Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related UK versus US English: Smackdown 2004

On 'quaint', you might like to know that to these Brit ears, at least, it sounds faintly condescending:

"How quaint," said Lois, watching the Morris dancers' display in Metropolis's pedestrianised shopping precinct.

...meaning that dressing in britches, wearing bells and slapping wooden batons together is a rather pathetic activity for grown men <g>.

In fact, being referred to as both quaint and British in the same breath *definitely* feels condescending. No doubt it's not intended that way.

Yvonne

Sorry, I did not mean to sound condescending. I hope I have not offended anyone.

Quaint to me is like a cottage in the woods. Dressing in britches, wearing bells and slapping wooden batons together isn't quaint to me.

Anyway, to avoid further offense, I'm editing my previous post.

- Vicki

Funny, I'm used to hearing that. Maybe it's a Minnesota-ism. *scratches head*

OTOH, I'm fairly certain I haven't heard anyone but my grandmother say "Uff da" seriously, or anyone under 40 say "Ya sure, you betcha," at least without a trace of sarcasm. But most Minnesotans do say pop as opposed to soda.

Hey, Vicki, you didn't offend! I just thought it might be useful for you to know, that's all. It's one of those words that has a different flavour over here to over there.

Yvonne

The one that always cracks me up is the use of Sorted in the UK versus Figured out in American. I always laugh when I read one of our Brit writers compromising with Sorted out

Americans figure out the solution to a problem.
We sort our laundry (into whites and colors..or, in my house, whites and blacks .) And we sort out a mess by cleaning up the room so we can find what we're looking for.

Sherry

I'm not sure what you mean here, Sherry, as the UK expression is 'sorted out'. 'Sorted', on its own, is slang, used most often in and around London, and means 'problem taken care of'. Think New York street language of the kind which might occasionally be mimicked by a wider population, as opposed to standard American English.

Yes, we might say that we sorted out a problem, and we sort out (or clear up ) a mess, or sort our laundry. We don't tend to say 'figured out' all that much; instead, we might say 'worked out' - for example, "I worked out what was wrong with my computer." If I were then to add, "...and I sorted it out," that would mean that I also fixed it.


Wendy

LOL Labby! Have we Americanized you?

I've seen different words in books, like headmaster/headmistress vs principal, lippy vs lipstick (maybe that's just slang), and broomstick vs broom.

Canadian English has parts in it from the UK and other parts from the US, which is why I am never sure what exactly to say about it in UK vs US discussions. Let's just say it's Canadian. <g>

Our spelling, from what I've seen, is all UK. favourite, flavour, colour, honour, metre, centre, theatre. I've never noticed there was a difference in "travelling," but I think the double-L seems more Canadian to me.

I've seen 'pissed' and 'pissed off' used here, and like Paul said, pissed is just a lazy way to say 'pissed off.' I don't, however, find it more emphasizing. I use either all the time.

As for 'quite good,' it has the American meaning to my ears. Rather, though, like Lynn said, has that surprised tone I wouldn't find too complimenting.

Momentarily only means "in a moment" to me. I've never actually even thought about it too much.

About present and gift: Although I am aware of the synonymous meaning, I use present more often. I'd say "Christmas presents" and "birthday presents" as opposed to gifts, and probably in any other context. I would probably use gift only as in talent. "You can draw so well, you have such a gift!" or "You are so gifted!"

We use line and not queue. I use "dreamed" and "learned," but I remember a friend of mine correcting me once and saying I should use "dreamt." I didn't stay and argue because he's one of those people with whom the smallest arguements can last an hour and escalate to idiotic proportions, but I haven't noticed anyone else use those. All my friends use "learned" and "dreamed."

And we say "pop," never soda. Soda here is just gassed water. Soda pop, maaaybe..... but generally just pop.

This is the "Canadian English" part of the thread.

