Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related FFQ: about time paradox relating to time traveling

Okay, we have a story premise (yet again). However, due to the set up of this plot, we can't quite figure out a way around a time paradox for it to end happily ever after.

This is our premise. Assume that Person A in 1994 has found a way to communicate with Person B in 1997. Person B realises in 1997 that Person A died sometime in 1994, and frantically tries to warn Person A (without any idea whether he/she succeeded in doing so).

Person A avoids this brush with death. In 1997, Person A meets Person B for the first time, before all that correspondence begins. Person A remembers Person B (because of the past correspondence) but as far as Person B's concerned, Person A is a total stranger.

We are trying to work out the perspective of Person B. Since nobody physically travels through time, can Person B change the outcome of certain events in the past, thus changing the present, and yet forgetting the memory of that interference? But if Person B forgets that the interference ever took place, how will Person B remember to do it when the time comes for the interference to take place? And if Person B never remembers the correspondence at all (since it hasn't occured yet) how is it possible for Person A to finally meet Person B?

I'm not sure if I've described my problem clearly here. Please email me if you need further clarification. We're open to all possibilities, as long as Person A and Person B both never travel through time, and belong in the same universe.

The problem with living with another active FoLC (in this case, meclone2) is that we discuss a story premise to the death over breakfast, lunch, dinner, trying to fall asleep, commuting.... you get the idea. Ironically, we never get round to writing it. :p With any luck, this one may actually get written. :p

Thanks so much.


metwin1

it all depends on how you set up the way time travel works.

it should actually be just fine, as far as i can tell. you just need to use the "interfering in the timestream causes a parallel universe to come into existance" version of time travel (which, really, is the one that makes the most sense, imo).

now, many authors have a single closed timeline, where cycles can occur. isaac asimov (one of my first favorite writers) wrote one like that called "the end of eternity." i won't go over the whole book, but it dealt with a closed loop (guy goes back in time so he can teach another guy how to create the first time machine...). the thing is that loops like that have no logical entry point. if guy #2 needed guy #1 to come back and teach him how to make a time machine an guy #1 couldn't go back in time without a time machine, then how could it ever have happened?

what you need is a system of parallel universes. guy #1 goes back in time, talks to guy #2. that trip spins off an alternate universe. then, if guy #1 goes forwards in time again, he goes into the future of the second universe, not back to his original universe (unless he has a way to travel between universes).

so, in your case, here's what happens:

person B talks to person A. it doesn't matter that person B hasn't physically travelled back in time. there's been a change made. as a result of that change, person A survives. the trick is that person A's survival is a result of a change in the timestream. that means that we're dealing with another universe.

in universe 1, person A died, and person B called back in time.

in universe 2, person A lived, which means that Person B has no reason to call back in time and also has no memory of having called back in time (because the person B of this universe never made the call).

it can be a little tricky if there's more than one call (technically, the second call should go to Person A of the original universe, not the person A living in the parallel universe which was created by the first call) but it can be dealt with.

you can just gloss over that bit, and i'm sure no one will mind.

you could give person B an equipment upgrade, so that he remains "locked" onto the "correct" person A, even if they are in different universes.

another possibility is to dump the "parallel universe" thing. rather, you have a single self-correcting universe. person B makes the call. the timestream after the point at which person A recieves the call has now been altered. still, person B has made the original call, and may well remember having done so. after all, there's still reason for person B to have made that first call. after subsequent calls, however, person A avoids the brush with death. at that point, person B has no reason to call back in time. the change has been made, and the timeline progresses from there. since there was no reason for person B to have made the call, however, person B will not make the call and will have no memory of having done so. persona A is alive because the person B of the *original timeline* made the call. if it helps, think of it as a parallel universe which ceased to exist once the new one split off.

does any of this make sense to you? does it solve your problem?

Paul, off in a universe of his own...

Well, you could make it a closed loop, I think... lemme see if I can work this out so that *I* can make sense of it, never mind anyone else I'm arbitrarily picking months, just to illustrate.

June 1994 -- Person A first gets a call from Person B; after some get-to-know-you chats, Person B warns Person A to avoid certain death.

August 1994 -- Person A would have died, but now doesn't. No more contact occurs.

April 1997 -- Person A (3 years older) meets Person B (who is 3 months *younger* and clueless).

July 1997 -- Person A realizes just in time that a call still needs to be made -- or the Aug 1994 encounter will be fatal, Person A will retroactively disappear, and that would throw a huge spanner into the working of space/time. (This can be elaborated out into threatening the existence of the whole universe if you want to get that dramatic about it) Person A tells Person B how to make the call (STAR Labs?) (Person B might think the whole thing's insane and initially refuse to cooperate). Person B then makes the original calls, without letting on that B knows anything about A. To keep up tension we can worry about whether the machine will hit the time it's supposed to contact, or go somewhere else. It's so difficult to aim these things, you know. Person A can dramatically flicker in and out, etc.

Timeline saved, Person A stays alive, Person B now knows all, and we can get on with living happily ever after.

This will work best if you write it all in one linear timeline -- showing just Person A's side of the conversation in 1994 at first, and only revealing Person B's side of it when the story gets to July of 1997. If I were doing it, I'd have Person B slip once or twice, and refer to things that he/she shouldn't know about Person A, but keep it ambiguous.

Of course, that may not be what you're thinking of at all <g> but what the heck, I had fun working it out.

The theory, as best as I can tell, is a mix of Robert A. Heinlein's "The Door Into Summer" and the movie Back to the Future. I think.

PJ

metwin1, I noticed one thing that Paul and Pam seem to have missed, though I like both of their approaches.

You said.

This says to me that Person A in 1994 did the initial contacting of the Person B in 1997. If I am wrong in this, then you can skip the following.

So, using Pam's hypothetical time-line with some modifications....

June 1994 -- Person A first calls Person B; after some get-to-know-you chats, Person B warns Person A to avoid certain death.

August 1994 -- Person A would have died, but now doesn't.

April 1997 -- Person A (3 years older) meets Person B (who is 3 months *younger* and clueless).

June 1997 -- Person B gets a call from Person A. Person B informs Person A that A's younger self is communicating with him. Person A remembers the warning and has Person B inform A's younger self.

Not nearly as dramatic but, it does solve the paradox issue.

You could have weird and strange time related events start to take place between 1994 and 1997 showing that the universe is having a hard time dealing with the stress of the situation until A calls again, but it is up to you.


Edited:

Whoops, just realized that you had a second question.

Easy. Person A is grateful that Person B saved their life. Person A could intentionally seek out B, if for no other reason to make sure that B has the information necessary to save A's life when A eventually calls B in a couple of months.

James

Thanks so much for all your help. You all have given us some ideas. We'll work out the details and perhaps begin writing soon.


metwin1