Hi,
I've been reading lcfanfic here and on Annesplace for some six months now, and I was just wondering what is left?
Are there even more stories at Zoomways board, or do all those stories go into the archive too?

Also I've some difficulty getting a handle on the Nfic.
Are there a comprehensive list of nFic awards by year and category somewhere?

And btw the quality of the writing overall is just mindblowing, is this standard for fanfic? Because if it is professional writers should should have trouble making a living.

It depends. If you're talking about the archive at Annesplace, no, they're not all there, although a lot of them are. If you're talking about the Fanfic Archive, http://lcfanfic.com/ , mostly everything that isn't nfic winds up there eventually. There are a few, however, that didn't. You can check through the TOC on Zoomway's board to see if there are any that you've missed.

Nan

Well, it's standard for *this* fandom... and there are talented writers all over the place, but lots of other fandoms do a lot worse, in aggregate. I think that's because we encourage things like spelling and grammar and comprehensible plots... it's sort of the broken-window theory of story quality. If you keep the small things in line, the bigger things get better, too.

PJ

Have you found the two indexes? It lists the stories and where you can find them:
Nfic:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Meteor/7378/nficindex.html
Gfic:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Meteor/7378/lnc.html
The Index Crew is very good at keeping track of stories.
And you most definitely need to find the Archive. They are implementing new search software too.
http://www.lcfanfic.com/
I've found that some of these stories surpass published novels in demonstrating their writing skills.
Happy reading!

Artemis

Thank you for your replies.

Nan,

I can do that. But it’s kind of difficult to get a overview with all those textlinks. Lots of duplication with the archive and no descriptions.

I’m kind of reluctant to register to a dozen different sites. It makes me realize how obsessively much I have read.

Well, if you've found the Archive, then you've found the majority of the PG fic out there. Other than stories posted at fanfiction.net by people who don't seem to know that the Archive exists, everything seems to end up on the Archive. Stories posted here in instalments end up there once they're completed, edited and so on.

As for nfic, there isn't as comprehensive an archive. Annesplace is an author-based archive and any nfic writer can ask to have their work uploaded there, but not everyone has. Annette (the webmaster) does also host PG fic by the nfic authors she hosts, but she doesn't attempt to be a comprehensive PG archive - it's more a generous courtesy to the nfic authors who've also written PGfic.

To the best of my knowledge, Zoomway hasn't ever written nfic - I seem to remember seeing her comment once that she just couldn't do it. It's not as easy as it might look. The vast majority of nfic authors that I can think of are on Annesplace.

As for the two message boards, there's a bit of history there, but it's ancient history now and honestly not worth revisiting. The distinction, mainly, though is that Zoomway's message boards focus on the actors and their careers and lives - so if you're a Dean or Teri fan that's the place to go to talk about what they're doing these days, rave about Desperate Housewives, post photos of their kids and so on. These message boards focus on fanfic. You'll have noticed that a lot of people happily coexist on both.

Anyway, welcome, and I hope you enjoy the fanfic! Do check out the TOCs, because that's how you'll find all parts of stories posted on these boards. Don't miss an outstanding story by CC Aiken called In A Better Place - so far these boards are the only place you can read it.


Wendy

Re the indexes:
Hmmm. both work fine for me. I tried them before I posted the url. Is there something on your end?
Annesplace uses the term Archive, but the one we're talking about is different. That is the biggest amount of fanfic there is. Right now there are 2,723 stories there (all G rated), some of them novel length. If you've read all that, there's not much more you can get except read real time here and on Zoomway's site.

As to registering on different nfic sites, there is no choice if you want to read nfic. They have to be password protected or we can't have them. My browser software remembers my passwords, so it's no inconvenience.
There are individual authors sites too, (which is where I got started), but most of their fiction is on the Archive too. There's a Lois and Clark webring (just google "Lois and Clark"), but again most of the fanfiction winds up where we've pointed.

Artemis

Maybe you'd like to take a look at these boards' Challenge folder, too. There are some stories that don't end up in the Archive, especially short, fun pieces, such as the Reader's Digest Fic versions and the Drabbles.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Wendymr,

Ok, how about the Nfic kerths?

So the nfic section there is the same as the one here?

To bad, not so much for the lack of steam, but I had hoped I had missed some of her stories.


Well, I tried, Aiken is a wonderful writer but time travel and parallel dimensions isn’t really what gets me going.

