Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Question for Batman fans/Oscar enthusiasts

I have been reading a lot of pre-Oscar coverage and predictions and "The Dark Knight" has come up a lot, both for its omission in the Best Picture category, and for Heath Ledger's nomination for Best Supporting Actor.

I know there have been some rumblings about whether summer movies got snubbed/forgotten about (since all of the Best Picture nominees came out in the fall/winter) and also that while Heath did an amazing job as the Joker, it's hard to compare a character in a movie like TDK to one in a more serious movie and therefore he may have gotten, for lack of a better way of putting it, a sympathy nom.

I haven't seen the movie myself, so I was curious what fans think.

I think many of the high special effects movies get snubbed for Oscars because they are such a large part of the movie, that they became the movie. While I really liked the movie I don't think it was worthy of a best picture Oscar.

About Heath Ledger. Yes he was good as the Joker but I don't think he deserves an Oscar nomination for it. To me he just wasn't that good. I think a lot of times when an actor dies suddenly and under tragic conditions that they get elevated on a pedestal. Add to the fact that they were young and the reaction is even greater. Heath Ledgers death was a shame(not tragic) and I'm tired of hearing about these "tragic" deaths in the entertainment industry because these people are to stupid to realize that they are playing Russian Roulette with their lives. Face it we all know that you do drugs sooner or later your going to die.

Considering all the information put in front of us daily the dangers of drugs is no secret, plus with all the deaths from drug problems that have been publized it just isn't a secret that DRUGS WILL KILL YOU. So I have to say I have no sympathy for Heath Ledger being STUPID and abusing drugs. There is nothing anyone can say that will make me think differently. I do feel sorry for his family because I'm sure they have a lot of anger directed towards him for playing with his life like he did with drugs.

So no I don't think he deserves the Oscar and hope he doesn't get it.

I thought Heath did an outstanding job! I do feel that he deserves the Oscar nomination, and I hope he gets it. But I also feel that if he does get it, it will be the "sympathy" thing that you were talking about. I thought his performance was great, and I have always thought he was a great actor. Unfortunetly, it is difficult to tell if the feelings would be the same if he were still alive, or if it is because he died too young.

I also just have to add, kmar, I completely understand your opinions on drugs as I agree. However, I have to disagree with one thing that you said... All the drugs that he had in his system were prescribed medications, he didn't abuse them, he took all the doses as prescribed but it was the mixture of all the different medications he was on, that did it, they didn't mix well with his body chemistry. If I remember correctly his doctors were investigated to find out why he was given all of them at the same time. So it is not like he died of a cocain overdose, that is completely different situation.

I think the unfortunate thing is that given the industry's predilection towards sympathy votes, we'll never know whether he won it on merit or because he died. I haven't seen the movie so I've no idea whether his performance was deserving or not.

I have to agree with LoveLandC. I understand that Ledger died from an accidental overdose of prescription medication. I, too, have very little sympathy for the likes of Amy Winehouse, Pete Docherty et al, who take the extreme good fortune that life has handed them and flush it away with drugs and other harmful excesses. But Ledger doesn't seem to have been in this category.

ETA - I see that LoveLandC appears to have more up to date info than I have - I haven't been paying much attention to be honest - and that the verdict now appears to be that there was no overdose.

LabRat

I don't think TDK got snubbed in the Best Picture category. Having seen that film, and all five nom'd for Best Picture, I can say with absolute certainty (disregarding my feelings about Batman, and speaking as a film/Oscar enthusiast) that the others definitely deserve to be there.

That being said, that doesn't mean TDK isn't a good film. It's a great film. It just means that the ones that got nominated are better. But really, are you surprised? No superhero film has ever been nominated for Best Picture. Sci-fi/Fantasy/Supernatural films rarely get the Academy's attention. In the last 50 years there have only been a handful recognized, including Star Wars, the Lord of the Rings trilogy, Raiders of the Lost Ark, E.T., Ghost, The Sixth Sense, and perhaps a couple others I could be missing. And of all those films, NONE of them have actually won, with the exception of Lord of the Rings: Return of the King. And when you take into account that there are roughly five films nominated every year, that list I gave is really just a small handful.

