Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Fanon versus Canon

I agree that the dip in the ocean makes sense. For one very big reason. If he was involved in a messy rescue he couldn't guarantee that he would make it home before he had to stop for another rescue. So to me it makes perfect sense that he would take a dip in the nearest body of water to get at least partially cleaned off, ie. the nearest ocean, lake, pond, river probably the bigger the better. Or even have the firemen rinse him off with their hoses, which I believe has been used in a story or two.

Fun discussion, this! I've agreed with some things and disagreed with others... and quite frankly, to this day, I'm often unsure what's canon and what's fanon!

One example I haven't seen yet is the typical fanfic characterization of Jimmy. I was reading fanfic for three years (and writing it for two) before I ever saw my first ep, so I have a slightly bizarre POV of the characters and the show. When I first started watching eps that featured Jimmy, I was surprised to see how much he actually did to help LnC -- and how much they ignored it. I know Tank won't agree with this but that's because the Jimmy Olsen in the comics was truly a waste of oxygen most of the time. But Jimmy gave them clues, passed on crucial bits of information, and was a true friend to both Lois and Clark. Nan Smith is just about the only author who writes a competent Jimmy, and I don't think that's wholly fair -- or in canon.

No, I'm not saying that Jimmy Interruptus didn't exist, or that he couldn't be irritating at times! :rolleyes: But Jimmy Olsen on the show was not the stupid incompetent that so many fanfic authors portray.

Hazel

Question -- a lot of stories have used the idea that Clark can recognize Lois's heartbeat when he hears it, that he could pick her out of a crowd. I love that idea. But I'm wondering if that was ever said or implied on the show? I know he monitored Miranda's heartbeat to detect that she was lying, but I'm not sure the show ever took it any further than that, so I was wondering.

PJ

I used that one in my Caped Fear. I don't recall that aspect of their telepathic 'link' being stated on the show, no.

For me, that one was just a natural evolution born out of the 'link' established in Home Is Where The Hurt Is and just the notion that it seems a natural element for a guy with superhearing to have and use.

Actually, I believe he was both of these characterisations. Yes, he was often the way you portray him, Hazel, but he could also be the bumbling idiot now and then.

Let's not forget that this was the guy who, when left in charge of the Planet, based all of his editorial decisions on the advice of a phoneline fortune teller.

So, I think both portrayals are fairly accurate.

LabRat

Canon or fanon? My only comment is this. If I follow this discussion any farther I'm going to be too paranoid to write.

So, in the interests of warding off writer's block, I'm bowing out and won't be visiting this thread again. I will only state that I'm not going to worry if it's fanon or canon. If it looks right, I'm going to write it and the heck with which it is.


Nan

Well, I'm going to grab onto that with both hands.

Because I have to say, having tried to catch up on all the threads on this subject and in the polls, I'm more confused than when I started.

And I have alternately decided I write nothing but fanon with a sometimes spark of canon purely by kismet. Or that I stick as closely to canon as I know how, and sometimes belly flop over into fanon, hardly feeling the sting.

It's both, I'm certain. Or not. Maybe.

Anyway, I'm going to join Nan at the bar.

On the whole, I don't think too hard. Call it lazy or call it gut-reaction, I have a idea of how these characters *sound* and *feel* to me. It's vague enough I couldn't spell it out on a dare, but it keeps me oriented as I write.

Simple as that. Muddle it up with facts, and I'm in big trouble.

CC

edit: holy cow! this is my 900th post!!

CC, you just write good. So keep doing what you are doing. Don't change a thing.

(And I'm 59 posts ahead of you as of this post. So you'd better speak up.)

Lynn

LOL, Nan. That is how I often feel after these discussions. If I had read one of these threads before writing my first story, I'm not sure I would have ever had the nerve to post. In fact... Hey, Labby, could you send back the story I just submitted to the archives? (just kidding )

I was wondering......I have read in quite a few stories (can't name them off the top of my head) that Clark has a 'reaction', we shall call it, to pasta....is this fanon or canon? It may have been on the series, but I haven't come across it if it was mentioned

Also..I get that canon is a set in stone event and such that happened, my question is does that include comics, movies, etc.. or the specific Lois and Clark series? Someone help me out here

Please don't ridicule the dummy lol

ooh, one I know!

The pasta thing is from the beginning of AKA Superman -- Clark is getting all frisky and says to Lois "you know what pasta does to me" <g>

And yeah, "canon" means the events we saw onscreen, specifically in an episode of L&C. Superman's canon can change radically, depending on what version you're talking about

PJ

Oh Chief.. I do remember that in TOGOM Clark asked Jimmy to call Lois beep and let it ring. At first, I also didn't think it had anything to do with this heartbeat thing, but if he can track down a beep that is like any ordinary beep beeping, I'm sure he can find Lois by tracking down the heartbeats he already knew by heart.