Btw Wendy, thank you for your incredible stories, I say more but your head might swell and explode. I wouldn't want that on my conscience.


Artemis,
Probably, they are working now. Thank you. I was looking for something like this.

Anna B,
I'll do that. thank you.

You can find out everything you need to know about the nkerths here on their official website.

No. There is some small crossover between the two forums, with some authors posting their stories on both sites. But this cross-posting represents a very miniscule amount of the total stories out there.

There are authors who only post their stories on Zoomway's mbs and others who only post their stories here, as suits them.

Annesplace is where you'll find the majority of all nfic in the fandom gathered on one site.

But if you really want to ensure that you haven't missed a story, then you would really have to trawl through all three sites to be sure. (And even then you'll probably miss out on personal websites and other websites out there we don't know about. )

LabRat

Hey,
This is exactly what I was looking for. It is almost the same link as Artemis, but it has summaries for the different stories like the archive. It looks very complete. It lists Nkerth awards and multiple locations too.

nficDirectory

I remember Zoomway writing on some nfic round robins (rr's); a whole group used to write them together online. I think the rr's are most likely to have been archived at annesplace in the nfic section

I don't think I've ever heard Zoomway say that she couldn't write nfic, but I'll agree with Wendy, that writing nfic (or any fic for that matter ) well is harder than it loooks.

There's an old quote, attributed variously to Edwin Keane, Edwin Booth, Edmund Gwen, and at least 7 or 8 other people in the entertainment industry, that says, "Dying is easy, comedy is hard." I know that they're speaking about acting, rather than writing, so I'll paraphrase the last part of their statement with "writing entertaining comedy fanfic is hard." Zoomway's fics have always impressed me as being up to that challenge I especially like her funny dialog, because it's so much like the clever dialog that initially attracted me to the show

Have fun reading the stories in the archive, Arawn; there's some great fic writing there

Snarla2

Zoomway had one very shorth Nfic listed in the nFic archive.

Snarla2,

Exactly,it's her command of dialogue that makes her stand out. Many people writes great stories with complex A and B plots but most lack the incessant verbal sparring that marks the characters on the TV-screen.

Btw if I want to ask an author about their stories is it better to mail them or ask away on the board?


(Lets assume I have nice things to say. )

If an author posts to the board regularly, I'm sure he or she would like to hear those nice things publicly

If it's someone you haven't seen on the boards, you might be better off to write to them privately, just to make sure they get your comments.

I think that any author would be happy to get fan mail

snarla2

I've written on a lot of round robins with Zoomway, including a few nfics, and to the best of my recollection she never wrote the "flesh" parts. She used to say she just didn't write nfic, probably because it is a lot harder than it might look. I tried writing a serious nfic once, but it really was not worth reading, so I gave up, too.

PJ

I can jump in on that. Because of our nicks, Zoomway usually followed me in online RRs during the summer of '97 when we practically wrote one nfic per week. I was one of the "fleshers," those who wrote the "n" part of the nfic, and zoomway followed me, and then she was often followed by Demi, another flesher in the group. I remember one time where I started a scene of oral sex and, forgetting that zoom followed me instead of demi, passed on to her.

Man, I could practically hear zoom's shriek with my ears instead of my eyes. Actually, she did a terrific job of inserting some very clever dialog and then passed to Demi, who went on with the action portion. Since that was at least the second time I'd done that to her, she's always teased me about doing it on purpose.

So, long answer to a short question, zoom doesn't do nfic. Innuendo? Oh yes. Graphic sex? No.

Re the two sites, most of the fanfic goes to this site, but since zoom's board is where it started, the forums haven't been removed and some folc continue to read their fic there. Primarily, this site emphasizes fanfic, while zoom's site emphasizes all aspects of the show itself, including actors, gossip, the DVDs, fanfic, and other creative productions. The L&C forum on this board tends to involve more games, often writing-based, such as the "write a caption to go with this screencap" game. On zoom's board, the L&C forum involves a lot more discussion of the show itself, such as the current discussion on resolving the character of Lois presented in most of the eps with the background given her in Teri's IASMAA ep, although there are also hangman-type games and quote quizzes.

Other than some nfic on zoom's board, I haven't seen much fic that doesn't appear on this board as well. One of the problems is that zoom's old board crashed, and we lost a lot of pre-2001 nfic. Have some of the fic writers reposted their stories on the nfic boards here?

