Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls How familiar are you with the Lord of the Rings?

LabRat wrote:
That's quite understandable. Tolkien sometimes gets carried away with his descriptions and can carry on ad nauseum about things for dozens of pages. There are as many pages about Bilbo's birthday party as there are years under his belt. So for those who have trouble getting past the first couple of chapters, I suggest skimming or skipping the birthday party, paying attention only to the part when Bilbo starts to give his speech. Once you get past the birthday party, the action begins.

As for a happy ending, it's all a matter of opinion.

SPOILERS below for those who haven't read the books.

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I would say that the ending of Return of the King was rather depressing. Frodo tires of life and decides to take Arwen's seat on the ship to the undying lands. You have Elrond, Galadriel, Gandalf, Bilbo, etc. all leaving Middle Earth, leaving it to the younger races. I wouldn't necessarily call that a happy ending.

Good things do happen to some of the characters, though. Gimli and Legolas go exploring all over Middle Earth. Aragorn, or Elessar Telcontar, marries his love and lives to a ripe old age. Sam gets married and has children.

But the ending, itself, was rather depressing with Sam coming home after riding back alone from the Grey Havens.

And on the matter of some of the major characters dying, note I haven't seen the third movie yet, but some do die. We already witnessed the death of Boromir. Denethor, who we haven't met yet, and King Theoden do die, while Faramir, Merry, Eowyn almost die in the books.

) And I understand that Denethor will be completely robbed of any nobility in RotK, too.

I was willing to overlook the more minor details that were changed for cinematic reasons, like Arwen replacing Glorfindel. (Her grandma took down Sauron's BOSS with one hand tied behind her back. She should be able to handle some wraiths. ) I was awed by how gorgeous New Zealand apparently is, and how much so much of it looked just as I'd always pictured M-e. The music, especially in FotR, was absolutely phenomenal. But characterization is soooo off it makes me cringe. It was so much worse in Two Towers that I dread to think what RotK is going to be like.

I will be fair, though; some characterization was dead-on. Aragorn as Strider, Sam, Gandalf (except for the fatherly hugs), Eowyn, Grima Wormtongue, Boromir, the background hobbits, and Eowyn, who was so good she deserves to be mentioned twice, too.

Regarding crushes on Aragorn vs Faramir, Pam: Hey, Faramir belongs to Eowyn. (I wonder if that will even get into the movie... sigh.) And I always rooted for the Lady of the Shield-Arm. Arwen was always remote enough that my crush on Aragorn didn't get in her way.

I will add, for the non-fantasy lovers, that I don't read LotR for the fantasy aspect, but for the wonderful characters you get to know, the grand themes (maturity through both joy and sorrow, the inevitability of things changing and leaving, the power of hope, and a few other religious aspects I'll keep to myself ), and the fascination with how neatly and beautifully Tolkien created an entire world. Like Annie with the Superman aspect of LnC, the magical bits are merely window dressing for me.

Ooh, this is getting my all nostalgic. Maybe I'll pull out my ISIS CDs and listen to one of my favorite chapters when I go to sleep tonight...

Hazel, who saw the EE of FotR in the summer and thinks the actor who played a very good Celeborn should sue for having his entire part cut out of the cinematic version

EDIT: Roger went in and posted his own megillah while I was composing this one! So I'll just add this: no, RotK doesn't have a wholly happy ending, but it does have a realistic happy ending, which is one reason I like it so much. Eowyn and Faramir, and Aragorn and Arwen, find happiness (A&A get 120 years of married bliss); Frodo finds release and solace when Arwen gifts him with her ticket, so to speak, to Valinor. Sam, Pippin, and Merry lead long and happy lives, and Legolas and Gimli remain close friends till the end (or possibly even afterwards, according to the appendix). As for the elves leaving: well, that's interwoven throughout the entire book. The Third Age ends, a new age begins. It's not as if they're dying; they're simply going somewhere else, where they'll have to spend a lot of time composing songs to alleviate the boredom of immortality.

And Roger, Sam *isn't* alone when he rides back; Gandalf made sure Merry and Pippin would be there for him, and he *is* returning to his wife and daughter. Personally, I think Sam's final line in the book is one of the best endings to a novel I've ever read.

