Well, amidst the highly active discussion over in the Clark Quiz Poll, Labrat asked this:

So I thought I'd start a new thread so this subject doesn't get lost.

I believe that many points of fanon are a direct result the absence of introspection on the show. I know I've read several episode rewrites (or even extentions) that have made me stop and think: Wow, I never thought of that while I was watching the show, but it makes *so* much sense. Lois or Clark's emotions and rationalizations for the way they behave are something we can only speculate on, but they are very real aspects that make up their characterizations. When we take these speculations and incorporate them into fanfic, we supplement the show's canon. Reading story after story in which many authors either draw the same conclusions or mimic what they've seen in other stories, causes us to create a new and improved canon in our minds. Fanon.

I'll go ahead and list a few off the top of my head, then everyone else can chime in with their own. Numerous authors have made Clark cry, and believably so, in their stories.

Canon: Clark doesn't cry.
Fanon: Highly emotional situations will bring Clark to tears.

Possibly due to rating restrictions, or the nature of the Superman myth, or even because Clark is just a darned good guy, we never hear him curse on the show. More than a few authors have included Lois and/or Clark swearing in their stories. Some people may still believe this to be too far out of character, but for me, when Clark curses followed by another character's introspection: Lois flinched. He never cursed. Only when he was *really* angry.

Probably a poor example, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

Canon: Clark doesn't curse.
Fanon: Clark curses when highly emotional (scared, angry, frustrated, etc).

Here's one where the line is kind of blurred, at least for me. Lois's furniture is highly uncomfortable. It looks to be that way on the show, but I don't think it was ever strictly mentioned. Several authors have made it a point to describe Lois's furniture as decorative, but uncomfortable.

And what about that endearing curl of hair that's always falling over Clark's forehead and so tempting to brush back?

I'm searching my brain for more right now, but I thought I'd go ahead and let others start adding theirs, too.

Sara

Brought across from the other thread:

There are plenty of fics which make reference to Clark being a terrible singer. Not from the series at all! As far as I recall from someone explaining it, that came from Dean Cain apparently not being able to carry a tune in a bucket.

And what's Clark's favourite film? The Princess Bride? Um... why? That one's not in the series either. Again, I think Dean Cain might have said once that he liked it, and it's found its way into dozens of fic.


Wendy

The lock of hair, I've always believed, was inspired by the comics. There, Clark has always had a single lock of hair that curls in front of his forehead. In the movies, Chris Reeve had it as Superman but not as Clark. (In what I always thought was a pretty cool touch, Chris Reeve's Superman also had slightly blue-tinted hair, another neat little homage to the character's four color origins.) The Lock is part of Superman's signature hairstyle, and, thanks to his invulnerability, remains there no matter what. It has, quite literally, popped right back into place after a nuclear explosion. Personally, I was always a little disappointed that it was never seen on the show, so I was happy to see it begin to appear in fic.



Hmm. I take it back. Looks like the Lock actually did make it into the series:

As for fanon, the best example I can think of is Clark's discomfort with airline travel. I don't think that was ever mentioned in the show. In fact, the only time I can think of when Clark would have been on a passenger plane (as opposed to Baron Sunday's private jet or Trask's military transport) in the show was when he flew to Smallville with Lois in GGGoH. We never saw the plane, but it was never mentioned, either. All we see is Clark driving from the airport with Lois, and in that scene, he's so relaxed it's grating on Lois's nerves. Despite that, though, it's fanon that Clark hates, perhaps even fears, being on commercial flights.

A more blurry example is that Superman was being intentionally cruel to Lois when he came to see her after she'd rejected Clark in BatP. It makes sense to me, and I'm not sure I'd have seen it any other way, but that has become the accepted interpretation.

Paul

Yes, the fear of flying is a popular one. One that I also think was influence by Dean. I remember him saying he hated flying, everyone thinking that was a good chuckle since he played Superman.

Though it may have been actor-influenced, I think this characteristic is really valid. Perhaps, because it's been so well justified in fanfic. It makes sense that someone who's used to flying under his own power would feel highly uncomfortable in an airplane that he doesn't control and is trapped in.