[OT]Aha! So you've been reading that thread. I hope you contribute, because I always enjoy reading your posts on issues that concern the show and the characters . I've tried a few times to get a discussion going about how the characters behaved in different episodes, but somehow those discussions always fizzle. Maybe the topics aren't controversial enough . [/OT]

And, here, a lot of discussion topics, which would traditionally find their way to being posted in the LNC forum - as on Zoomway's mbs - tend instead to end up in the polls section. As a result our LNC forum isn't as well populated. So if you're new to these mbs and looking for discussions on LNC characterisations etc, it's worthwhile trawling through Polls. There have been some interesting debates in there in the past.

LabRat

Hmm,well you have been warned.
I've been reading L&C stories for some six months know and minus vignettes and some alt-universe and future stories I've been through pretty much everything.
And if asked about my favourite story I would say Burnout.
A perfect blend of waff and wham, depth,physical details language, dialouge, a amazingly sultry Lois that contrary to many others incarnations not only talks a good game but actually don't take any prisoners.
My only regret is that I would have liked to see a sequel.
Labrat also has my favourite relevations scene.

A trick's a trick, no matter how big or how small. Once you figure it out it's not magic anymore."

Why thank you, Arawn - that's one terrific compliment, considering what's out there. For some reason, while I was writing that one it became vitally important to me that the entire story took place during the one night and had to be wrapped up before morning.

If it hadn't been, I'd have let Lois walk out and then resolved the argument after a day or so. And I agree that would have been a more natural pacing.

I have no idea now why it was important to me to condense everything into that short period of time. Just know it was at the time.

LabRat

that's one terrific compliment

I hope so, it was my intention.

As for the sequel...still three-quarters written, still not going anywhere in the near future. Still the story from hell.
Is it now I’m supposed to break out all those cute smilies?

Did it help?

May I ask what the problem is? I would love to have a look at even the draft.

LOL! Don't know that it will do much good, Arawn, but thanks for the encouragement.

Well, mostly the problem is/was that the story didn't at all go in the direction I'd intended it to and turned out completely differently from what I originally wanted.

It's so different in tone from Burnout, that I'm sure that those who have since been clamouring for a sequel to that story will be highly disappointed if I ever posted it, because it won't be what they expect.

Plus...not sure I'm happy with it. I like bits of it. <g> Just not sure I like the whole thing.

But right now, none of that matters anyway, because the Muse went on vacation to somewhere north of Bolivia many months ago and I just don't currently have the inclination to write...well, anything.

Maybe one day, I'll wake up with the need to write again. Who knows?

LabRat

As long as it doesn’t go into alternative dimensions or sexchange, I doubt I wouldn’t like it, but of course if people appreciate it highly, I can understand you being concerned about expectations. But if an author is stuck why couldn’t some feedback help you get going again?

Ok, then I wont pester you. Now you know that you have another fan anyway.

Well a couple of other things.

1.There is a author named "the Gorn" at Annes place that writes some truly outstanding L&C. Do anyone know if she has written any regular fics?


2. Eventually I learned that Burnout was an nfic so it's lack of a Kerth flag stopped to amaze me.

Was Wendy's Second thoughts also an Nfic originally? Because I have a hard time understanding why she wasn't at least nominated with that one. (Incredible episode adaptation, an A-plot that made Luthor look like a true evil mastermind. Lois was actually allowed to make sense. I have a hard time choosing between this and Thompsons whammy "First comes marriage", but that one at least has the recognition it deserves.)


3. Then I would like to make a homage to Nicole Sullivan. I voted for her three times this year.

But I constantly lose her best story (IMHO) "The Way You Look Tonight" because I assume it must have a kerthflag.



Seriously, the voting committee must have lost the story or their brains most have been taken over by aliens or something...

The Gorn gave up the fandom and writing a long, long time ago. She had issues with the direction the show took in its latter seasons. A great loss to the fandom, I'll agree. She wrote some of my favourite ever nfic. All of the nfic she did write - including a half-written one that was never finished - are at Annesplace, far as I know.

LOL! Thanks. If I had a pound for every time someone said to me "I really wanted to nominate Burnout in the Kerths, but I couldn't work out a category that it fitted in" I'd....have £3,476.23

I don't know why it happened that way, but it just seemed to give people problems working it in. Over the years, I've found it kind of ironic, considering it's the story I get the most positive fdk for and the most pestering for a sequel.

