Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Two links and some change on constructive criticism

So going through my blogroll, I came across two posts that examine the idea of "constructive criticism" in fandom. I think a while back there was a thread on what fdk authors want, but these postings made me think of fdk from the reader's POV.

The first, Why Most "Concrit" Isn\'t Helpful argues just that. Key snippet:

Another interesting view can be found probaby in the comments (but I have little patience with expanding threads on lj) or in Readers with Credentials (this is replying to something else, but I think it's somewhat relevant). Key snippet here:

Both made me think about how I fdk. I wouldn't consider my fdk as "constructive criticism." Usually, I fdk with my knee jerk reaction to something, not really looking at whether the writing "works" or not (which of course another can of worms). If my fdk does cross into concrit ("this worked/did not work for me because X"), it's rare and largely incidental. However, I do think that fdk is helpful even if there is no concrit, simply because it encourages the writer to keep writing and that in itself makes a difference IMO. Not that I'm that altruistic while I fdk. Clearly I'm more interested in my enjoyment than being any help to anyone .

There's a lot more to be said here, but to open this up, to whoever is bored and wants to add their .02--as a *reader* (of the archive and/or the boards), do you consider your fdk "constructive criticism"? Do you think it's helpful to the writer?

alcyone

I'm terrible at feedback. I'm sure the majority of my comments are more like white noise to writers. However, I operate under the assumption that anything is better than nothing, so I try to leave feedback regularly, even if isn't very helpful.

I think the public forum is the place for the things you liked about a story. The things you didn't like should be addressed in private, unless they are very minor and easily corrected.

Things like pointing out plot holes, mistakes in facts and things like that can be very helpful, if embarrassing. These are questions of method...and method is what learning to be a better writer is all about.

Things like objecting to someone's politics, though, is less effective. It might be ok to ask if they were intending to convey a certain message with their story. Maybe they didn't. Things like theme and subtext can be unconscious in the writing process.

But if you don't like the message they are sending, then criticizing them isn't going to be very helpful. It's like criticizing someone's politics or religeon...they'll get defensive, and you probably won't agree.

Of course, positive expressions of what you'd like to see in the future parts of the story are more helpful. Sometimes they can spark ideas in the author that he hadn't thought of before.

Sometimes the author was already planning on what you are asking for, so then he or she can be inordinately pleased with themselves. <g>

But overall, major criticisms of a story are a little like having a boss criticize your job performance.

You might do better in the future, but you'd much better hear it in private.

That's my take anyway.

My feedback is very rarely constructive unless I'm beta-reading. I simply tell the author that I enjoyed the story. (Speaking of which, how expansive I am in my detailing my enjoyment is 95% due to my mood, available time and laziness factor at that moment, not how good the fic is! Just in case anybody wondered why Lisa sometimes gives a one-liner and sometimes writes a novella. ) If I didn't enjoy it, then I don't leave FDK at all - not that I properly could anyway, because if I wasn't enjoying it, I probably didn't finish it.

There are a few reasons I don't give concrit.

First, usually by the time an author gets to the point of posting their story, it's done. I know that mine are beat to death by that point, and I've put in every drop of blood, sweat, tears, opinion, love and whatever that I can generate, and I don't care to revisit it. I just want to hear that my readers liked it and why. I tend to assume other authors feel the same.

Second, in order for me to give constructive feedback, I have to really get down into a fic and wallow in it: read it two or three times, go back and reread previous chapters, if any, let it sit in my brain and marinate for a while, and then go back read it a final time. I don't have the time and mental energy to do that very often.

Third, I suffer from "what if I offend him/her" syndrome. I doubt my ability to state a negative or weakness in a way that is friendly and helpful.

Fourth, and this is probably the biggest one - Unless I'm beta-reading, I approach fanfic strictly from the standpoint of reading enjoyment. It's escapism. I don't go into the story thinking, how can I help this person strengthen their writing skills or this particular story? My mind isn't even in the right place to formulate concrit. It's limited to waffy squees and horrified omg-Lois-is-in-peril gasps. These are gratifying to many authors, but not exactly helpful!