Sara

Yes, it does make sense. Especially if you add in the clausterphobia established in "Never on Sunday."

I think the fact that it does make so much sense is probably the reason why it's become so commonly accepted. It's probably the most important quality of a successful bit of fanon. If it makes sense and it fits in with what we already know, if it seems like a natural extention of the character, then it probably will be picked up by others and added into the general understanding.

Paul

P.S. I hope I didn't go too far overboard with the pictures in my last post. I just got into finding images from different incarnations. It was there in the beginning. It was there in the movies. It was there after a nuclear explosion. It's still there now. It always has been and always will be there. It is... The Lock.

With the inability of Clark to sing... I never knew that Dean Cain couldn't sing. What gave me the impression that Clark couldn't sing was the Christmas episode in forth year. When Lois is trying to inspire hope in people, she starts trying to encourage them to sing Christmas songs. At first she isn't very successful. But Clark gives her a look which, to me, was meant to encourage her to continue trying. At that point, if he had really wanted to help, he would have joined in, singing with her to encourage others to do the same. The fact that he didn't told me that Clark Kent couldn't sing.

This is great guys - all fascinating and I was right, now that you're mentioning them most of them are obvious things that I was aware of - just hadn't thought about in years. Sara, thanks for starting the thread. I'm intrigued by all the posts so far. Keep them coming!

I think the forehead curl though comes from the show. At least, I have a very vivid picture in my mind of Lois reaching up and brushing it back. Don't ask me which episode it would be though. Might have been more than one. Anyone else remember that? Or am I making it up as I go along now.

The flying thing. I used that in one of the first nfic romps I wrote. Although it wasn't fear of flying as such as it was just that Clark was bored and felt confined and restricted. I took that from the show. Well, I extrapolated that from the show, is more accurate. <g>

In one of the Lex Files episodes Clark has been off interviewing a murderer before he is put to death and in the scene where he returns to the DP and Lois greets him he just looks so weary and fed up that I got the notion flying on a plane wasn't exactly on his list of favourite things to do. And once that thought was in my head, it seemed logical to me that if you can fly like a bird with all that freedom and sky to wander around in, being cooped up on a much slower plane must be immensely boring and frustrating.

You know, this is even more interesting than I figured it would be. Anyone else out there who have written fanon moments care to share what inspired them to do so?

Oh and one of my own. When I posted last I wasn't sure if it was what people meant by fanon - but I think there are a few fanfic out there where Clark and Lois's favourite restaruant is Angelina's (think I got the name right). And I think that was taken up from one fanfic author and carried on by others.

BTW, it's a personal bias but I just hate that word fanon. <g> Anyone else hate it too? Now that my memory is coming back online, I seem to remember having a similar conversation to this on the fanfic mailing list, oh, ages ago, and someone calling it FoLCLore. Much cuter for me. <g>

LabRat

Copying over what I wrote on the other thread:

I used to know this stuff... the one example of "fanon" I can remember is from way back -- Zoomway wrote You Made Me Love You and in it, she portrayed Mayson as xenophobic, as in this exchange:

A lot of people adopted that idea, consciously or not. Actually, I remember being slightly surprised to look back at the show and see that the characterization of her *wasn't* supported there.

The only other one I remember is that someone (Chris Mulder, maybe) created a restaurant called "Angelina's" and it showed up in other stories subsequently; I think some people thought it was the name of the place L&C went in Lucky Leon.

Rivka reminded me of another one (I think) -- the idea that Lois's sofas are incredibly uncomfortable to sit on. I don't think that's from the show, but it sure shows up in a lot of fanfic.

PJ

The one that is most prevalant to me is the reason the writers of fanfic have adopted as the 'reason' for Lois totally illogical behavior in dating and agreeing to marry Lex in the House of Luthor and Barbarians at The Planet.

The 'fact' that she agreed to his advances and proposal was because she didn't love him and therefore he couldn't hurt her like someone she actually loved could when the relationship fell apart has been picked up and used a lot in many different fics. I don't think this idea was ever really supported in the show beyond Lois admitting that she 'had feelings' for Lex but probably didn't love him. Their explanation was that Lois was taken in by the fact that someone like Lex (at least the person she thought he was)would be interested in her.

