Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Love, Marriage....and Jimmy

1. If two fourteen year olds come together in a shotgun marriage, what happens to them? I mean, they're under 18, so they can't legally rent...so what happens?

2. If a man marries a woman with a son and they later divorce, can he get joint custody of the kid, even though, biologically, it's not his?

3. If two people are going for a common-law marriage and the husband disappears (being pronounced legally dead) shortly after his "bride" moves in, can she still claim the rights to their stuff, since she's technically his widow? What if she's pregnant; (how) would that affect things?

4. Why aren't there more Jimmy-fics? And where are all the ones that do exist?

5. If a mother is in an accident and camatose, and the father has a mental health issue causing him to be considered unable to look after the child himself, how much time will elapse between the accident and the Social Services descending upon the house like a flock of vultures on carion?

6. Is 7 kids really a ludicrous number for L&C to have?

7. How about 5?

8. Do you think a retarded child would be *more* likely or *less* likely to figure out CK=S? A deaf child? Blind?

9. Ok, this is not really a fic question, but it's been bothering me since I read a certain maxiseries of comicbooks: Is it incest for a man to marry his great-granddaughter?

Mary
As I've said before to you, I believe that it would be more likely for a retarded child to know superman was clark. Blind ones too because maybe clark and superman have the same smell and my mom before she died had a really keen sense of smell (she was going blind and all her senses hightened(SP?).)
jen
ps why aren't there more jimmy fics?

Actually, most states I'm aware of, 14-year-olds can't marry, period. 16 with parental consent, 18 otherwise. But to answer the underage-rental question, a parent can cosign the lease as guarantor, and becomes financially responsible if they can't pay the rent.

My brother going through such a divorce currently , I'd say probably not -- he's not being asked to pay child support, so I'm guessing he has no claim to custody either. If there were some compelling reason why the mother was an unfit parent, he might be able to make a case that he would be a good foster parent, though, since the child already knows him.

Not if both are over the age of 65 and they do it in Indiana! Seriously, probably is. But I was amused to learn that incest laws in Indiana cease to apply at age 65.

Why aren't there more Jimmy fic?
Easy... Jimmy is a terribly uninteresting character. He has no real purpose beyond intruding on moments of intimacy between Lois and Clark, and occassional plot exposition in the form of 'research'.

Are 7 kids too many for L&C?
YES! Even 5 is way off base. I don't like kids so I think 1 would be too many. I also think it would be impossible for Lois, an earthwoman, to have a child with an alien species, Superman/Clark. But if the issue was forced I think that Lois and Clark would follow the general rule of population responsibility and have no more than two. That is also the number that so-called future stories of them commonly use, often twins.

Tank (who can't imagine anyone who would want to see 7 children in one place let alone have to live with them)

I'll try some of these:
Has he adopted the child? Otherwise, I'd say no.

As far as I know two people have to live together for a time (two or three years) before the union is considered a common law marriage. So the "bride" has to be around for a while.

It would be interesting to find out what would be the law if two people told others that their intention was to live together as husband and wife, but they did not believe in either a formal religious or civil marriage. Would that speed up the common law rights of the couple? I don't know.
If she's pregnant, then the off-spring is his and is an heir to his "fortune".


I don't know, but you could look at Nan's Mystery series where Jimmy has an important part. Mystery
Getting to Know You
Faces

That depends on a lot of factors. Is there anyone else in the immediate family to care for the child? Are the father's mental health issues known at the time? Social services aren't going to leave the child without anyone to care for her. And why such a negative attitude to social services?


It's your story and you can give them as many children as you want. Having said that, ask Nan (who I think has five or six) how ludicrous or practical the number is.

I always wondered why no one guessed that CK=S by his voice, so I think a blind child could. Also, a deaf child might focus on something that is the same--hands, lips. Again, it's your story, so you can play with it.

That's all for now.

gerry

I think it is highly unlikely Lois and Clark would have more than 2 or 3 kids. Lois was 29 when they got married, pregnancies are 40 weeks, so realistically, you can have a kid a year -- and what about nursing and spacing between kids? A woman can safely have kids until about age 36 without a significant risk of birth defects and problems with the mother. So if Lois had pregnancies back-to-back-to-back, she would still only have about 4 kids. Plus, this is Lois who has a history of not being all that comfortable around kids. Would she really want 7 or even 5?

There was a poll about this a while back . . . let me look to see if i can find it.

- Laura

Actually, from what I'm reading, most states need not only parental consent, they need a court order for those under 16. This is usually given when the teen is pregnant or already has a child.

http://marriage.about.com/cs/teenmarriage/a/teenus.htm

Common laws: The states that recognize them require a certain amount of time living as man and wife before recognizing it as a common law marriage -- usually 7 years. However, most states nowadays don't recognize them.

And for question 9, yes. Ew.