Generally speaking though, this is one of the curses of our fandom. We have so many high quality, Kerth-worthy stories posted each year that sheer pressure of numbers ensures that some excellent stories don't even make it to the nominations let alone win a Kerth. We suffer for our high standards, unfortunately, and dozens of stories slip through the net each year which would win Kerths in almost any other fandom which has less stories to choose from or fewer A-class stories.

That's why I don't think the Kerths - nominations or winners - lists are necessarily the best place to go for a starting point to the best fanfic in this fandom. It would be a good starting point in some other fandoms. But here, you'd miss out on a heck of a lot of wonderful stories if you took the Kerths as being the only measure of excellence. Seriously - we're just that good.

Oh, and we don't have a voting committee. K-Comm tallies up the votes received, but stories are voted on by FoLCs.

LabRat

Wow, thank you! But, honestly, it's all a question of what other stories are around in any given year, and it's also personal tastes, too. The Kerths aren't a matter of a committee somewhere deciding what's good enough to win. They're all decided by FoLCs: people like you and me.

FoLCs nominate stories they enjoyed in the categories you've seen. If your story gets enough nominations, it ends up on the shortlist. But there are only five or six nomination slots for any category, so if there are lots of excellent stories in any given year - as there usually are - a story you might have nominated because you thought it was good might not make it. Because it's all a matter of taste and personal preference - you might love a story and someone else may think it's just okay. And vice versa.

And then FoLCs vote on the nominated stories - and can you imagine choosing between some of them? Yet you have to - you can only vote for one story in each category.

I'm really flattered that you liked Second Thoughts enough to think that it deserved a Kerth nomination. Thank you!

As for Burnout, it's exactly as LabRat said - there wasn't a category then that it'd have slotted neatly into. It's not really a drama. It's not a revelation story. It's not a tearjerker. And, at the time, there wasn't a Relationship category. My story Just Another Undercover Assignment sort of fell into the same category-gap - although there's a revelation at the very end, it's not a particularly memorable one. And, just like Rat with Burnout, I had people tell me they didn't know where to nominate it.

Glad you're enjoying making your way through the Archive - so many gems in there, right?


Wendy

So you've been investing this money?

Sadly not. I blew it all on cheese and kibble. Oh and that shiny little wheel...

LabRat

Then whence the 23 pence?

Um...that would tend to come into the all, really.

Kibble's expensive these days.

LabRat

Labrat,
Well I thought so but I had to ask. She is incredible at creating pictures.

Clark surreptitiously scanned her pack with his X-ray vision and rolled his eyes as he readjusted his glasses. She must have been in a rare snit when she went home to collect her things. Nobody as smart as Lois was could have packed so stupidly otherwise. To supplement her chocolate, she had brought a Tupperware container full of what looked like potato salad, a jello cup and a bag of pretzels. The potato salad would be spoiled in a few more hours, the jello would melt and the pretzels wouldn't last the night. He hoped she liked fresh caught fish.

Jimmy had left ample room in his pack for his camera, a box of powerbars, a stack of CD's and the latest model Gameboy, which Perry promptly confiscated. Perry's gear was unremarkable except for his giant sized Elvis beach towel which Jimmy foolishly cracked would have almost covered the King at his last concert, thus earning the chief's blackest look.
Clark confessed to having with him a change of shirt and underwear, a book, a pocket knife, a brown bag with a grease spot on the bottom and a couple of cans of pork and beans. When Jimmy pointed out that he had forgotten to bring a can opener, Clark felt appropriately stupid.

Actually she is pretty incredible all around.

**Laugh your way out of this one Lois**, the tiny annoying voice in her head taunted. And then she felt a wave of anger, normal and reassuring. Her temper hadn't failed her yet. If nothing else, anger would carry her through, and she could feel herself growing very angry indeed. .... Besides, mere friendship would be a pale, unsatisfying thing in the face of love, hurt and ire.


I wasn't really flattering you. (I thought I had already taken care of that ).
The reason it stopped surprising me, was that I thought that since it was an Nfic (and an Nfic appropriately buried in awards) it wouldn't have been eligible for the Kerths as a rewrite.

No it isn't, but the trouble is that they are just about the only tool there is that helps you navigate among the stories. The themes feature for example, only scratch the surface.
For me it's like "that story was on the same page as that author with the three kerthawards after each other).A kerth story you can always find again, but a unnominated gem will just dissappear in the archive which is really sad.

Wendy,

Well did know about the voting part, but I thought the K-com handled the nominations.