Tank (who never bought into the idea since he believes that Lois is really a closet romantic and might have a 'relationship' of convenience with someone she doesn't love, but would never marry them... that was reserved for the 'Prince Charming' she never really believed would come along)

This one has always baffled me. It never, ever occurred to me that he was being cruel, either intentionally or otherwise. I just don't accept it. I don't think the writers intended it to be cruel. His tone is apologetic; regretful, even. The moment is poignant, not hurtful. If there's an emotion, it's that he's accutely conscious that he's not normal - he's Superman, a being with these cursed powers that make him different. If his words are hurtful (and I don't think they are), then it's only because he's being clumsy - the facts are out of his mouth before he realises that it might be a rather embarrassing thing to remind her of.

Yvonne

I don't think he was being deliberately cruel as such, but my viewpoint does differ from your take on it, Yvonne. I do see him as angry in that scene and I think his anger gets the better of him at points in it.

Lois is obviously discomfited by his robe remark and embarrassed, yet he makes no attempt to apologise for it. Which tends to make me think he meant it to embarrass. Otherwise, knowing our Clark, he'd be tripping over himself to say he didn't mean it that way. Plus it's always struck me as a weird thing for him to say. I don't recall him ever making that kind of personal remark before. But my memory of episodes is definitely hazy these days, so I could be forgetting something there.

Regardless, he does strike me as being more remote and colder towards her than he is normally. And that makes sense to me - he's just been rejected by her and then she thoughtlessly asks him to contact Superman for her for a conversation the intent of which is AFAIR made quite clear in the park scene. The man's only human. So it's never surprised me that in that apartment scene he'd let that hurt and rejection spill over into anger. Actually, all things considered and given how thoughtlessly cruel Lois has been to him, what surprises me is that he's so restrained.

I've never heard anything apologetic in his tone when he makes the robe remark - I do remembering wincing at that point when I first saw the episode as it came across as ice-cold to me. He was wounded, so he was lashing out in return.

But without asking the writer exactly what he (they?) meant we'll never know for sure what the intent was either way or who has the right of it and it's the ways in which we interpret such moments differently that make fanfic so interesting anyway. Would be boring if we all saw the same things all the time. I know I've often looked at something differently after reading a fresh interpretation of it in fanfic. That's part of the fun.

LabRat

A quick note about Lois's furniture...

I used that idea in EMII and, at the time I wrote it, I thought it was original. My reaction to Lois's love-seats was clearly akin to Wendy's; who on Earth would want those as sofas of choice?

Between writing and posting -- and you have to bear in mind that I worked on that story over a very long period of time -- I saw at least one other story which made reference in less than complimentary terms to Lois's love-seats. (I think, unsurprisingly, it was one of Wendy's.)

Is this a case of convergent inspiration?

Chris

I'm with Labby, I think there has been a FoLClore discussion before.

This discussion is ringing bells in my head.

Although that might just be the dancing pixies.

Helga

Um, I just saw that Zoom just posted something about that, Pam. See here:

http://www.zoomway.net/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=12;t=001138;p=1#000000


And as for fanon, there's also the one where Lois wears cucumber oil... For the record, it's cause Teri wore it when she and Dean were doing love scenes because he liked it.

Laura

I think much of the fanon is derived from the feel people got from watching the show.

Lois' furniture - I'm sorry but they just don't look comfortable and Lois and Clark never looked particularly comfortable on them. However they did look comfortable on Clark's soft stuffed sofa.

Clark's fear of flying - seems reasonable to me because of the claustraphobia, the fact that the flight time of a plane is so long compared to him under his own power. Then also I always thought it would bother him because he is trapped. If there was a problem where he needed to rescue the plane he couldn't do it without reavealing himself.