Another thing is...

do we really need to follow cannons or fanons?

Is that what makes our stories trustful and make us give a real description of the characters?

what are they except for being toys for us to play with? and who is to give instructions for how to or not to play with them?

Would my story be badly written if I say that Clark cried or that Lois slept with another man before they got married but already knew each other?

I dont know... Why do we need warning threads for this anyway? arent we here to read any kind of fanfic or just to read the same old script being repeated on and on? (not that i am complaining though. I do love them and cant get tired of them.)

Just questions that came to my mind now... i am not here trying to prove Lex is a good person, okay?

Thanks ChiefPam! Just wondering on those!

I agree with Mad Dog Lane...I don't really have a preferance to canon or fanon...I have read most of the stories in the archive, and some I like, some I don't..

The only thing I care about is whether or not Lois and Clark end up happy and in love. I like when people change things up with them, and if there just so happens to be a point in there that says Lois' couch is uncomfortable or Clark hates flying...so be it...

I don't really see a problem with it. I say keep em' coming I love reading all the stories posted and check the site every Sunday!

Ditto. I mean, I'm not saying whether or not Lois needs to dye her hair blonde and turn into a matchmaker for a dating service (and here I'm really just thinking of my sister and her hilarious job to illustrate a point). Although she could if she wanted to; I don't particularly care. Just...have fun with it, you know? And maybe I just say that because fanfic is only a small part of my existence, despite the insane amount of time I spend wandering around the boards and the Archive. Eventually, it just comes back to the fact that there's a little something for everyone at the Archive and the boards.


JD

I'm not sure where the idea came from that there is anything wrong with fanon - I didn't see that suggestion in this thread - although I'm not going back to read all the posts and look, so I could have missed something that's lead you all to that conclusion. <g>

I certainly don't believe there's anything wrong with it - to me it's a natural evolution from canon and quite cool. It shows inventiveness, originality and that the author's been seriously studying the characters, if you ask me.

Now, if Nan had posted on one of the other threads which have been discussing what's in character or not and what's in canon or not...I'd have posted to say I was thinking exactly the same thing. But, here, in this thread, I thought we were simply having fun, rather than debating what was the 'right' course.

Anyway, I've generally always believed that you should write fanfic for the fun of it. I've always tended to follow the philosophy of C S Lewis. Write the stories you want to read. If others want to read them too, that's icing on the cake. But really if you're having fun in the writing and with the characters that's all the justification you need.

I'm sorry if my innocently intended question has confused anyone, or lead them to believe they're doing something wrong. Kind of ironic when it was really intended to be a celebration of the inventiveness of our authors.

LabRat

catching up here. So much to read.

about the heratbeat: Here's the first place I recall reading it:
<<He flew high over the buildings, circling one last time
in the night. Below him, he could hear the hum of city life,
bustling even at this late hour. And, over it all, an ever-present
gentle rhythm. He smiled to himself. Her heart was beating
slowly and gently, not quite asleep, but neither fully awake.
Calling to him. With a twist, he swooped downward, and home.>>
(jen baker: Heartbeat)
not sure when that was written - 1997 maybe?

Digs at Lois's furniture: - we all seem to have done that at some point - it's even there in Rec: Justice - it just seems so obvious- no one could ever sit on those things - only perch and then fly <g>

Clark's crying - imo (a redundant phrase - sorry <g>) occasionally, canon is what *doesn't * happen. So it's significant that Clark doean't cry in the series (except in that one memorable scene on the ice flow.) For example, he doesn't cry when his parents are held hostage and threatened with death, or when Lois has lost her memory or at the end of an especially horriffic disaaster. Now from this I never concluded that Clark doesn't cry but that he doesn't cry *easily*.
So how does this interpretation affect how I react to Clark's crying in a fanfic? it depends If he cries easily, in situations similar to those we saw in the show in which he didn't cry, then the scene feels false to me - un-Clark like.
But does that mean Clark never cries - no way - but that type of scene has to be used sparingly, otherwise it trivializes his more powerful emotions.

On a more superficiall level, the same idea applies to Clark's singing - we just don't see him doing that in the show, and so a lot of us have taken that non-event one degree further in our fics, wondered why, and come up with ... the poor boy can't carry a tune. Now that's not canon but it's not contradicted by canon either.

As a fan of L & C: tNAoS, canon is important to me - when i read a fanfic, i want to feel like I'm watching a potential "lost episode or scene" . So, although that requires an orginal plot and freash dialogue, it still requires *consistency* with canon.

Fanon is another matter - definitely not to be taken as carved in stone, or even in washable crayon. (although i still love Jen Baker's Heartbeat - just a beautiful idea)

c (who apologizes for the tacky reference to Recognition)

Okay, you guys have gotten me curious about the heartbeat thing because I can't even remember if I used that one in Sanctuary. I'm thinking I did and that was written right after the first season, summer/fall 1995, and posted about a year later in 1996. I KNOW I didn't use it Lois' Revenge because it would've sort of defeated the point of that story.

