Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Politics on the boards: Yea or Nay?

Since I seem to be having trouble these days saying things without being misconstrued, I'll try to be clear and simple:

This is just me asking a question to see how people feel.

I'm not doing it in any official capacity. Not on anyone's behalf. Not with an agenda I'm trying to push.

The question is as simple as it looks: "How do you feel about political discussions on the boards?" It is about such discussions in general and not any specific thread.

I know some of you seem to be enjoying it. The current thread is certainly active enough.

On the other hand, I've heard from a few others who did not enjoy having such discussions here, for various reasons.

But, all told, that's only a small number of posters in each category, with, as it happens, some overlap. I'd like to get a look at the bigger picture. So, ironically/appropriately enough, I'm asking you to vote on the subject. (Non-bindingly, of course. As mentioned above.)

Please choose the answer closest to how you feel, even if it doesn't fit perfectly. The main choices basically ask you to rate your feelings on the subject from 1-7. Option 8 is primarily for those who never visit the OT or polls section of the boards (in which case, what are you doing here?). Please try to avoid choosing option 9 ("Other").

As always, feel free to expand on your answer by replying in this thread.

I voted I enjoy them from time to time. If it's not a topic I'm interested in, I just don't open the thread. *shrug* I'm not particularly crazy about some of the movies that are discussed [as a for instance] so I just don't open the thread. Seems simple enough to me .

Carol

I don't mind them; I participate, but always with the subliminal warning about not getting out of hand, or worrying about changing someone else's opinion as that road leads to ulcers and insomnia. What I like about doing it here is that though I have political disagreements with some folks, we still maintain a friendly connection through our love of the show, our love of fic and fic topics.

I greatly admire the talent of many authors that I know aren't on the same political side that I'm on, but when it comes to their fanfic, all that stuff takes a backseat and I simply enjoy the story. I don't feel having political discussions on this board will change that.

I'm glad you asked this question, Paul.

Personally, I'd be happier if debates about politics and religion were not allowed on the boards. While I can (and do) avoid threads that fall in these categories, I think that these discussions don't help the general atmosphere around here, especially when political comments pop up in other threads where I don't expect them. I'm a member of other message boards where the topics of politics and religion are not allowed and it certainly makes for a more relaxed boards climate, in my opinion.

If people want to discuss politics or religion they can go elsewhere to do so. I don't see why these discussions have to take place in forums dedicated to a television show.

C_A said: They're not. That's precisely why we have an OFF topic forum.

Additionally, as for myself, I have a lot of friends that I've made through this fandom. This message board is the only place that they all congregate regularly and so if I want to have discussions with friends beyond the scope of fanfic and the show, this is the best, if not only, place to do so. And often in the process I make more friends as I realize that someone whose fic tastes don't match mine does have similar movie tastes or restaurant tastes or political ideas or shares a great recipe that I want to make or whatever. None of those have to do with Lois and Clark or the show or the fanfic and by your logic, all would have to be banned.

Bethy (speaking as self, not as a mod)

C_A, not that I doubt your statement at all, please don't take this that way - but could you provide an example or two? I don't remember that happening, but it could be that I just didn't notice or since it didn't bother me, I didn't take note. The only thing I can think of would be Shayne's Veritas, but it had quite a bit of politics in it so it makes sense that politics might be discussed in the FDK folders, but beyond that...

As for the second statement, wouldn't that also apply to movies and baby high heels and weather related topics as well? Or for that matter, Lois and Clark related NON fic stuff? These are the FIC boards, after all. There's plenty of discussion of the show itself on the other boards. Do you think it would it be better to just take out the entire OT section since very little there has even the most tenuous connection to Lois and Clark? And the show forum as there's other places it can be discussed. Productions maybe even though they're not *fic* because there isn't much of another place to post/discuss them. I guess I'm not following the logic of 'if it's not related to the show or there's other places to discuss it, take it out' because that would apply to 1/3 or more of the boards.