The robe comment. First off Lois had asked for Superman to come see her so why wasn't she wearing a robe in the first place. Plus the other times we she her in the show she is wearing frumpy pjs. So why the sexy nightgown other than to entice Superman. As for Clark's comment I think he didn't mean to be nasty, rude or hurtful but here she is in a sexy nightgown knowing he is probably coming. Then she calls more attention to the fact by saying she'll get a robe instead of just saying be back in a second and getting it. So when she made the comment of getting the robe he acted by his reaction to her state of undress, his hurt feelings and anger that she would ask him as Clark to send Superman to her. I think maybe subconsciously he might have wanted to hurt her a little as he had been hurt. Not only by what had happened in the park but because of her "flaunting" herself in front of him as SUPERMAN - whether she meant to do it or not.

I think the lack of cursing on the show was that it was the early '90's and it was on at 8 pm - family viewing time. Not that I think Clark would do much - couldn't afford to might slip and do it as Superman plus I can't picture Martha and Jonathan allowing that kind of speach when he was a kid or that they did it. I would think Lois could get pretty down and dirty if she cussed.

Actually, we know she would. Perry told us she did. Remember that ski-ing incident where she broke her ankle? I can't remember the phrase he uses and the script is no help because what it says doesn't match with what I remember him saying, but he definitely indicates that Lois turned the air blue when they were bringing her down off that mountain.

LabRat

Sara mention that
I recall only one time Clark cried. After Lois said yes to Lex's proposal he flew to the artic screamed out his heart. When he finished he buried his head in his hands and his shoulders were shaking. I always thought he was sobbing.

Also:

I notice that many fanfics show Clark flying to the artic often to think or when frustrated by Lois and/or his feelings towards her.

They also have him bathing in the oceans and lakes to clean up after extremely dirty rescues. Is this canon or FoLClore?

TLAT

Interesting, Tlat - I've done both I have no idea if I was the first and others have followed (not imitated so much as instinctively feeling it sounded logical and going with it), or whether I've done it so many times in my stories that it feels as if it's very, very common in fic. Or whether I followed others in making Clark do the same thing.

Going to the Arctic to scream - definitely based on the scene you reference, in BatP. I figured that if he went there then, he might go in other situations when he was in so much emotional agony he didn't know what to do.

As for taking a dip in the ocean to clean off, I know I've done that - not sure when I did it first, but again it seemed like a logical thing for him to do if he'd been involved in a very messy rescue and he and his Suit were covered in mud or dust or some such - sure, he could shower, but the ocean is bigger.

Kmar, you're absolutely right about Lois's furniture: that's exactly why I've made a point of writing references to it as uncomfortable. It looks about as comfortable as an old-fashioned Chesterfield. Ever tried slouching and vegging out on one of those? You can't!

Oh, and while I'm here, I did think of another example of 'fanon' - or perhaps it's better described as contested fanon. :p Does Clark prefer Lois with short hair or not?


Wendy

What kind of question is that? Shoulder-length hair of course!

Kaethel (who can already hear Lex's meaningful scream: THIS... IS... WAR!!!! )

As for Lois' furniture being uncomfortable... I think I saw that idea first in fanfic. But then I went and looked at the furnature and had to agree. It really didn't look very comfortable. So if something is pointed out to me which appears (at least to me) to be backed up by the show, is that canon or is that fanom? I know I've used that idea in my stories - but at this point when I have a scene with Lois and Clark getting... ummm... comfortable , I find myself unable to quite picture it on Lois' couch. In Midnight Gambit, I actually put in my intro that I'd given Lois a more comfortable couch. Otherwise, the story just didn't work for me .

I agree that the dip in the ocean makes sense. For one very big reason. If he was involved in a messy rescue he couldn't guarantee that he would make it home before he had to stop for another rescue. So to me it makes perfect sense that he would take a dip in the nearest body of water to get at least partially cleaned off, ie. the nearest ocean, lake, pond, river probably the bigger the better. Or even have the firemen rinse him off with their hoses, which I believe has been used in a story or two.

Fun discussion, this! I've agreed with some things and disagreed with others... and quite frankly, to this day, I'm often unsure what's canon and what's fanon!