Hello

Well here's my opinion from my neck of the woods:

One - well the parents would have to have signed something. I know at 16 you can live on your own, but you need parent signed approval (as discussed above). Hey, you'll be living w/ your parents or some other relative!! There was a documentary, on CBC I think, a few months ago on this topic - Children getting married at 13 and 14. Some lived still seperately and then moved in at 16 or 18. SOme lived together in one parent's home.
Lie about your age and live in a cheap hotel on skid row. Lots of people live in cheap hotels.

In Ontario: You must be 18 years of age to get married. It is illegal to marry if you are under 16. Anybody 16 or 17 years of age (other than a widow, widower or divorced person) may marry with the written consent of his/her legal guardian. A special consent form is available for this purpose from your local municipal office. If any person whose consent is required is unavailable or refuses to consent, an application may be made to a judge to dispense with consent.

And then there is all the other Provincial jazz.

I have tried to research and talk to friends about this. I knew a few who could only get out at 16. Here's a link on people talking about it. It is short though - Youth link

Here is an article on the subject. It doesn't include marriage I think, but if you think about the legality of marriage you can intertwine it.
Article

Two - DId he adopt the kid? Yes. If not, no. If the mum is declared unfit, then he can apply for it. He can bring up accusations and see where that goes... If they are technically common in law and registered then he can fight for the kid, but she can also fight for child support...at least that's what I think.

[edit - March 13th]
I spoke to some friends who are common law and said the court may look at how long the couple was together. The best I can find right now is:
Here is the link. I don't know how trustworthy it is, but anyways, here you go:
Three - Well, someone told me that it was 6 months where I live, but I found that a bit quick. I found this quote that pertains where I live (Manitoba. I think it is for the province.) It also depends if you have been registered or not for common law status. When you mean common law mariage, is this what you mean?

If resistered - yes.
If not - no.

In general:

Dealing w/ property:

Four - blah

Five - Well, my bio-da had issues so...depending on how cash strapped your home area is and time of day... Who knows that the parent has psychological issues? That depends. Does the attending Dr. seem to know. If yes, I think it would depend if other relatives showed up first. I don't think they would make it out of the hospital w/o out a social worker on their tail. If no one was sure of his past a psychological consult would be done and if he was deemed unfit there, they would stall until a social worker came.

Six - yes. I was thinking in terms of what someone already mentioned. The whole time period that Lois would have to spit out children. Unless, twins or more happened. Also, I can't imagine Lois wanting to have a heard of holligans.

Seven - if individually - yes.

Eight - more likely to figure it out.

Nine - yes. Legally, I don't fully understand the jargon, but they seem to only focus on those under 18 - a nono.

Criminal code of Canada. The definition of a brother and sister also include 1/2 brother and 1/2 sister.

Just to jump on question one...since I live in Alabama...until a few years ago, 14 year olds could marry here with parental consent. The House approved a bill that upped the age to 16...I have no idea if it's been raised again.

JD

Umm... I'm going to have to disagree with Gerry and Roo about the answer to number two. In Ontario, a man who lives with a woman (not even married) could apply for and get custody of or access to a child who is not his.

He could also be required to pay child support for a child who is not his if he stood 'in loco parentis' - which, literally translated, means in the place of a parent. The court looks at role the man played in the life of the child in order to determine 'in loco parentis'.

In response to number three: In Ontario, a common-law spouse does not, at this time, automatically have the same property rights as a married spouse - so if they just recently moved in together (even if she's pregnant), she would have problems making a property claim (if she has been his common-law for a while, she can make different claims which I won't go into here). On the other hand, it might be possible for her to make some sort of support claim.

The child, on the other hand, would be a legal heir.

Of course, all of this depends on whether the man has a will. A will will automatically become invalid on the date of a marriage, but it doesn't become invalid if two people start living together. On the other hand, wills can be challenged if someone who should be included isn't (again, I wouldn't go into all those rules here).

Having said all that, keep in mind that if you are writing an L and C fic, they are living in the state of New Troy, so you can probably make up your own laws.

*is amused*

I know several women who married at age 30 and had 5 (or more) kids. So claiming it's biologically unlikely doesn't make sense to me.

Now, claiming that Lois is unlikely to want to have more than 2 or 3 kids -- that strikes me as very likely. But that's a character issue, not a biological one. Certainly 36 is far from the end of most women's ability to gestate healthy children!

Can't tell for all the divorce-marriage-US law related question... which doesn't leaves me much to answer except maybe question 4.

There are Jimmy stories... great ones even. I just can't remember their titles. I did write one (a total crap, honest) 'cause I thought that Jimmy character ought to step out of the shadows of his archive or net researches. I mean, how come Bill Gates hasn't already get rid of the competition by either trying to hire or kill him ?

Which is why, though I totally like the irony and acuity of it, I have to disagree with Tank's answer...

Jimmy's not an uninteresting character, he's just not enough considered. I think he needs some talented writers to pull him out his "supporting character" status and have him steal Lois and Clark's shine for a change.

Scratch that, it's not even steal their shine, it's get what he deserves: a front page article, a decent salary and... a real girlfriend and/or partner so he doesn't have free time to intrude on L&C intimacy moments. He's got good instincts and he could make a terrific photojournalist, for starters.

