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#147828 06/22/05 01:32 PM
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lynnm Offline OP
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Since you guys always do such a great job helping me solve my grammar/writing puzzles, I want to throw this out there and get your opinion.

I was never taught this specifically as a no-no, but I'm always loathe to interrupt dialogue with more than one speech tag and/or beat.

For example, I would never write this:

"Hey, Clark," Lois said, "why don't you come over here?" She patted the empty space on the sofa next to her. "I want to chat with you about that red cape I found in your closet."

Instead I would write this:

"Hey, Clark, why don't you come over here?" Lois said, patting the empty space on the sofa next to her. "I want to chat with you about that red cape I found in your closet."

Now, these are very simplistic examples where it is easy to avoid using two interruptions in the dialogue. But sometimes it's not so easy, and this is where I have problems.

Usually, I break up the dialogue into two separate paragraphs.

So instead of this:

"Now, Lois, I can explain," Clark said, remaining on the far side of the room in case she had the urge to hit him. "There's a very good reason Superman's cape was in my closet." Of course, he had no idea what that good reason might be, and his mind whirled as he tried to concoct one. "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?" he said at last with a sheepish grin.

I would do it this way:

"Now, Lois, I can explain," Clark said, remaining on the far side of the room in case she had the urge to hit him. "There's a very good reason Superman's cape was in my closet."

Of course, he had no idea what that good reason might be, and his mind whirled as he tried to concoct one. At last he said with a sheepish grin, "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?"


Again, not that I think the first way is wrong. Just that it looks funny to me.

What do you all think? Does it bother you if dialogue is interrupted more than once for speech tag or action beat?

Lynn


You know that boy'd walk on water for you? Or he'd drown tryin'. -Perry White to Lois in Just Say Noah
#147829 06/22/05 01:38 PM
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Not sure I have a really hard and fast feeling about it, Lynn. But my first instinct for the first example was to do what you did.

Putting 'Lois said' seems superfluous to me, unnecessary. But then, you need to indicate who's speaking, so you have to put Lois in at some point.

Given that, it makes more sense to me to put it the way it's done in the second example - incorporate it into the other speech tag you want to include and kill two birds with one stone.

That's my reasoning anyway. goofy I always like to merge two bits of information whenever possible. <G>

For the second example, it would depend. I've probably written it both ways in the past - it's not something I'm that aware of doing - but it would depend very much on circumstances. How long the paragraph was, how much information I wanted to fit on. And so on.

LabRat smile



Athos: If you'd told us what you were doing, we might have been able to plan this properly.
Aramis: Yes, sorry.
Athos: No, no, by all means, let's keep things suicidal.


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#147830 06/22/05 01:48 PM
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Generally, I'm with you, Lynn. It's harder to read and it looks messy if you mix too much narrative in with dialogue. However, I do use it sometimes as a way of establishing a realistic rhythm between speech and thought processes.

Quote
“Yes, it’s me.” She studied his face, anxious for any clue – any little mannerism that she might recognise. “Clark Kent’s wife.” There, that should give him a clue, even if she wasn’t getting any in return.
Quote
“I...I’m not quite sure.” He replayed the sensation he’d just experienced. “It felt...like someone just threw a bucket of ice-cold water in my face.” He met her gaze, seeing his own concern reflected in her eyes. “What’s going on?”
Quote
“You’ll help best by staying right here,” she retorted. “He needs to go through this – whatever it is – by himself.” When he didn’t respond, she added, “Look, I’ve met him and you haven’t. He’s been through the wringer, granted, so he’s not as strong as you are. I think he’s strong enough, though, and he’ll only get stronger if he fights his own battles.”
I'm open to suggestion on ways to make the above better, of course! I guess you could insert a paragraph break, for example, but that has the disadvantage of creating a bigger/longer break in the speech rhythm. If that makes any sense at all!