One example I haven't seen yet is the typical fanfic characterization of Jimmy. I was reading fanfic for three years (and writing it for two) before I ever saw my first ep, so I have a slightly bizarre POV of the characters and the show. When I first started watching eps that featured Jimmy, I was surprised to see how much he actually did to help LnC -- and how much they ignored it. I know Tank won't agree with this but that's because the Jimmy Olsen in the comics was truly a waste of oxygen most of the time. But Jimmy gave them clues, passed on crucial bits of information, and was a true friend to both Lois and Clark. Nan Smith is just about the only author who writes a competent Jimmy, and I don't think that's wholly fair -- or in canon.

No, I'm not saying that Jimmy Interruptus didn't exist, or that he couldn't be irritating at times! :rolleyes: But Jimmy Olsen on the show was not the stupid incompetent that so many fanfic authors portray.

Hazel

Question -- a lot of stories have used the idea that Clark can recognize Lois's heartbeat when he hears it, that he could pick her out of a crowd. I love that idea. But I'm wondering if that was ever said or implied on the show? I know he monitored Miranda's heartbeat to detect that she was lying, but I'm not sure the show ever took it any further than that, so I was wondering.

PJ

I used that one in my Caped Fear. I don't recall that aspect of their telepathic 'link' being stated on the show, no.

For me, that one was just a natural evolution born out of the 'link' established in Home Is Where The Hurt Is and just the notion that it seems a natural element for a guy with superhearing to have and use.

Actually, I believe he was both of these characterisations. Yes, he was often the way you portray him, Hazel, but he could also be the bumbling idiot now and then.

Let's not forget that this was the guy who, when left in charge of the Planet, based all of his editorial decisions on the advice of a phoneline fortune teller.

So, I think both portrayals are fairly accurate.

LabRat

Canon or fanon? My only comment is this. If I follow this discussion any farther I'm going to be too paranoid to write.

So, in the interests of warding off writer's block, I'm bowing out and won't be visiting this thread again. I will only state that I'm not going to worry if it's fanon or canon. If it looks right, I'm going to write it and the heck with which it is.


Nan

Well, I'm going to grab onto that with both hands.

Because I have to say, having tried to catch up on all the threads on this subject and in the polls, I'm more confused than when I started.

And I have alternately decided I write nothing but fanon with a sometimes spark of canon purely by kismet. Or that I stick as closely to canon as I know how, and sometimes belly flop over into fanon, hardly feeling the sting.

It's both, I'm certain. Or not. Maybe.

Anyway, I'm going to join Nan at the bar.

On the whole, I don't think too hard. Call it lazy or call it gut-reaction, I have a idea of how these characters *sound* and *feel* to me. It's vague enough I couldn't spell it out on a dare, but it keeps me oriented as I write.

Simple as that. Muddle it up with facts, and I'm in big trouble.

CC

edit: holy cow! this is my 900th post!!

CC, you just write good. So keep doing what you are doing. Don't change a thing.

(And I'm 59 posts ahead of you as of this post. So you'd better speak up.)

Lynn

LOL, Nan. That is how I often feel after these discussions. If I had read one of these threads before writing my first story, I'm not sure I would have ever had the nerve to post. In fact... Hey, Labby, could you send back the story I just submitted to the archives? (just kidding )

I was wondering......I have read in quite a few stories (can't name them off the top of my head) that Clark has a 'reaction', we shall call it, to pasta....is this fanon or canon? It may have been on the series, but I haven't come across it if it was mentioned

Also..I get that canon is a set in stone event and such that happened, my question is does that include comics, movies, etc.. or the specific Lois and Clark series? Someone help me out here

Please don't ridicule the dummy lol

ooh, one I know!

The pasta thing is from the beginning of AKA Superman -- Clark is getting all frisky and says to Lois "you know what pasta does to me" <g>

And yeah, "canon" means the events we saw onscreen, specifically in an episode of L&C. Superman's canon can change radically, depending on what version you're talking about

PJ

Oh Chief.. I do remember that in TOGOM Clark asked Jimmy to call Lois beep and let it ring. At first, I also didn't think it had anything to do with this heartbeat thing, but if he can track down a beep that is like any ordinary beep beeping, I'm sure he can find Lois by tracking down the heartbeats he already knew by heart.