As far as Heath Ledger goes, I'm not going to comment on the circumstances surrounding his death because it's not relevant. But in regards to the movie, it's possible that his death may have had a small part in him being nominated, but I really don't think so. I firmly believe that he would have been nominated anyway, even if he hadn't passed away because he really did give a fantastic performance. I mean, yes it takes place during a superhero film, but the man plays a deranged homicidal sociopathic maniac. How is that different than Anthony Hopkins being nominated (and winning) for playing Hannibal Lecter in Silence of the Lambs? Plus, Heath has been recognized by the Academy before, so it's not like he was a regular, run-of-the-mill, B-list actor that suddenly became popular after his death. If that were the case, then I'd be suspicious.

I haven't seen the Batman movie, but I think Ledger put in an extremely fine performance in Brokeback Mountain.

I know nothing about the exact cause of his death. I would like to point out, however, that it is possible to take far too many drugs even if they have been prescribed to you. It has been reported that Elvis took no less than about 5,000 pills, all properly prescribed by his doctor, during the last week of his life.

Ann

Now what I'm saying after this is no reflection on Heath Ledger. I don't know much about the circumstances of his death and so this IS not any kind of judgement. It's just something that I think we should all be aware of. As a nurse that's worked with addicted patients, I find more patients addicted to prescription medications than things like cocaine and heroin. Saying that that is 'different' only adds to the problem. Some people can't face the fact that they are addicted because the meds are 'prescribed' to them. One of the worse drugs to be addicted to is oxycontin and it is a prescribed drug. Prescription drugs are also sold on the street. And again, I'm not saying this was the case with Heath Ledger because I don't know.

I have seen the movie and I thought Heath Ledger did a great job, but I don't think it was particularly Oscar worthy. I don't think he did any better of a job than Jack Nicholson.

Ledger gave a great performance. Too bad the movie sucked otherwise. As for the Oscar/Death issue, I think he would have been nominated, no matter what.

And that's my two cents....

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to imply an addiction to prescription drugs is different than any other drug, an addiction is an addiction and just as dangerous if not more so with prescriptions. What I meant, was that the situations are different, as he took the prescriptions in the doses as they were prescribed by his doctors. He didn't take more, so it drives me crazy when I see reports saying it was an overdose, becuase he didn't.

Yes, I knew what you were saying, LoveLandC, I just felt that as a professional who has worked with drug addicted patients that I needed to mention that people can get addicted to prescription drugs.

So did Heath Ledger die from an allergic reaction? I just wonder if some people are saying he overdosed when in fact it was an overdose but was an accident - not intentional.

After seeing the movie this summer (at LAFF w/ some awesome Folcs ), I decided that Heath definitely deserved the nomination. Before I saw it, I was kind of annoyed that there was talk of him being nominated because I thought that it was only because of sympathy votes. Now I can't say he deserves to win because I haven't seen some of the other roles that are up for the Oscar but he definitely deserves the nomination.

Like Labby said, unfortunately we won't ever really know if he would have won the Oscar had he still been alive. If he does win it, there will always be speculation that it was because of sympathy votes. Still, it was an amazing performance.

I'm not surprised it wasn't nominated for Best Picture though. It was definitely one of the best films of the year but I just couldn't see it getting nominated. Like Trin said, it's not very often that a Sci Fi/Fantasy/Supernatural movie gets nominated for Best Pic. I mean, Star Wars didn't even win Best Pic and it TOTALLY deserved it IMAO.

I only got round to watching TDK last night - decided to have a night off writing and watched that and Hellboy 2 back to back.

I was impressed by the film as a whole. It's much more faithful to the later comics than any of the other recent films - the original Batman was about the last to get it right - and I thought that Ledger played a better Joker than Jack Nicholson. I just hope that they can keep up the quality if they make more.

There's always likely to be a sympathy vote when someone dies, especially if they've just delivered a pretty good performance, but in that case I think it may have been deserved.

I think it must have been an allergic reaction, because something was said about his body chemistry reacting to the medications. So I think an allergic reaction would probably be the closest to describe it. They do call it an accidental overdose though, and I suppose that's what bothers me most, because it does have those negative conotations.

Heath Ledger did indeed win an Oscar for his portrait of the Joker.

Ann