Julie

Sherry, I'm not sure what you mean, either. AFAIK, "sorted out" is also a US expression. "... just have to wait until I get it all sorted out, then..." It means something different than "figured out," though.

"Sorted" means put into proper order, squared away, etc. "Sorted out" means getting everything in its proper place, fixing the stuff that's wrong, etc.

"Figured out" is more of a mental process (although you can mentally sort things out, too). You solve the problems in your head by thinking them through. For external problems, you can figure out a plan so you know exactly how to go about sorting things out.

As for quaint... that one's kind of sticky. No offense was intended, but I realize that it is, in a way, a somewhat condescending attitude. My point was that, even if it isn't right, it is a prevelant attitude, in my experience. I was attempting to represent my understanding of the situation, rather than giving my own judgements on the matter. US culture, in general, tends to find certain aspects of UK (and, in particular, english) culture to be quaint and/or charming. The accent alone, for some reason, sounds charming and often cultured and intellectual (as one comic noted, this is true almost regardless of actual content). Now, as with most such sweeping statements, there are a fair number of holes. Things that don't strike people that way, people who aren't struck that way, etc. I think, though, that it holds true as a sort of rule of thumb.

So, when an american uses, for example, "quite" in the way we've been discussing, a hint of that attitude will be in the back of his or her mind (and probably the minds of the listeners). Kind of like playing at being Wells (rather than a modern englishman... At least, that's my impression. The hint itself is vague enough to be hard to pin down, but I think, in this case, it's more of a Victorian or Elizabethan feel.) to add a little flavor to the statement.

Julie - "pissed" and "pissed off" are pretty much interchangable, but there are cases where the "off" is added for emphasis. Like I said, often it's only a very slight difference. Sometimes, though, it's more obvious, as in "I am pissed off!"

Think that's all I've got for now.

Again, apologies if I have inadvertently offended anyone. None was intended.

Paul

Just about all Ohioans say "pop" rather than "soda". I believe most midwesterners say "pop". I never realized it was weird until a football team from Philladelphia came to play St. Ignatius at the football stadium I work at, and a bunch of people that came through the concession stand made fun of us because the word "pop" was on the price board.

- Laura

got/gotten

We use got, well at least in my circle. Ever since I was little gotten was frowned upon.

carer/caregiver

Always the latter up here.

Math/Maths

My Nana ,who is English, always uses Maths and it always sounded wrong to me, even though I found myself using that word from time to time.

Pissed....

Well I think of pissed as meaning drunk and ticked off. Pissed off to me means ticked off too. Well I'm a bit odd. Canadian but grew up in an English household.

I'd use "She lost her purse." "I just received..."

"Have you got your pencil?"
My Nana would never let me say it that way. She considered it incredibly so far from proper. Do you have your pencil sounds better to me by far. Got sounds so blah to me.

Foods - never for me. Hairs sounds gross to me. I like strand of hair.


I wouldn't say it either way.
Clark got angry - I'd say. I never use gotten. That just sounds wrong to me. LOL.

Knocked up/knock her up - all about babies and chicks to me.

Biro - I have not heard that since I was 8 or something! I heard it a few times when I went over the pond and my Nana and Gingin used it, but I guess they dropped it b/c of the blank stares they received!!!!!


I find myself using more of the UK slang/version of stuff when I'm in public and CDN at home! LOL.

I am confused with myself now. I saw that a lot. Now I don't even know what I mean b/c I just realized that my meaning changes! ACK. To me I guess it depends on the inflection I project! I'd lean towards the American usage I guess. Quite does sounds very British to me!


Totally interchangeable to me for the second one. The first well...I'd understand if my family said the first, as I've heard many times but out of my mouth I'd say we're even!

Momentarily - I always translated that as meaning soon.

I was taught that they mean different things, but I find I used them interchangeably.

Brillant - I use it for smart and that was cool.
Though, for both instances, I cannot say that word with my CDN 'accent'. I say it with an English one. HA! Some words I find I cannot say 'normally'. I'd such an oddball.

