I’ve found far more acceptance and ‘protection’ from the women (both wonderful friends and family) in my life than from the men (including friends and family).
Hmmm... still an interesting thread.