I know that's taking it to the extreme, but isn't that the risk you run when you censor just about anything? Whether it's religion and politics or anything else? The only 'censorship' I know of on the boards, is gossip about the lives of the actors [and G/L fic because it's not L/C fic and could be construed as gossip] but even then posts discussing movies, TV shows or other works by those actors [mainly Teri and Dean] are welcome in the OT section, as long as it doesn't stray into gossip. When you start excluding one area, where do you stop? They say never to discuss religion, politics or sex, but that would take out the whole Nfic section as well and I'm quite certain that would start an uproar. When it dissolves into flaming and so on, then yes, politics or religion or whatever else should be kept in check, but on a thread by thread or even post/er by post/er basis, but to ban it all together seems a bit much TO ME.

Just more of my .02 .

Carol

Carol, you make an interesting point here. If politics were to be censored on this forum...would that just be in the OT folder? Or would we have to then ban any story which touched on a political theme, such as Veritas (and many others over the years) and any feedback posts on such a story which included political comments?

We've never been a forum which stamps down hard on thread drift - like some forums out there do to differing degrees. I would hate to have to start policing feedback threads, ready to step in and call a halt in case the legitimate discussion of a theme in a story just might lead to a political discussion.


LabRat

I would prefer not to name names, which I would have to do if I were to give examples. It's just something that's happened in the past and that I found frustrating. These days, I bite my tongue instead of replying with a snarky remark and move on.

The major difference I see between politics and, say, baby shoes is that politics and religion are two topics people feel most strongly about, while they probably don't get very emotional or upset about baby shoes. There is a certain truth to the saying that if you want to stay friends with someone you should stear clear of discussing politics or religion with them .

Please realize that this is just my own opinion and most people here don't seem to mind politics on the boards. Honestly, it's not that big of a deal. I don't participate that much anymore anyway, so it doesn't really matter to me .

Since most of it is US politics I just don't bother to read these threads. Come to that, I probably wouldn't read a threat on British politics, unless it looked really silly...

That's almost a given really, isn't it?

LabRat

The clowns have been running the circus here for many years. We've got Boris Bozo as mayor of London and Gordon Bozo as Prime Minister, and a whole load of other bozos in the cabinet and running the opposition parties.

The funny thing is that a surprising amount of current law (and often the most sensible bits) can be traced back to old manifestos of the Monster Raving Loony Party, who put up joke candidates at many elections.

I like the opportunity to be able to talk about politics on the boards. It gives me a way to organize the information I come across. I tend to read more than participate outside of the boards.

What I try to remind myself when I write a post about politics in this fraught climate is to acknowledge my position and try to leave space for other claims outside my worldview (for instance, by presenting where the facts I find important come from and strictly defining my terms as much as I can). I tend to focus on the arguments (rhetoric, how something is presented/said) more than deep beliefs, since disputing people's beliefs tends not to lead to good places. I think looking at arguments and realizing when we reach a common ground and which are places of fundamental disjunction (where terms take a different meaning depending on your position) is a really good exercise.

alcyone

To the great surprise of no one, I think political threads are fine. We're all adults here, and really the discussions have been very civil. As Alcyone said, it's a good way to find common ground, as well. I know I've learned a lot.

These boards have always been very much opposed to flame-wars, and I totally agree with that policy. Some topics are more challenging than others, but still.

I must admit, there have been a few times when I've been so stressed by discussions that I've stayed away from the boards altogether. Still, I don't think banning the topic is a good way to deal with that.

For some reason, that reminds me of the joke about a church wanting to ban sex, because it could lead to dancing.

PJ

I chose "They're OK", mainly because even if I do think these are sensitive topics and I don't participate much because is mainly US politics, so far I've seen that most of the FoLCs that actively participate have a civilized discussion,stating their POV but not trying to persuade the other into seeing things their way.

Maybe sometimes the discussion might have gotten too 'hot' but the participants or this board(or Zoom's) moderator has been able to control things. At least that's the impression I have of the L&C boards.

So while the people that's interested in discussing politics is capable to be civilized, I think they're OK.

I mean, that's somewhat encouraging the freedom of thought and expression,right? We could have different POVs about any subject but also we should be free to voice them and be sure to *respect* the other person when expressing their's.

