Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Mosque at Ground Zero

I have stayed out of this discussion for a whole number of reasons, among them that I think that Ground Zero is an extremely American site, so what should happen there should be a discussion for Americans among themselves. I still think so, but a few things have been said here that I must protest against.

Terry, I understand and share your concern about Muslim proselytizing in prisons. That really happens in many Western countries. I really think that in many cases inmates are being told, either by imams or by fellow inmates, that they have been unfairly treated by a godless western society, and the right way for them to regain their human dignity is to fight against the western society in the name of Islam. So far there have been extremely few cases anywhere in the west where former prisoners have actually carried out terror attacks against their own country in the name of Islam - I'm not sure there has been a single such attack that can be directly linked to proselytizing in prisons - but I think that this is a real concern anyway, since many frustrated prisoners may be happy to find a "legitimate" reason to get back at society. I don't know how that can be addressed, but I agree that the problem should be taken seriously. (Although I don't see how proselytizing in prisons has anything to do with whether or not there should be a mosque at Ground Zero.)

But I react very strongly when people try to blame 9/11 in itself on America's supposedly too liberal and feminist culture. To me, that suggestion is a very severe attack on the democratic, liberal, secular society that I want to live in. Why do I want to live in the west and not in a Muslim country? It is because here in the west I am allowed to be an individual and make my own choices. I am allowed to search for my own answers. I have the right to be treated as a human being even though I am a woman. I am nobody's property but a subject of my own.

I think that suggestions from people like Jerry Falwell and Dinesh D'Souza is an attack on precisely the human rights that set the west apart from almost all of the Muslim world. I feel that the goals of people like Falwell are sometimes too similar to those of conservative Muslims. It has to do with establishing a society where mighty men explain and enforce the will of God on not-so-mighty men and women on the Earth. Part of explaining the will of God is almost always to make sure that woman must be subordinate to man.

Terry, in explaining why 9/11 happened in the first place, you named several American women, Paris Hilton, the Kardashian sisters (whom I have never heard about) and Lady Gaga:

Are you serious about this, Terry? 9/11 happened because of Paris Hilton, the Kardashian sisters and Lady Gaga?

You talked about straight-laced Arab men and the frustration they have to suffer when their daughters try to imitate Lady Gaga. Are you seriously suggesting that the most effective way for America to protect itself from further attacks is to make sure that America has no more Paris Hiltons, Kardashian sisters or Lady Gagas?

You talked about the straight-laced Arab man, whose frustrations you sympathized with. Well, yesterday there was a documentary on Swedish TV where you could see such a straight-laced frustrated Arab man. The documentary was about two young gay Swedish people of Arab descent who had received death threats from their own families because of their sexual orientation. I am going to post a Youtube video which is entirely in Swedish with clips from this documentary, so that you can, at least, look at the young gay man and the young gay woman and see an interview with the woman's stepfather. The stepfather left Sweden after twenty-five years in our country, because he felt that his daughter had shamed him so badly that he couldn't live here anymore.

In the end of the video, the stepfather is heard saying this:

"To me, she is not a human being. She is worse than an animal. I say, animals don't do what Cherin does. She is not a human being and she is not an animal. She is worse."

Worse than animals

But the stepfather didn't threaten to gather his own army or to found his own Al Qaeda force to attack Sweden in retaliation for humiliating him by protecting his shameless stepdaughter. So, Terry, did bin Laden's men attack America in retaliation for being humiliated by Paris Hilton? Or did Jerry Falwell and Dinesh D'Souza just put forth this theory in the hopes that they could do what straight-laced Arab men can do, namely punish unruly women who aren't sufficiently subordinate to them?

Ann