Yvonne

#147831 06/22/05 02:08 PM
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I agree with you, Yvonne - I more often than not choose how I write dialogue and speech tags based on wanting to establish a particular rhythm in my head as I 'speak' it to myself as I write.

It's not scientific, but I tend to know what sounds 'right' to me, what has the right rhythm, and go with that.

LabRat smile



Athos: If you'd told us what you were doing, we might have been able to plan this properly.
Aramis: Yes, sorry.
Athos: No, no, by all means, let's keep things suicidal.


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#147832 06/22/05 03:06 PM
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lynnm Offline OP
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What Lab and Yvonne makes sense, and I think that's my problem. When I'm writing, I let the dialogue flow out and often introspection or narrative gets mixed in as a natural progression - kind of like watching a movie when diologue is followed or accompanied by action and then more dialogue, so when written the dialogue becomes very broken.

But when I do this, I always wonder if it looks disjointed. The examples Yvonne supplied don't look like a problem to me. So it might just be that for whatever reason, I have this hangup that comes from nowhere. Clearly other writers do this and readers don't seem to mind it so much.

Any more thoughts?
Lynn


You know that boy'd walk on water for you? Or he'd drown tryin'. -Perry White to Lois in Just Say Noah
#147833 06/22/05 03:12 PM
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I don't know if I really have anything new to add here, except to chime in and say that I know what you mean. I often find myself trying to figure out creative ways to put the thoughts and action into the story at the same time as the dialogue without either element getting chunked up.

In the example you gave, Lynn, I would have made them separate paragraphs like you did. It just seems to make the story and the dialogue flow better.

~Anna

#147834 06/22/05 06:08 PM
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I do have something like this problem. I write as things appear to me in my head, assuming that certain thoughts and actions are as obvious to the reader as they are to me at that moment.

"Of course Lois is walking to the other side of the room when she says that. What else would she possibly be doing?"

"Of course she's happy about what just happened. It's Lois. This is what Lois likes. How else could she react?"

So, I don't bother putting those things in. Then a BR comes along and tells me I've got way too much dialogue and no action or introspection. Oopsie. So I have to go back and figure out how to fit all that stuff into what's already there. It's difficult and its awkward, but sometimes it pays off with a much richer scene.

The thing is that I don't have this problem with multiple interruptions. As a matter of fact, with the first example, I'd probably have stayed with the original version. It immediately identifies the speaker, then it describes her later actions as they happen. The correct information is in the correct place. To me, that's much more desirable than having to stick all the information in one place just to avoid extra interruptions.

I also would not put in an artificial paragraph break just to avoid having too many interruptions in a single paragraph. That break, to me, is an even bigger interruption.

So, for your second example, I'd probably come up with something like this:

Clark warily kept his distance. "Now, Lois, I can explain," he assured her, while inwardly he worked frantically to come up with a way to fulfill that promise. Ultimately, however, he found himself unable to stand against the power of her raised eyebrow. "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?" he asked, smiling sheepishly.

Or:

Clark warily kept his distance. "Now, Lois," he said with what he hoped was calming reassurance, "I can explain." He paused, trying to maintain the facade while his mind frantically worked to back up the promises his mouth was making.

A simple quietly raised eyebrow made the effort futile. The elegantly trimmed onslaught broke the facade, leaving a sheepish but hopeful grin. "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?" he ventured.


Or:

A smiple quietly raised eyebrow made the effort futile. The elegantly trimmed onslaught broke the facade, leaving a sheepish but hopeful grin. "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?" His voice, verging on a squeak, betrayed him; just payment, no doubt, for his mind's failure to hold up its end of the bargain.

I suppose I could go on revising and tweaking here. What I discovered, though, is that the paragraph break, if it needs to be there, is required for the pause in the action, not for the interruption itself. That is, there's an appreciable amount of time which passes between his first and second sentences. He's hesitating. That can call for a paragraph break, and, as shown above, even allow for some action on her part (which is all the more reason for a paragraph break).

If not for that pause, I would almost certainly have left it as a single paragraph.

