Ooof this is long. And repetitive.
Are you suggesting that we should never compare or reference what we saw in the series to what we read in fanfics?
All I’m getting at is to be aware that even what we “saw” in the series is hardly something objective we can use to police what fic premises are “LnC” or not. Of course we should compare and reference because that’s the fun, but I don’t think that it’s productive to use it as a critique, since its likely nothing the writer can change other than not writing the fic. It's just negative. I give an example below.
If some major aspect (notice my avoidance of the word 'canon' ) of the series is to be changed,.
Yes, but my point is that even that #1 “major aspect” is not something that every fan of the series agrees on. For example, to some people having *Clark* as the protagonist and not Superman is that one important thing—it is that which facilitates there being a “Lois and” in the first place. Some people think it’s both Lois AND Clark as *individual characters* equally. Some people think it’s the characters as *romantically* involved. And even these examples are over-generalizing, but all are valid. I think the fact that we're having this discussion is a good indicator of this.
then I do think the author has to make that change plausible within the context of what we saw in the series
Usually I would agree, but in certain occasions what “we saw in the series” (which is btw another way of saying “canon”) is hardly the same. To use my previous example, some people “saw” in the series that Clark could kill if pushed beyond certain bounds. Some people “saw” he couldn’t no matter what. And there’s people who are in between. But if you just didn’t “see” that such a thing could happen, the fic is doomed from the start, not because of the premise itself—but because it doesn’t work
for you . No “context” will ever justify it or fix it because you didn’t “see” it in the series to begin with. Same thing with if you "saw" Lois as more important or Clark, or if you think them both as fighters as the central attraction, or their romance--the shadings are endless.
I guess at this point I should say that I’m not arguing about sloppy writing or overtly shady characterizations here. If you’re setting the fic immediately post Pilot and have Lois declaring her love for Clark in the first sentence and successively have them getting married without explaining most of us will agree that there’s a problem. But most people here are too skilled in characterization to make huge oversights like that so the issue, I believe, is much more subtle. We wouldn’t be discussing this if it were otherwise.
But surely there has to be more to a fic to warrant the label "L & C" fic than just the use of the characters from the show? Were it as wide open as that, then I'm guessing that most Smallville fanfics would also qualify as L & C fic.
Obviously not just the characters, I added an etc. and just meant to leave it vague because “LnC” at some point becomes something slippery. What are the basics? I’d offer two. Sure it’s about romance and chemistry between Lois and Clark. Sure it’s about Clark more than Superman. But there might be more that I’m not mentioning. How far to diverge from the series for it to still be acceptable is one of those questions without a clear answer. Ultimately it's up to the mods, and they've been doing a great job in keeping this fandom so open.
I mean just look at genre. Some fics go way off in a different genre than the series. But to some people even the genre is “LnC” and something not keeping with the tv series' family-hour feel automatically does not make it “LnC” and they won’t read it. Didn’t Labrat just mention how some of the fics we consider classics now, were objects of controversy in their time—for being outside the bounds of “Lois and Clark” be it in drama (as opposed to lighthearted comedy) or whatever?
Clearly, there is much of L & C that is open to interpretation, but surely there is something intrinsic that makes L & C, well, L& C, and not say Smallville or SR or...?
Yes, but even that intrinsic thing that makes it LnC for me is not what makes it LnC for you. Chances are they are related, which is why a community exists in the first place, but they might not be the same. My problem is that slapping that “not LnC” critique on a fic gives no room for the writer to fix anything. What can Terry (I hope he doesn’t mind my using him as an example, it’s just what’s most vivid, because it’s so well done) do against the charge that Rebuilding Superman isn’t “LnC” since person X didn’t “see” Clark be able to kill in the series? What kind of "constructive" feedback would something like this be? What does a reader seek to accomplish with this--because honestly I thought feedback was a gift to authors not a bat to the head.
How is deconstructing a story dismissing the creative process? Sometimes what and how an author writes is indicative of how the writer subconscioulsy thinks about some issues[...]I'm not sure that this is ascribing an attitude to the author's biography - the evidence is in the actual text. At any rate I'm not sure that the "creative process" is always completely independent of a writer's values and attitudes.
Clearly what we believe influences what we write BUT it’s a question of degree. And since no one can clear that up, it's safer to begin and end with the _text_ not the writer--which is what I'm arguing for. Accuse the _text_ all day, but leave the writer out of it (unless he/she says something and even then...)
I’m no psychologist or psychic, so if I don’t actually know the person how can I pretend to know the entirety of his/her views on a subject based on one piece of _fanfiction_? It must be quite offensive actually to have someone else claim that what you’ve written shows you think/agree with X, when perhaps your point was something else and it was just a mistake in conveying it/different interpretation.
Your argument also doesn’t take into account that HOW we read influences our interpretation just as much as any authorial intention (maybe even more) because none of us can claim to be unbiased to begin with either.
I've always said it, it's about the execution, not the premise. Never the premise. A good author should be able to carry anything through. If it doesn't work--then it doesn't work because of the writer or the reader, not because it's "not LnC."
alcyone