"Well, I'm back."

I haven't read the other posts, in order to avoid the spoilers that may exist.

As I love reading, I have these books in my 'to be read' list. The problem is that I haven't had much time to do it, and I hate reading, say, one chapter a day, so I've left it for whenever I have lots of spare time to read them and enjoy them.

I haven't watched the movies either - they'd spoil the book for me.

Interesting poll
See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Well, yes, sort of seriously. I know it's been said by many, but take a look at the task in front of this director. Take a book of nearly 1,000 pages - some 1/2 million words - and beloved by legions of people all over the world and compress it down into three movies that, in order to be even remotely successful, must somehow conform to the loosest of movie industry norms.

Just looking at length alone, they faced an impossible task. How can you delve into the pasts and events that make the characters who they are when you can barely get people to sit still for three hours, let alone for three hours at three different times. Even now people are complaining about the length of ROTK and the fact that a meager 20-minute epilogue keeps people in their seats after the final climactic battle scenes.

So what's a poor guy to do?

I'm not a Tolkein purist. For that matter, I'm not a Superman purist. Which brings me to an interesting parallel. I'm sure that many a Superman comic fan cringed every week IF they even watched Lois and Clark, for I'm sure that it strayed far from canon when necessary to make for good TV. But still, I'm sure that there are Superman purists out there who found enough true to form to enjoy it for what it was - a great TV show that explored the lives of Lois and Clark and that other guy, Superman.

I don't mind when artists take a bit of creative license with a story in order to present it in a new way that might interest me. I'd even go so far as to say that I'm thankful I'm not a purist because I would hate to hate these movies. Yes, I would have serious issues if it were Sam tossing that ring into Mt. Doom while Aragorn stood by and watched and Gandalf and Sauron sat down to discuss their issues over a cup of tea, but for the most part, I think I got a good feel for who these characters were and what part in the story they played and felt none the poorer if I didn't get to see every facet of their personalities.

And if Peter Jackson played a little loose with characterizations, at least give him the credit of creating scores of thousands, if not hundreds of thousands, of new LOTR fans - me being one of them. Without his movies, I would never have picked up the books.

So in the end, I will buy my ticket, sit back in my seat with my super-sized diet Coke and bucket-o-corn, shed a few tears, cheer and jeer, and marvel at the story I'm being shown, just as I did when I read the books.

Lynn

I'm an 'other'. I'm ambivalent about LotR. My Mum read me the Hobbit when I was little, which I seem to remember enjoying tremendously, but I never got interested in the other books. I missed watching the first film at the cinema, so now I kind of feel I've missed the boat. I don't think they'd be the same on a small portable TV, somehow, so I haven't rented the DVDs. Plus, I heard the second film featured two armies fighting each other, which didn't exactly thrill me, and all the clips I've ever seen seem to feature long-haired men - can't stand long hair on men <vbg>. One of these days I'll probably end up watching the films, but I'm not rushing.

Yvonne

Oh, my lord, Lynn, I'm about to fall over laughing at that mental image! Thanks!

PJ

Just this morning I read an article that I think really clarifies what I was trying to explain in my post a few steps back. It is written by someone who didn't automatically love FoTR and TTT, so it seems like a fairly realistic viewpoint going in.

Take a look - I don't think it contains any spoilers that would ruin the movie, but if you want to go see RoTK a complete spoiler-virgin, you may not want to read it.

FoTK Review at theonering.net

See ya at the movies.
Lynn

Thanks, Lynn, that was an interesting perspective.

I also ran across something, on my favorite satire-news site...
\'Rings\' Fans Awed by Sequel\'s Car Chase Scene



PJ

That was priceless, Pam! I still have tears streaming down my face!!

Thanks for the great laugh.
Lynn

Don't let that put you off, Yvonne. <G> I'm usually bored rigid by that kind of thing too, but the direction on that epic battle was so superb I was rivetted to my chair throughout and actually yelled out 'No, don't let them get through!' at one climatic moment, embarrassing myself mightily. <G> Luckily I was on my own and not in the cinema. My heart was in my throat all the way through.