I agree.

I was taugh all the comma uages. Do I remember them? No. I only remember "use them! They're free!"



UK is used up here in these circumstances. I think here we like to try and be different from Americans as much as possbible and well you all know we CDNs where closer to the UK gang for a longer time than the US. I never get ??? for most of the usage I use like the line/queue stuff.

Me and others here - Dr.

I remember when I was 9/10 when I went over and boy did I have trouble understanding my cousin (my mum's first cousin - same age) who is from Nottingham. Ugh, I didn't have trouble with the others, but her! It was . When she came over here when I was 18 boy did I realize how much of the slang I was clueless with.



Cool Places:
UK-US dictionary!
Cornerstone\'s CDN English Page

The whole million/billion thing sends my head whrilling.

Grammar! Ugh. I could never get it right. Here is just a site.

I like the first paragraph here.
Old discussions:
one

Now if where just talking about slang or language differences I always though this one was hillarious:

BELL n. 1. Telephone call, as in, "Give us a BELL when you get there." TINKLE may also be used, as in, "Give us a TINKLE".
From - http://www.hps.com/~tpg/ukdict/index.php?file=ukdict-2

Tinkle to me means pee! To me "give me a ring when you get home" is so Nanaish/UK. "give me a call" is so CDN and American.

My friend Laura hates using .... favour. She likes favor and so on b/c it is faster to write.
She just goes with what is easier and what comes to her head first. Or how she thinks it should be spelled. Even if it is wrong.

French has issues as well. Sorry if I use the wrong words. People from France poke fun at those who speak Frech who are from Quebec. Quebecers make fun of those who speak French from the rest of Canada. It\'s all very different!!

I have such a difficult time trying to learn 'our' French.

A few that have popped up in recent fic:

"rang off" vs "hung up"

"Call" in the US means on the phone. In the UK, does it still mean physically drop by for a visit? Or is that just "call on"? Here, "call on" can mean visit, but is very rarely used that way. More commonly, it's used in the sense of summoning. "I'll have to call on my ability to..."

"Constraint." I've only ever heard this in the sense of a limitation. Webster's does list a secondary emotional definition, but it's not one I can recall having encountered anywhere but R&R. Anyone want to weigh in on this one? Is it a US/UK thing, is it just me, or is it just Mere? (I think that covers all the options...)

A couple unresolved questions I had from SoMH part 4...

"the only true way to appreciate nature's spectaculars was from inside"

In the US, a "spectacular" is a big show, a spectacale. As in "Epic Stunt Spectacular!"

This is not a sense of the word I can recall having seen, and I'm not quite sure what word I would use for it. "Glories," perhaps, or "wonders." Better yet, "the wonders of nature." "Nature's spectaculars" tells me that nature is putting on huge blockbuster shows, very likely with an admission charge, and almost certainly with some form of fireworks.

"And way, way too close to her partner's throat than she liked."

In the US, we'd say "Way, way too close for comfort," "Far closer than she liked," or just "Way too close." We would not say "Way closer than she liked" (unless we were, say, Jimmy), nor would we say "too close than she liked."

Paul

P.S. Roo -- commas may be free for you, but I recycle mine. I keep a Bin of Used Commas here on my desk. Whenever I have to take one out, it goes *plink* into the bin, for later reuse. In a pinch, I can even clip the tails and make periods, colons, or semi-colons.

, Paul!

I used to keep my Used Commas in my bin, but there aren't any in there anymore-- they keep disappearing, like my paper clips and pens. So now I use it for Ellipses... I have more of them, anyway.

~Toc (who came in late on this conversation because she spent the WHOLE day updating her Girl Scout website)

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif"> "I quite enjoyed it."

- to me, all mean that the thing being described was just okay. Somewhat good. Acceptable. But I am aware that North Americans who have described a story part as 'quite good' mean it as a compliment. Go figure! If I said, "Wow! That was quite good," well...that would mean I'd thought about it and while it may be good, it just didn't move me all that much.