Another thing is...

do we really need to follow cannons or fanons?

Is that what makes our stories trustful and make us give a real description of the characters?

what are they except for being toys for us to play with? and who is to give instructions for how to or not to play with them?

Would my story be badly written if I say that Clark cried or that Lois slept with another man before they got married but already knew each other?

I dont know... Why do we need warning threads for this anyway? arent we here to read any kind of fanfic or just to read the same old script being repeated on and on? (not that i am complaining though. I do love them and cant get tired of them.)

Just questions that came to my mind now... i am not here trying to prove Lex is a good person, okay?

Thanks ChiefPam! Just wondering on those!

I agree with Mad Dog Lane...I don't really have a preferance to canon or fanon...I have read most of the stories in the archive, and some I like, some I don't..

The only thing I care about is whether or not Lois and Clark end up happy and in love. I like when people change things up with them, and if there just so happens to be a point in there that says Lois' couch is uncomfortable or Clark hates flying...so be it...

I don't really see a problem with it. I say keep em' coming I love reading all the stories posted and check the site every Sunday!

Ditto. I mean, I'm not saying whether or not Lois needs to dye her hair blonde and turn into a matchmaker for a dating service (and here I'm really just thinking of my sister and her hilarious job to illustrate a point). Although she could if she wanted to; I don't particularly care. Just...have fun with it, you know? And maybe I just say that because fanfic is only a small part of my existence, despite the insane amount of time I spend wandering around the boards and the Archive. Eventually, it just comes back to the fact that there's a little something for everyone at the Archive and the boards.


JD

I'm not sure where the idea came from that there is anything wrong with fanon - I didn't see that suggestion in this thread - although I'm not going back to read all the posts and look, so I could have missed something that's lead you all to that conclusion. <g>

I certainly don't believe there's anything wrong with it - to me it's a natural evolution from canon and quite cool. It shows inventiveness, originality and that the author's been seriously studying the characters, if you ask me.

Now, if Nan had posted on one of the other threads which have been discussing what's in character or not and what's in canon or not...I'd have posted to say I was thinking exactly the same thing. But, here, in this thread, I thought we were simply having fun, rather than debating what was the 'right' course.

Anyway, I've generally always believed that you should write fanfic for the fun of it. I've always tended to follow the philosophy of C S Lewis. Write the stories you want to read. If others want to read them too, that's icing on the cake. But really if you're having fun in the writing and with the characters that's all the justification you need.

I'm sorry if my innocently intended question has confused anyone, or lead them to believe they're doing something wrong. Kind of ironic when it was really intended to be a celebration of the inventiveness of our authors.

LabRat

catching up here. So much to read.

about the heratbeat: Here's the first place I recall reading it:
<<He flew high over the buildings, circling one last time
in the night. Below him, he could hear the hum of city life,
bustling even at this late hour. And, over it all, an ever-present
gentle rhythm. He smiled to himself. Her heart was beating
slowly and gently, not quite asleep, but neither fully awake.
Calling to him. With a twist, he swooped downward, and home.>>
(jen baker: Heartbeat)
not sure when that was written - 1997 maybe?

Digs at Lois's furniture: - we all seem to have done that at some point - it's even there in Rec: Justice - it just seems so obvious- no one could ever sit on those things - only perch and then fly <g>

Clark's crying - imo (a redundant phrase - sorry <g>) occasionally, canon is what *doesn't * happen. So it's significant that Clark doean't cry in the series (except in that one memorable scene on the ice flow.) For example, he doesn't cry when his parents are held hostage and threatened with death, or when Lois has lost her memory or at the end of an especially horriffic disaaster. Now from this I never concluded that Clark doesn't cry but that he doesn't cry *easily*.
So how does this interpretation affect how I react to Clark's crying in a fanfic? it depends If he cries easily, in situations similar to those we saw in the show in which he didn't cry, then the scene feels false to me - un-Clark like.
But does that mean Clark never cries - no way - but that type of scene has to be used sparingly, otherwise it trivializes his more powerful emotions.