What strikes me as curious and why I mention it here is that I'm pretty sure I didn't come up with it on my own, meaning it was already an established "thing" in L&C fanfics. Specific stories, I couldn't say but it would have to be things written during or right after the first season. Was there an episode in the first season that had him "listening" for her heartbeat for some reason?

I do remember being surprised when the New Krypton arc happened on the series at about the same time Sanctuary was being distributed and finding out the NK were telepathic. Made me want to go back and rewrite some stuff.

BB Medos: Sanctuary

Yes, you did, Beverly. just checked it on my hard drive - one of my all time favourite stories, but I'd forgotten that bit about the heartbeat! Time to reread it. Still, I think I read "Heartbeat" first, though, perhaps because Sanctuary is nfic which i didn't discover until well after I started reading L & C fanfic. Also, I'm not sure when Heartbeat was first posted - the archive copy is undated. Maybe Pam knows? I'm not sure any of this matters but it's interesting to trace the origins of some of these bits of fanon.

c

Ohmigod, you mean I actually did use it there? And not even in the scene I was thinking of. How . . . strange.

I still think it was used relatively early in another fanfic. I just can't remember which . . . although . . . I do have a vague memory of one where he's listening to Lois' heartbeat and hears something else, too. Three guesses as to what if you don't know. Was that the Heartbeat story already mentioned or another one entirely?

If that's not it, I have no idea. I just know it was already something being used, not a lot exactly but some, when I wrote Sanctuary.

And I think I have an inkling of where the idea comes from in the series. Can't think of the episode name at the moment but it's the one where she's trapped in a vault. Well, there were probably a couple of those, so it's the one with the invisible man. Whatever, he cocks his head and "listens" for a moment before diving in to rescue her. Seems like it was right after that that the concept began popping up in fanfics of all shapes and sizes.

I think that was Heartbeat, Bev. I only know that it was written and posted no later than March 1996, when I read it after getting on-line capability and joining FoLCdom.

The scene from ILTY would be an interesting source for the heartbeat idea. It never occurred to me that Clark would be listening for something so much quieter than Lois's breathing, particularly since the director cut from Superman outside the gold repository listening for Lois to Lois breathing noisily inside the vault.

The whole idea of Clark listening to, being comforted by, and recognizing Lois's heartbeat is definitely FoLCLore, but the way Nan has used it in her Home series is just canon. There, she has Clark able to make a good guess at people's emotions by listening to their heartrate and smelling the chemical changes on their skin, which is an extrapolation of what we saw him do in P,ML and ATAI, plus decades of learning what emotions those physiological responses were attached to.

Does it really matter where the elements came from? I don't think so, not unless you're especially concerned about writing a story strictly in canon. Most of the FoLCLore ideas make good sense in terms of character, too, which is why they made it into FoLCLore in the first place, so why not use them? I used FoLCLore on my very first story (A Shot in the Dark). My author's notes says: I've borrowed the Kryptonian sexual physiology from Jiji's [note: Jennifer Baker's] stories because it seemed like the perfect compromise between Clark's possessing superhuman endurance and being "faster than a speeding bullet."

I just want to say that this is fascinating! Thank you, Carol and Beverley, for drawing my attention to very, very early examples of fans being inventive in this way.

I'm pretty sure that Heartbeat was already on the Archive by the time I started reading it seriously - ie starting at A and working my way through, rather than dabbling (this was at a time when there were something like 500 stories there, so somewhat easier than now! ), and that would have been around 1996, I think.

Carol, I agree with you entirely in terms of Clark crying - I think he can, but it takes something pretty devastating to make him do it. Your list of times when he didn't cry was interesting. Now, we didn't see him cry when he thought Lois had been murdered - but we saw him scream and we saw him punch out a TV. We don't know what he did in the minutes he'd have been alone with the knowledge of her death.

After a horrific rescue? I don't know. Did we see him in the series after a truly terrible human catastrophe? I've read plenty of stories where he's depressed after helping at an earthquake or bombing or landslide etc where lots of people have died. A story I wrote last year did have him - as Superman - crying after a landslide with serious loss of life; the tears, though, came after he'd talked about it and therefore been dwelling on it. We can all carry on and retain composure if we avoid talking about something that upset us! Of course, in the story he'd also come within a hair's-breadth of seeing Lois murdered, right after returning from the landslide. Fanon/FoLClore? (I like that word ) In character - just? Or not? I hope it's in character.

Anyway, keep these examples coming - I'm really enjoying the discussion! I'm with LabRat, Erica and others: if inventiveness and originality in this respect can be justified given what we know of the characters and their behaviour in the series, I'm all for it.


Wendy