I noticed once or twice that someone (think it was Wendy ) said "on second thoughts." I wondered if maybe it was a typo at the time, but now I'm not so sure. Here in the US, we say "on second thought."

A few I learned and was quite amused with (okay...in *that* case, "quite" is a good thing ) when I met a British friend:

UK: jelly
US: jello (you know the jiggly gelatin )

UK: swimming costume
US: bathing suit

(you know...for some reason, though it makes me snicker, the UK version sounds like a more intelligent description...cause, come on, who really wears their bathing suit to take a bath? :rolleyes: )

Loving this thread, Lynn...and I was when I saw that there were 30 more posts by the time I got home! <g>

Sara (who is really *quite* sleep deprived and *should* go to bed...yeah, that'll happen! )

Can't seem to keep away from this thread. <g>

Okay, SuperRoo, you've piqued my interest. How does 'gift' differ from 'present' (excluding the use of 'gift' in the sense that someone has a talent)?

Paul, I don't personally use 'call' in the sense of visiting someone. I might 'drop by' my friend's house on my way home, or I'll 'go round to' my sister's for tea.

Toc, they mean the same thing: a school which isn't funded by the state. Mind you, I suppose it's perhaps only the older private schools like Eton and Rugby which are also referred to as public schools. We'd have never called our local private schools in Aberdeen public schools.

[quote]In the UK, you can have a drug store[quote]
All such shops, whether or not they have a pharmacy inside, are generally called chemists in the UK. No idea why. <g> Edit: Just remembered - if you want to fill a prescription in the UK, you'd look for the nearest 'dispensing chemist' and once inside, you'd head for the 'dispensary'. Who knows - this might actually be useful information, if you ever fall ill whilst holidaying in the UK. <g>

Yvonne

Boy, if you're not fast on the uptake, you end up way down in the thread!

Wendy, actually, I was not aware that "sorted" by itself was idiomatic. And that's the one that always amuses me. Paul, we aren't in disagreement. But I don't consider "sorted out" and "figured out" synonymous. And I read many times the use of "sorted out" where I would think "figured out".

Sherry

I think the most surprising thing this thread has shown me is how many phrases Americans think are commonly used today in the UK, but which - for me at least - are very old-fashioned and haven't been used for decades.

Call on is a good example. It could just be my neck of the woods, of course <G>, and other regions of the UK may vary. Language varies throughout the UK as much as it does through the various US states.

But for me - I think using call on in Paul's context was last heard in the '50's, wasn't it? It's more likely you'll hear someone say, "I visited Carol last week." or "Popped in to see John the other day."

I thought I'd dealt with the 'unresolved questions' you mention from SOMH, Paul. Apologies if I somehow missed that back there in the fdk folders. Minor UK/US variations in perception/vocabularly aside, I'm of the opinion that the meaning of both examples should be clear from the context in which they are used. So I don't anticipate there being enough reader confusion to warrant my changing anything with them.

LabRat

I, on the other hand, was initially taught not to put a preposition right before or after who/what/where etc. and put it in the end of the sentence instead. But when I grew older and my English began depending too much on what I was seeing/hearing/reading etc., I began using the other forms I suggested, as well. They sounded just as good I used to think the English I had been taught in school or by my father (who had been teaching me for a year, before I began English classes at school) were UK English, but I'm not so sure anymore.

I just remembered the realize/realise issue. Not sure if I remember it correctly, but I think the original UK spelling is with z, but, whereas it survived in the US, now the UK uses the s spelling.

Also, talking about expressions: I have an aunt (well, she's not really an aunt, but that's not our point) who's Greek but has been living for decades in the US, Philadelphia to be exact, visited us this year and we talked a lot in English. At some point, she used the phrase "I wouldn't let him get the better of (or off?) me" (=I wouldn't let him win) and said it was a purely American expression.