On a more superficiall level, the same idea applies to Clark's singing - we just don't see him doing that in the show, and so a lot of us have taken that non-event one degree further in our fics, wondered why, and come up with ... the poor boy can't carry a tune. Now that's not canon but it's not contradicted by canon either.

As a fan of L & C: tNAoS, canon is important to me - when i read a fanfic, i want to feel like I'm watching a potential "lost episode or scene" . So, although that requires an orginal plot and freash dialogue, it still requires *consistency* with canon.

Fanon is another matter - definitely not to be taken as carved in stone, or even in washable crayon. (although i still love Jen Baker's Heartbeat - just a beautiful idea)

c (who apologizes for the tacky reference to Recognition)

Okay, you guys have gotten me curious about the heartbeat thing because I can't even remember if I used that one in Sanctuary. I'm thinking I did and that was written right after the first season, summer/fall 1995, and posted about a year later in 1996. I KNOW I didn't use it Lois' Revenge because it would've sort of defeated the point of that story.

What strikes me as curious and why I mention it here is that I'm pretty sure I didn't come up with it on my own, meaning it was already an established "thing" in L&C fanfics. Specific stories, I couldn't say but it would have to be things written during or right after the first season. Was there an episode in the first season that had him "listening" for her heartbeat for some reason?

I do remember being surprised when the New Krypton arc happened on the series at about the same time Sanctuary was being distributed and finding out the NK were telepathic. Made me want to go back and rewrite some stuff.

BB Medos: Sanctuary

Yes, you did, Beverly. just checked it on my hard drive - one of my all time favourite stories, but I'd forgotten that bit about the heartbeat! Time to reread it. Still, I think I read "Heartbeat" first, though, perhaps because Sanctuary is nfic which i didn't discover until well after I started reading L & C fanfic. Also, I'm not sure when Heartbeat was first posted - the archive copy is undated. Maybe Pam knows? I'm not sure any of this matters but it's interesting to trace the origins of some of these bits of fanon.

c

Ohmigod, you mean I actually did use it there? And not even in the scene I was thinking of. How . . . strange.

I still think it was used relatively early in another fanfic. I just can't remember which . . . although . . . I do have a vague memory of one where he's listening to Lois' heartbeat and hears something else, too. Three guesses as to what if you don't know. Was that the Heartbeat story already mentioned or another one entirely?

If that's not it, I have no idea. I just know it was already something being used, not a lot exactly but some, when I wrote Sanctuary.

And I think I have an inkling of where the idea comes from in the series. Can't think of the episode name at the moment but it's the one where she's trapped in a vault. Well, there were probably a couple of those, so it's the one with the invisible man. Whatever, he cocks his head and "listens" for a moment before diving in to rescue her. Seems like it was right after that that the concept began popping up in fanfics of all shapes and sizes.

I think that was Heartbeat, Bev. I only know that it was written and posted no later than March 1996, when I read it after getting on-line capability and joining FoLCdom.

The scene from ILTY would be an interesting source for the heartbeat idea. It never occurred to me that Clark would be listening for something so much quieter than Lois's breathing, particularly since the director cut from Superman outside the gold repository listening for Lois to Lois breathing noisily inside the vault.

The whole idea of Clark listening to, being comforted by, and recognizing Lois's heartbeat is definitely FoLCLore, but the way Nan has used it in her Home series is just canon. There, she has Clark able to make a good guess at people's emotions by listening to their heartrate and smelling the chemical changes on their skin, which is an extrapolation of what we saw him do in P,ML and ATAI, plus decades of learning what emotions those physiological responses were attached to.

Does it really matter where the elements came from? I don't think so, not unless you're especially concerned about writing a story strictly in canon. Most of the FoLCLore ideas make good sense in terms of character, too, which is why they made it into FoLCLore in the first place, so why not use them? I used FoLCLore on my very first story (A Shot in the Dark). My author's notes says: I've borrowed the Kryptonian sexual physiology from Jiji's [note: Jennifer Baker's] stories because it seemed like the perfect compromise between Clark's possessing superhuman endurance and being "faster than a speeding bullet."

I just want to say that this is fascinating! Thank you, Carol and Beverley, for drawing my attention to very, very early examples of fans being inventive in this way.

