Thank you for your thoughtful and respectful reply, Corrina.
First of all, I didn't mean to launch a wholesale attack on Christianity. I most
definitely didn't mean to launch a wholesale attack on Jesus, the way he is presented in the Gospels. And I most absolutely, definitely didn't mean to launch a wholesale attack on all Christians. I really hope you can believe that, Corrina.
When I carefully read the Bible to find out about its attitude to women, I was amazed at Jesus' respectfulness to the women he interacted with. I wholeheartedly agree with you here:
For his time and in his culture, Jesus was radically respectful of women.
Absolutely! I want to point out that I didn't mean to criticize Jesus when I mentioned that he spoke of his mother in a certain way. I wanted to say, rather, that the Bible doesn't generally treat Mary as a character worthy of reverence. There is precious little of any Biblical reverence for her outside of the first chapter of Luke.
As a matter of fact, I think you can see signs in the Bible that Mary was the subject of some contempt in the town where she lived, probably because she had given birth to Jesus before she was married. Christians believe that Mary was a virgin when she had Jesus, but her virginity wouldn't have been obvious to her local contemporaries. Personally I believe that Jesus' absolutely remarkable respect for women had its roots in his sympathy for and loyalty to his mother, despite the contempt that some people probably showed her.
So again, please believe me when I say that I'm not criticizing Jesus.
Also, when it comes to Christian people, I am good friends with a woman who is a missionary, and whose courage and good will I am absolutely amazed at. She is the kind of missionary who is very light on preaching and very "heavy" on general care, medical help, schooling, food support, what have you. I'm sure you know Matthew 25:34-36:
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
Well, that summarizes my friend, let me tell you. That's what she is like. And she doesn't stay at home, as I said, but she goes abroad and goes to dangerous and difficult places, and she suffers all kinds of hardship and dangers for the sake of others, and she doesn't seem to think that this makes her very special at all. She is full of fun and jokes, but she never boasts about herself. She is really and truly Christian, the kind of person who goes to church every Sunday and so on, but she doesn't make a big deal about it.
So, Corrina, how could I ever say that Christian people are bad, or that you become a bad person by being Christian?
However, I
will say that the Bible contains many frightening and, in my opinion, downright evil passages. I'm not backing down from that.
Also, I
will say that Christianity has traditionally often treated women quite badly. I
will say that many conservative Christians have not been listening to Jesus very much, but instead they have regarded Jesus as the "sacrifical lamb" of Christianity, the man who laid down his life so that we can live. But these conservative Christians have often not regarded Jesus as a teacher whom we should listen to so we can know
how we should live. Instead, these conservative Christians have regarded Paul as their foremost authority and teacher, and Paul's overall message was that people should know their place and obey those who hold authority over them. Therefore, Paul repeated over and over that women should obey their husbands. Jesus
never said that. And yet, this call for wifely subordination is very important to many conservative Christians.
Also, Jesus most certainly
never said that it was important to punish or even kill women for their sexual transgressions. If you read the Gospels carefully, you will find that Jesus
always defends and forgives exactly these "fallen" women. And yet conservative Christian societies have so often punished women very harshly for sexual transgressions. For example, women have often been punished and even put to death for becoming pregnant out of wedlock, whereas men have rarely been punished for extramarital affairs. This flies in the face of what Jesus said about men's and women's sexuality.
(When I say "conservative Christian societies", I speak primarily about Europe a hundred years ago and more.)
I think it would be very dangerous, not least to women, to make the Bible the law of a society. There are very many horrible and frightening passages about women in the Bible.
One message that is repeated again and again in the Bible is that the sexuality of women is horribly dangerous and can wreak havoc. No, Jesus most certainly never said so, but many other voices in the Bible say it. This is an excerpt from Numbers 25:
Moab Seduces Israel
1 While Israel was staying in Shittim, the men began to indulge in sexual immorality with Moabite women, 2 who invited them to the sacrifices to their gods. The people ate and bowed down before these gods. 3 So Israel joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor. And the LORD's anger burned against them.
4 The LORD said to Moses, "Take all the leaders of these people, kill them and expose them in broad daylight before the LORD, so that the LORD's fierce anger may turn away from Israel."
5 So Moses said to Israel's judges, "Each of you must put to death those of your men who have joined in worshiping the Baal of Peor."
6 Then an Israelite man brought to his family a Midianite woman right before the eyes of Moses and the whole assembly of Israel while they were weeping at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting. 7 When Phinehas son of Eleazar, the son of Aaron, the priest, saw this, he left the assembly, took a spear in his hand 8 and followed the Israelite into the tent. He drove the spear through both of them—through the Israelite and into the woman's body. Then the plague against the Israelites was stopped; 9 but those who died in the plague numbered 24,000.
As you can see, we are told that Midianite or Moabite women seduce Israeli men and make them engage in pagan worship and immoral sexuality. God unleashes his fury on Israel in retaliation, and 24,000 Israelis are killed. This is the kind of story that teaches us that unchecked female sexuality brings disaster and multiple deaths.
When Terry said that 9/11 happened because of the sort of American culture that is represented by Paris Hilton, the Kardashian sisters and Lady Gaga, I felt that this was the same thing as saying that the immorality of female American cultural icons made Muslim people so enraged that they needed to attack America presumably to destroy its immorality. And I thought that the scenario that Terry painted was frighteningly similar to the story told in Numbers 25: Immoral women flash their sexuality, causing righteous wrath, and thousands of people are killed as a result.
But I don't believe for a moment that this was the true cause of 9/11. I followed a lot of international reports in the aftermath of 9/11, and nowhere was it suggested that this horrible attack was an attempt by the Muslim world to wipe out the sexual immorality of American women. A number of other reasons were put forth, but never this one. I absolutely don't believe in it, but still worse, I consider the whole idea an insidious attack on the freedom of women. The very suggestion that the immorality of western women caused 9/11 calls for a clampdown on the freedom of western women, or at least that is how I see it.
But let me say, finally, that I have
no criticisms against Jesus. I also believe that most Christian people are good people, not at all motivated by the more scary parts of the Bible, most of which they probably don't even know about.
I was trying to say basically two things, namely these:
1) It is ridiculous as well as truly scary and ominous to suggest that 9/11 happened because of the immorality of American women.
2) A society built entirely on the Bible, so that the Bible becomes its law, has every chance of deteriorating into a society which is as harsh and horrible as countries like Saudi Arabia, Afghanistan, Iran and others.
But that doesn't mean that there aren't many good things in the Bible, and it doesn't mean that most Christian people aren't good people.
Ann