Now, I've spent far longer playing around with those words than I meant to and I've kind of lost the thread of what I was trying to say. I've also let it get later than I'd intended. So, I'm just going to post this and hope at least some of it makes sense.

Paul


When in doubt, think about penguins. It probably won't help, but at least it'll be fun.
#147835 06/23/05 06:23 AM
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Lynn,
As far as I know, there are no hard and fast rules about placement of dialogue breaks. That's the good news smile1 because it means that you can do whatever feels right for you as the writer. The way you do it, if it's consistent, becomes your personal writing style. If it isn't consistent then I would say you're writing in a style that is appropriate for the particular story. Maybe it's your style, anyway. confused

When I read your first example, I immediately changed it to read the way you changed it. So obviously, you were right laugh .

The second example could go either way. Put the paragraph or section away for a few days and reread it. What does your gut tell you? dizzy Also, a good BR would let you know if it worked in the specific case or not.

gerry

#147836 06/23/05 03:03 PM
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For example, I would never write this:

"Hey, Clark," Lois said, "why don't you come over here?" She patted the empty space on the sofa next to her. "I want to chat with you about that red cape I found in your closet."

Instead I would write this:

"Hey, Clark, why don't you come over here?" Lois said, patting the empty space on the sofa next to her. "I want to chat with you about that red cape I found in your closet."
I must be strange. I like the first way better. It has better flow, IMO.


Quote
Usually, I break up the dialogue into two separate paragraphs.

So instead of this:

"Now, Lois, I can explain," Clark said, remaining on the far side of the room in case she had the urge to hit him. "There's a very good reason Superman's cape was in my closet." Of course, he had no idea what that good reason might be, and his mind whirled as he tried to concoct one. "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?" he said at last with a sheepish grin.

I would do it this way:

"Now, Lois, I can explain," Clark said, remaining on the far side of the room in case she had the urge to hit him. "There's a very good reason Superman's cape was in my closet."

Of course, he had no idea what that good reason might be, and his mind whirled as he tried to concoct one. At last he said with a sheepish grin, "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?"
I prefer the first one here too . . . huh


Do you know the most surprising thing about divorce? It doesn't actually kill you, like a bullet to the heart or a head-on car wreck. It should. When someone you've promised to cherish till death do you part says, "I never loved you," it should kill you instantly.

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#147837 06/24/05 02:50 AM
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I must be strange.
Yes. goofy But you're not the only one; I also liked the first examples better... although I could see the point in the second one that Clark's pause in thought should have a para break for extra emphasis. The counter-argument to that would be that he doesn't really get much time to think, and having it all in one paragraph conveys more of his panic.

On a tangent, I liked this:

Quote
Of course, he had no idea what that good reason might be, and his mind whirled as he tried to concoct one. At last he said with a sheepish grin, "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?"
more than this:
Quote
Of course, he had no idea what that good reason might be, and his mind whirled as he tried to concoct one. "Would you believe Superman and I are having an affair?" he said at last with a sheepish grin.
just because for a joke to have maximum impact, the unexpected part (the affair, in this case) should come at the very end. Adding the sheepish grin after that dilutes the joke. smile [/tangent]

I think it's a style thing, more than anything else. I've been going back over some of my stuff and scratching my head as to why I broke up one perfectly good paragraph into two pieces... <g> I'll be paying more attention to that from now on, so thanks for bringing it up, Lynn!

PJ


"You told me you weren't like other men," she said, shaking her head at him when the storm of laughter had passed.
He grinned at her - a goofy, Clark Kent kind of a grin. "I have a gift for understatement."
"You can say that again," she told him.
"I have a...."
"Oh, shut up."

--Stardust, Caroline K
#147838 06/24/05 03:47 AM
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Adding the sheepish grin after that dilutes the joke.
Not only that, but it very neatly gives us his the way he's replying before we actually read his reply. I'm always struggling with that one.

Yvonne


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