I'm pretty sure that Heartbeat was already on the Archive by the time I started reading it seriously - ie starting at A and working my way through, rather than dabbling (this was at a time when there were something like 500 stories there, so somewhat easier than now! ), and that would have been around 1996, I think.

Carol, I agree with you entirely in terms of Clark crying - I think he can, but it takes something pretty devastating to make him do it. Your list of times when he didn't cry was interesting. Now, we didn't see him cry when he thought Lois had been murdered - but we saw him scream and we saw him punch out a TV. We don't know what he did in the minutes he'd have been alone with the knowledge of her death.

After a horrific rescue? I don't know. Did we see him in the series after a truly terrible human catastrophe? I've read plenty of stories where he's depressed after helping at an earthquake or bombing or landslide etc where lots of people have died. A story I wrote last year did have him - as Superman - crying after a landslide with serious loss of life; the tears, though, came after he'd talked about it and therefore been dwelling on it. We can all carry on and retain composure if we avoid talking about something that upset us! Of course, in the story he'd also come within a hair's-breadth of seeing Lois murdered, right after returning from the landslide. Fanon/FoLClore? (I like that word ) In character - just? Or not? I hope it's in character.

Anyway, keep these examples coming - I'm really enjoying the discussion! I'm with LabRat, Erica and others: if inventiveness and originality in this respect can be justified given what we know of the characters and their behaviour in the series, I'm all for it.


Wendy

I want to add one other time in the series when Clark cried. When he and Lois were saying goodbye in the DP conference room before he left for New Krypton, she said, "Don't forget me," and the shot cut to Clark, whose eyes were red, who was blinking rapidly, and who had his teeth so tightly clenched that he could hardly say her name. He may not have been actively crying in that scene, but he was fighting tears as hard as I've ever seen a person do it. Notice that both times we saw him near tears were when he was losing Lois. So I would say that Clark crying (or almost crying) over losing Lois is in canon, but crying at other rare times of deep emotion is FoLCLore, and most FoLC will accept either one as in-character.

In Dead Lois Walking the scene at the beginning has Clark with his head resting on his joined fists, and to me it looks like he's fighting back tears in that conversation with Perry as well... He starts off with:

"They want to execute my wife Perry.."

Wendy wrote:
Absolutely! One of the signs of a really good fic, in fact.

Interesting to read the examples of Clark's near "crying" in the series, too. I think those rare examples are what subconsciuosly makes us accept Clark's crying when he believes he's lost Lois in fics.

I'd never thought of Clark's pausing outside the vault in The Invisible Man ep as being his tracking Lois's heartbeat ( I had Sheila's take on it ) but the heartbeat theory does work there too.

c

I just remembered two other bits of FoLCLore: Lois continuing to call Clark "Farmboy" or calling him "Flyboy."

It's canon that she called him "farmboy" in the pilot, but she never said it again in the series. However, fanfic writers often have her call him that repeatedly. And she never called him "Flyboy" on the show, but it's a common appellation in fanfic.

Well, I'm not sure if the connection was made because people thought he was actually listening to her heartbeat in that scene or because he could've been. You have to take into account the fanfic "what if" factor after all.

All it takes is for someone to wonder if he'd been listening for her heartbeat? Not just anyone's heartbeat but hers, and hers alone. The significant of that would be enough to make most FoLC's hearts beat a little faster and then they're all off and running with it.

And I think this is an important aspect to remember in the tangential discussion of whether it's important where these things originate. To me those origins of FoLClore aren't as fascinating as whether they stick.

And why.

Because if they stick over time it means that enough writers and readers have accepted them, whatever they are, as true enough to the characters and the premise of the series that they make it into our collective consciousnesses and are used over and over again.

Now that is significant.

And as a sort of PS to this post, I'd also like to point out that on reflection I'm not sure that scene from Sanctuary counts as one of the heartbeat uses. After all, there's a big difference between him picking out her heartbeat in the middle of Metropolis and a field in Kansas. Or on an island, which is where I was thinking it happened. Must've been in another draft. :p