Frankly, without Jimmy's input at crucial moments, how many front pages would Lois, Clark or the Lane and Kent team have gotten? And would Perry White be the Planet's EiC we know without its appointed goofer?

Carole (who'd better switch into DS mode)

I agree, Carole.

That's why I let Jimmy play an important part in my fic 'There's Always Something'. I wanted him to evolve and 'grow up', just as Clark and Lois did. He doesn't steal their thunder, mind you; to me he is, and always will be, a supporting character. But Jimmy is as important to Lois and Clark as are Perry White and Martha and Jonathan Kent. I can't imagine L&C without these four wonderful characters being part of their lives.

That doesn't mean they always have to be included in a story; we all have our favorite characters and storylines from the series that we like to explore. That's what makes our fandom so diverse and the stories often so exciting!

Ursie

I think it would be physically *possible* for Lois to have 5-7 children, but extremely unlikely characterization-wise.

As for 36 being the end to women safely having children, though, that's silly. Even years ago, women were having them (planned or not) up until age 40 without raising eyebrows (my mom was 38 with me and 39 with my sister), but nowadays, it is not uncommon for women to have children even up to 45. Yes, the risk of birth defects does rise, and yes, you are considered a "high risk pregnancy" by the doctor once you hit 35, but it doesn't mean your risk factors skyrocket the day of your 36th birthday.

That said, assuming Lois has the first child at 32, that only gives her 13 years or so to have children. Seven kids would make her be either pregnant, recovering or nursing for every day of that. Even five kids would be spaced very close together. (And I can tell you that having kids any closer than 2 years apart is extremely difficult, not just emotionally but also physically.)

So I think characterization and realism are the big factors here -- first off, Lois isn't even sure she wants kids, so to have her decide to have seven, or even five, would be an extremely tough sell for me. I can think of some situations where five could happen -- say they have the first two planned, then after a few years decide "one last time", only to have her get pregnant with twins; then at age 44 or whatever, she suddenly has a whoops baby to put them at five -- but I really have to work to come up with that kind of scenario, so seeing in a story would likely pull me out of a story unless it was explained very well.

Then secondly, you have a woman who has an active career. Back to back (to back to back) pregnancies will really hurt her career-wise, like it or not. Not to mention, she would be on a desk job most of the time, which would just kill her.

And thirdly, who is going to take care of all these kids? Daycare is extremely expensive, especially in a city like NYC/Metropolis. Lois and Clark also work long hours. (Clark *super* long hours at that.) I know women who have 4-5 kids with a husband who works long hours (doctors, etc.) and it's tough -- it requires a lot of work on their part and these are stay-at-home-moms. It gets a little easier when the kids are all school aged, but those baby years are extremely difficult without help.

So bottom line, I can't see L&C having any more than 2 or 3 kids. Any more would change their lifestyle not just dramatically but completely.

Kathy

thanks Ursie!

I think I'm gonna find some time to read that fic of yours... i'm sure it's way better that what I did in NGDF.

I must admit Jimmy'll always be the photograph of L&C duo before being the Daily Planet's one... maybe I should put my muse in gear on this photoreporter idea.

Carole

Cyad, in my future-story A Love So Long In The Making, Jimmy became a multiple-award-winning photojournalist, mainly photographing the effects of famine and natural disasters in developing countries.


Wendy

Awwww, spoilers?

Promising title. Now I'm curious and impatient to read it!!

Also thanks for saving me the trouble of waking my muse from her timeless sleep, Wendymr.

Carole

My mum was 39 when I was born and I am 12 years younger than my brouther. As for 7 kids I'd think it'd be highly unlikely that both Lois and Clark would want that many even though Clark does want children I'd think he'd want around 2 or 3 since he wouldn't want to have his children growing up as an only child.

That is a lot of work and it would mean Lois pretty much giving up her career to raise her children not that Clark wouldn't help, but I don't think Lois would want to do that that's not to say she's being selfish because she isn't taking care of 1 or 2 children while managing a career is already hard work let alone having to juggle a career and 7 children.

I wrote a Jimmy fic or two a while ago. They are in the Purple Chaos series, which is a Marvel Xover. It's in the archives. You can also find it on my web site and on ff.net.

I don't think Jimmy is uninteresting. On the contrary, he's a good supporting character with an interesting background and skills that could be expanded on. There's his father who's a spy, all of his computer skills (he probably has some hacking knowledge, even if he only uses it for his job when he has to). Also, considering his friendship with Jack, he probably knows how to pick locks. I think a character like that would be interesting to develop.

Hmm...it depends on the severity of the disability. Does this disabled child have any super powers, or are they normal otherwise? I think a disabled child would figure it out because everyone would underestimate them, and thus be less careful what they say or do around them. L&C might not, but the siblings probably would.

As to number of children, I do think that 5 is a bit too many, especially if they all have super powers and/or one is disabled. Between 2 and 4 would be more realistic, IMHO.