LabRat

LabRat wrote:
Sounds familiar! I've tried a couple of times. I guess I'm a lazy reader; I have to read too much inpenetrable text for work. I'm not going to do it for pleasure! And I do remember LotR being quite impenetrable.

Also, like Annie, I'm not a fan of fantasy... as a general rule. I have read one or two things, and I've been let down by books that others have strongly recommended to me.

I had to think about what it was about fantasy that doesn't appeal, and I came up with the following. I am quite happy for the stories I read to have elements of the fantastic to them, but I would like them to have at least a toe-hold of a relationship to reality.

That's why I can cope with Superman and the occasional other superhero. It's also why I loved Matt Ruff's 'Fool On The Hill' when I read it. And it helps to explain why I am also besotted with young Mr Potter.

H'm. Maybe I have a lazy imagination, too!

I used to go past Sarehole Mill very regularly on the number 11 bus when I was living in Birmingham. Can't quite remember the significance of that; was it Tolkein's childhood home or where he wrote the books? Whatever, it did reinforce both my view that I should read the books and the guilt I feel that I haven't.

I think I'm going to continue to live with the guilt, though. There are plenty of other Great Books that I haven't read that I'd like to read first. (Now, where is my Complete Works of Charles Dickens? )

Incidentally, I gather that LotR is, according to the BBC's Big Read, the UK's favourite novel. I was quite shocked by that result. Then again, I was pleasantly surprised when my personal favourite had managed to make it into slot number 44!

Chris

LOL, seems you're not alone, Chris. It raised a few eyebrows and started a lot of grumbling from various quarters about how this was supposed to be a quest to find Britain's best book and how it only got to no. one on the back of some multi-million dollar publicity for the movies.

I'm not sure how I feel about that one myself. I think it's probably true that a chunk of votes did come from people who've never even read the books, but only seen the movies - which as the grumblers note rather defeats the purpose of the entire exercise. But I tend to also think that those who have read the books adore them and are not shy about saying so. Or voting so.

So I guess we'll never know whether it got in by default or not.

I hear that the exercise was a roaring success though with book sales and library checkouts of all of the shortlisted books rising by a massive percentage. Way to go!

LabRat

I voted for "haven't read the books but have enjoyed the movies." Also, we play a couple different versions of role playing games. My hubby has read all three books about 40 times and he has ALL of the other books released before and after Tolkien died. I've given up on trying to buy books for him. Every time I find one that I don't recognize, he's already got it.

Now that the third movie is out, we'll probably see it this weekend (Craig saw it last night and can't wait to see it again) and then I'll finally read all three books. When I wrote The Forgotten Folk , this conversation was based on Craig and me...

Ok I have read the books. They are my favorite all time books and yes I want to be burried with them! I fell in love with Tolkien's world in 9th grade when I was asigned the Hobbit for a class reading. Since then I have purchased at least 4 sets over time of the trilogy and a couple of the Hobbit. I read them every fall. I may have missed a few years but I think I have read them about 30 times. I love fantasy, but I have enjoyed few books, well no other books, the way I have the LOTR. Lothlorien is my dream place and my favorite part of the book. Like watching Its A wonderful Life every Christmas, reading LOTR every fall is like visiting old friends.

If I could have met anyone in the world living or deceased, Tolkien would be on my list next to Titian and Van Gogh. I have also read the Silmarilian but that was more like muddling through the Bible. It is by all accounts Tokiens Bible. I have audio tapes and have seen the few cartoon versions as well, including Ralph Bashki's version. That started out good then fizzled half way.

So far I think the movies are pretty good for effects and filming location. I think the characters for the most part, are done fairly well. Though Frodo should be a young 50, Sam I didn't picture like that at all, but Legolas, Gimli, Gandalf and Aragorn were all pretty good. Boromir was also well done, but Faramir so far is a big dissapointment. Also I don't like what they did with Merry and Pippin.

I wish they stayed with the story and didn't veer off from the books as much as they did. But I am still enjoying them somewhat. I give the director credit for attempting such a HUGE job. I wish I could have been part of the backdrop in the film. Too bad I live on the other side of the world<g> Anyway, I wonder if there are many fans as big of a fan as I am. Oh and I do own a ring<g> Laura