As a reader, I'll post FDK that mostly consists of.. um.. gushing. Or all these really silly things that go through my head while I'm reading something -- usually not concrit at all, just things that I feel like saying and will generally amuse (or at least, I like to think it will). Something that'll let the writer know I laughed at this or that, that something made me smile, that something else brought tears to my eyes... you know... it's not concrit, but it probably lets the writer know where they hit the spot.

If I see typos or blatant errors, I won't leave them in an FDK thread, I'll send a PM instead.

Concrit, I'll usually do in beta. That's what you expect of a beta, anyway, right? Or at least, that's what I would expect of one of mine, so...

Now, as a *writer*, I like every piece of FDK - no matter how big or small. Just knowing that a story's been read and appreciated is wonderful. It's immensely encouraging. Sure concrit is useful, and I will personally consider it no matter who it's from, but even a "good work!" is really appreciated. And if you want to point out what you liked, what you were thinking and you feel like making silly comments in your FDK, you'll have this slightly nutty fangirl giggling and clapping as she reads it.

I notice that I post more concrit that most responders, but then, I'm a writing teacher. However, I usually ignore typos or mechanical errors like punctuation. I also try to balance any criticism with a lot of gushing, so it doesn't seem too much like a boss pulling you aside in public.

As a writer, the only thing I've posted on fic boards was my rawest rough draft. In fact, I often posted without even having read through the thing. As a result, I asked my readers specific questions about how certain things were working and often changed the draft based on their comments. (If you're interested in what a group crit from a variety of readers looks like, log onto Zoom's nfic forum, do a search for posts by echo, and read the FDK threads for Act 1-Act 4.)

Most often, though, I post concrit when a writer mentions not working with a beta because I know how helpful it is to get a reader's view of the story.

My fdk depends entirely on my time constraints, which I can't believe have seized up so badly this spring.( I'm staying on top of everything, but it doesn't leave me with a lot of pure free time these days.)

I generally use feedback for two purposes. If you take the time to write a story, and I read it, I want you to know that I read it and what I liked about it. I've had this conversation with a couple of people, and if you just wrote solely for yourself, you wouldn't bother posting it. (Well, I'm not sure what I'd do with mine. Maybe paste it to my back door or something <g>.) Anyway, I want you to first know that your time and talents are very appreciated. I'm with Lisa in that I simply enjoy reading. This place is so great for a break when I need to unwind!

The second purpose of my feedback is discussion. It really just depends on the author and what particular points of interest their dialogue or descriptions might spark for me, but there have been several stories that have been especially enjoyable because of the feedback discussions they've started. One of CC's stories sticks out in my mind just because several of us spent so much darn time talking about it and the topics it presented. It's a wonder I got anything done those months LOL. And with many longer stories, I notice when people make a point of saying, "Wow, so-n-so's comment really impacted this part of my story when I edited it," and so it's just nice to know that our discussions can sometimes be helpful...you never know what might come out of it!

But basically unless you specifically ask how you can make it better (which I do from time to time!), I'm not going to outright say anything. You wrote it; you should be proud of what you worked hard on, so I'm going to tell you what I like about what I see, not what it could be.

JD

If I liked something in particular I will always point that out. I will also always tell someone when I loved their story.

Very rarely (unless you have asked me to beta) will I tell you if there is something I don't like and only if I think you are a person who can take it.

Then again the last time I did it I ended up feeling ungrateful and terrible about even bringing it up. I still feel bad for telling that person that I didn't like it as much as their other stories. I still loved the story but I'm not sure I conveyed that well enough.

So I pretty much keep my mouth shut now unless I'm asked to beta and even then I tell people that I'm going to tell them exactly what I like and dislike before taking it on.

I don't think I ever gave criticism on a story in my fdk. Most of the time I just let the author know that I've read their story and that I loved it and what I loved exacly.. and now I'm really happy to read that authors also apprciate that!!

Camy