Oh, I just thought it strange that it wasn't nominated. Award nominated stories have certain intangibles that are present in spades in Second Thoughts. If it was up to me it most likely would have won. . IMO you have won awards with less deserving pieces. But seriously saying that Wendy Richards write award calibre stories is about as controversial as saying that water is wet.

I especially like it that you so often have a new angle, it's not just about emotions and relationship. An A-plot isn't necessary, but makes L&C come a live and they don't appear so vacuum packaged. Second thoughts is such an intelligent story about Luthors campaign of cutting down Lois support network. Luthors growing bewilderment with his inability to make Clark Kent’s disappear and Lois frantic attempts to protect Clark. It’s like a classic romantic mix-up comedy, with the bombing of the planet as the last step. Many of these scenes would have been gold in the TV-series.

But on the subject on nonawarded stories, I loved the powershopping in a "Date by Arrangement"

Yeah, but it’s kind of a problem. When you still can find jawdropping stories on the sixth or seventh sweep, the sifting process becomes so meticulous that it feels like a like it's time to get a life.

It wasn't. It was the gfic version that was eligible for the Kerths. Any story in the fandom which has an nfic and a gfic version, and which fulfills the Kerth criteria of being posted within the eligibility period, is eligible for both the nKerths and Kerths.

There is the search data (which will eventually be come a searchable database). It's not the ideal, but it's a temporary solution and it will let you do a global search for various story criteria, such as all stories on the Archive set in S1 or all Tearjerker stories, etc. You'll find it here

The Themes section isn't really very helpful because it hasn't been added to in years. So it only covers a very small section of what's out there.

LabRat

Uhh. that didn't compute. Of course only the gfic could be eligible for the kerths? And in your preface I got the impression that it was an nfic originally. But it did win numerous awards as an nfic so perhaps people thought unfair if it would sweep the gfic too, (Or I could have no idea what I’m talking about. )

Wow, wish I had known about this one a six months ago. Only to sort stories by size makes easier to find things by a magnitude of ten.

Yes, it would have been. All of my stories which have two versions would start off as nfic and then I'd convert it to a gfic version later.

I'd be surprised if winning nKerth awards would have counted against Burnout in the Kerths as having versions of the same story in both awards is pretty common in the fandom. So it wouldn't have stood out as anything unusual there.

Also, generally speaking the nKerths tend to happen after the Kerths, so the Kerths were probably first in line. Although whether that was the case that particular year or there was some reason the nKerths for Burnout came first, I have no memory of. Always possible, I guess.


LabRat

Ohh!!! Thank you for such a wonderful compliment!!! Honestly - you had me at a loss for words when I read this and just *really* blushing, so... thank you again!! And I can't tell you what it means to me that you picked TWYLT out of the mix, as it was a story that I posted to the archive, as I didn't know about the boards yet (and I thank Pam Jernigan for fixing that and telling me about them <g>)... so this story got pretty much no FDK at all. I am thrilled you enjoyed it and thank you for the shout out

I'm glad you're having fun scouring the archive - there are so many amazing stories and talents there, which you've already learned <g>.

Oh! Thanks again!!

~Nicole (whose week you've made!)

If they ever read it, there most have been something seriously wrong with them. How about best overall story to begin with? Best comedy, best drama(seriously), best relationship? On my personal list I can see two or three stories ever written that could take Burnout in each category but none that is so strong overall. Sure it's about preferences too, but not by that much.

Well I might be biased but I seriously doubt you will be disappointed if you read Nicole's "The Way You Look Tonight" It's a very elegant mainstream piece with an unique twist, packed with waff.


"Clark! How did you... you know, you're like a puppy! What, did you smell me coming?"
"No... but you do smell good. What are you wearing?"

Lois smiled, although Clark had a feeling it wasn't a genuine smile. "It's called 'Irritability'. It's rare and they don't sell it everywhere." With that, she stomped off in the direction of the coffee machine.

Actually, Arawn, the year Burnout was written there wasn't a Best Relationship category. It hadn't been 'invented' yet. And the assumption tended to be made that Best Drama was for stories with significant A-plots.

As for Sara's Made to be Broken, it picked up two Kerth nominations, the maximum any story can have apart from Best Overall. It's just that the Kerth flags for this year's awards haven't yet been added to the Archive.


Wendy

Thank you Wendy. Then I understand it better. the year 2000 right? I'll have to admit it isn't easy to put it in there except the catch all category. Comedy? but while Burnout has some of the funniest parts I've read I can see why people don't want to label it comedy.

Ouch