And, now that I mention of/off, maybe there's a UK vs. US usage there too?

a) I want to get this off my chest
b) I want to get this off of my chest

I remember asking about this on IRC, and Wendy telling me "off of my chest? Ick!" or something to that effect I'm pretty sure I've seen b) used, but then, people do make mistakes when they speak/write. (Although I'd bet that it's much more difficult to make a mistake in English than it is in Greek )

Thanks for the answers, everyone! I'm sure this thread has a long way to go yet.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Anna,

At some point in time, I was also taught the rule about not putting prepositions at the end of sentences. But rules are made to be broken, right? For whom are these flowers? sounds odd and stilted. Who are these flowers for? sounds natural and 'right', even though it is technically 'wrong'.

Funny you should bring up realise/realize, because just yesterday I was reading a story with that word in it (sorry, I can't remember which one), and the way it was spelled just looked funny to me. But, since I am a notoriously poor speller, I didn't think anything of it. I didn't realize that this was another UK/US thing.

The expression your aunt used was to "get the better of someone". I didn't know that this was a uniquely American expression.

Finally, I've only ever heard "off my chest", never "off of my chest".

- Vicki

PS - As long as I'm here, can anyone explain what a solicitor is? Is it just another word for lawyer, or is there a difference between the two?

PPS - What I just wrote brings something else to mind. I said "a uniquely". Would UK English use "an uniquely" or no? I know my KJV Bible says things like "an unicorn" but I don't know if that is an archaic usage or not.

Wow, this thread wasn't here when I looked yesterday! A lot of interesting discussions.

As far as quaint goes, whether it's a good thing or not, I think it all depends on the tone of voice. For instance, a tourist in Holland (Michigan) might see some clog dancers and exclaim "How quaint!" in glee and interest. Conversely, Lois might be stranded somewhere, and see an old-style phone without a dial (where you press the handle a few times to get the operator) and mutter "How quaint" in disgust. However, "quite" and "quaint" together keeps bringing to mind an episode of Tiny Toons, when Babs and Buster were saying in snooty voices, "How quaint. Quite. Quite quaint" or something along those lines.

"Clark got angry" vs "Clark had got/gotten angry" -- The other day on IRC we had a discussion on past tense, and past perfect tense. The first phrase would be used in the past tense, as in most of the stories here. The second phrase would be used when relating something in the story that had happened previously, as in a memory. The rest is up to US/UK differences.

"For whom" is grammatically correct, but not socially correct. If you say "whom" in a normal conversation, at least in the US, people will look at you oddly. This can go with eether/ayther when pronouncing either, also. I've trained myself to say ayther instead of eether because I thought it sounded better, and my boss has ragged me about it a few times.

I've heard solicitor to mean lawyer, but that was usually only in UK terms. To me, a solicitor is annoying people who try to sell you stuff. "Who was that at the door?" "Gah, just another stupid solicitor." Though, even then, I think I'd use salesman, but both will work.

I think I've read so many US, UK, and older stories, that my mind tends to translate idioms on the fly. Either that, or my brain isn't picking up all the words, and just going by context. It's only when it's really different that I get thrown.

Here's what the American Heritage Dictionary has to say about "momentarily":
I can think of tons of vocabulary differences between US and UK English - as it happens, I'm busy doing a US-to-UK translation of a book right now - but the word order/inclusion things are harder to remember. I know adverbs are occasionally placed differently, for instance, but I can't think of an example. (I blame staying up till 4:30... not age, nope.)

British English also seems to be more scrupulous about hyphenating phrases which are used as adjectives. For example, "user-defined data" rather than "user defined data".

Cool topic, Lynn!

Mere

Edited to add (didn't notice the second page till now!): "get the better of" is perfectly good UK English. And Karen - "ay-ther"? I've never heard that. I say "eye-ther", and commonly hear "ee-ther".