Carolyn

C_A wrote:
I've heard that saying a lot during my life. And I think it's just as invalid as saying "you can't legislate morality." Every time any lawmaking body passes a law regulating the behavior of its members, it is a statement that the action being legislated against is contrary to the public good. That in and of itself is a moral statement, and is done by every legislative body in the world, from the US Congress to the local writers group.

If I can't speak my opinion in front of my friend without ruining our friendship, that friendship doesn't go very deep. Friends don't have to have the same beliefs and opinions, because if that's your criteria for friendship you won't have very many.

Please note that I do NOT believe that beating my friend about the head and shoulders with my political or religious beliefs is a good thing. In that case, I would indeed be pushing my friend away, and that would be wrong.

But simply stating what I believe and then listening to my friend's response is, I believe, perfectly valid. And unless my friend's response threatens me ("All Republicans should be interned!" or "All Democrats should be shot on sight!") there's no reason to allow it to ruin the friendship. No one has all the information on any subject, and I'm willing to listen to what others have to say.

However, I also ask that others be willing to listen to what I have to say. If anyone isn't willing to listen, then I won't say anything to you about that subject. But if you refuse to listen to me - or to anyone else with an opinion which differs from yours - you risk never developing friendships deep enough to stand such strain. And those are the friendships which can last a lifetime.

Well, we seem to be split - ETA 25 Sept: less evenly now than we were the first time I compiled these votes:

21 in favour Edited to add in additional votes
14 neutral Edited to add in additional votes
16 against Edited to add in additional votes
1 'other'

The moderators have discussed this topic privately, as we indicated on one of the political threads. Thus far we see no reason to intervene, unless we see flaming or other inappropriate behaviour which contravenes board rules. As we've said, the current threads haven't even come close to breaching rules.

Terry said it best and, while it's a personal view, I think we can all learn from it:
However, we do want to emphasise that, as moderators, we want to hear if board members are unhappy, feeling intimidated or believe they've been flamed. Don't just moan about it in private or post on your blog; tell us. We can't read every thread all the time, though we do pay closer attention to any we know could be controversial. Talk to us. Maybe we won't agree that a particular thread should be closed or a particular topic banned, but we do want to know what members think, and to see if we can reach some sort of accommodation.

Thank you to everyone who's expressed their opinion, and please feel free to add a comment if you haven't yet.


Wendy
Boards Administration Team

I don't post a lot here, but I love lurking and reading when I have the time. I have no problem at all with the political threads. I have seen it get out of hand on other boards, but here...well, "here" is completely different.

This board is like no other I have ever belonged to. The people that come here are some of the best people I've ever met and certainly among the most polite. I've seen highly touchy subjects debated with a cheerfulness and maturity that's almost unbelieveable. The "hottest" replies I have read are polite compared to other places I've been.

So, long story short, I vote that political threads are fine here, because the people that post on this board have the maturity to handle them and frankly, the intelligence that makes them a joy to read. I've learned more things here than many political forums I've visited. And I think the main reason for this is that on political sites you only get one side while here you see a topic debated from both sides in an intelligent manner and I think I gain a more balanced view of what the "truth" really is on a given matter.

Just my 2 cents.

In truth it doesn't bother me which is what I voted however, I try to keep my mouth shut in terms of my opinions towards political candiates and such because I know I can be extremely confrontational about it.

I enjoy reading other peoples opinions because we all have our opinions.

Discussing politics on forums doesn't particularly interest me, but a good debate can be fun!

Sadly I'm a Politics major, so I'm sick of them lol!

Updating the totals:

25 in favour of continuing to allow politics discussions here
14 neutral
18 against
1 'other'

So still fairly split, but the majority in favour of continuing the status quo.

We will continue to monitor the situation, though, including keeping an eye on discussion generally, and strongly encourage anyone who feels that discussion has become personal or offensive to let us know, either by PMing or emailing a mod or by using the report post button.

Of course, once the US Presidential election is over, I expect that the subject will die down for a bit, so if you really hate these threads you only have to keep your head down for another few weeks.


Wendy
Boards Administration Team