Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Berlin Wall (fall) questions

Yes, they definitely had some overseas stuff.

I like Francine. I really like her. I understand why others don't, but I like her.

What I don't understand is why some people hate Joe. I love Joe. He was a great guy. Honorable, intelligent, generous, polite, respectful, etc. Yes, he and Amanda are divorced, but it was amicable and not a case of him being a bad guy and Amanda some poor victim. He lives away from his children, but knows what's going on in their lives and they know he loves them and we see that once he moves back to the area, he is very involved in their lives - it's plain that he was as involved as he could be before, even though he lived away from them. I don't think moving away (especially to do what he does) makes him a bad guy. I sometimes think that some people just want to villify him because he was important to Amanda, and still is, in a fashion. I see things said about him in fics that directly contradict the show, and several more things that contradict his depiction on the show. Like he's going to try to steal Amanda from Lee or turn his kids against Lee - that's the opposite of how he's portrayed on the show and is OOC. Bugs me.

I love Dotty, too. I do wonder how much she suspects about what's going on. I mean, we see later in the series that she definitely notices that Amanda gets herself into strange situations (coming home "scorched," I think she said), but I just don't know.

Heck, I like the kids, too. I have a special affinity for Jamie, though. And he's the kid most fans least prefer.

I don't prefer the last season as much, but it's not because they got married or because Francine got more eps and Amanda got less screentime. I just didn't like Dr. Smyth.

For the fall, I was thinking of absolutely everyone on the phone, on the computers, on radios, everyone trying to get information. Even having a tv wheeled in there with CNN, on, maybe - anything to get as much information as possible.

And I was thinking of Lee grousing about one of Lois' earlier stories. After all, Lee doesn't like reporters because "they're always trying to stir things up" and Lois is great at stirring things up. I know agents sometimes leak things to reporters that they want leaked, but of course, reporters also try to get more stuff. Lucky for them Lois isn't in D.C. covering that beat, because she'd never be content with just the table-scraps given her.

It came as a real surprise, apparently to a lot of people including large chunks of the East German government - their police and intelligence departments were abruptly faced with criminal charges and wholesale job losses. Someone once told me that the amount of spy fiction published plummeted for several months immediately afterwards. My brother-in-law's brother was in Berlin just a few weeks later, and happened to mention recently that there were already forged pieces of the wall on sale, "with the paint still dripping," all of the good bits had already gone.

I can't tell you anything new that hadn't been mentioned here cause I've been only 3 years old at that point and all my knowledge comes from what my parents told me (I lived in the GDR) about it. It's never actually been a topic in school

I just wanted to tell you how amazed I am that so many people (especially Americans) here know what happened, that it was an issue for them and that they can still remember how they felt that time.
You often come across that stereotype of the overly patriotic Yanks who wouldn't know anything about the existence of the wall let alone its downfall (yeah, I know, I'm a fan of exaggeration).

And here I see that you probably know more about it than I do

Thanks a lot for that insight!

Jana

PS: Hopefully I didn't offend anybody by that comment. At least, I didn't intend to do so, I just wanted to show my delight

I think that writers just can't seem to get it right. There is still sexual tension in marriages (well, duh...), and I think writers could do it a lot better. But didn't Scarecrow and Mrs. King actually end up being cancelled because of Kate Jackson's bout with breast cancer that left her unable to actually really do much on the show?


Oh, man, that must definitely be a stereotype, because believe me, Americans were very aware of the wall. As someone else said, it was a icon for the 'iron curtain'. We learned about the wall in school (or at least I did). I learned about this in my high school World History and American History classes and also in college in my American History and Government classes. Yes, we Americans are far more aware of what goes on in the world than some folks (or governments) would like to give us credit for. I'm glad you have gained some insight.

I was about 8 when the wall came down, my sister was half a year old. We were behind that wall and quite a bit away. I remember the horror stories the adults told each other about those fleeing in the big wave headed east. I don't remember the actual opening of the wall, but my father likes to tell the story on how one of his colleague took a cab and told the flabbergasted driver to get him to the West, they ended up straight in Hamburg which is half the country away.
And otherwise my family tells about how in some places work virtually stopped, because everyone wanted to go the West.
We still had school Saturday back than, but that time got short and shorter, till eventually we didn't have to go to school Saturday.

When the "Begrüßungsgeld" (greetings money) was issued, we stuffed everybody into a our brand new car (compared to what was available in the West, it was nowwhere near the standards) and drove to the West. They had just taken a part out of the fence (we weren't in Berlin, so just some fences for us, deadly fences), we actually missed it, but on of the soldiers waved to us as we came back. It was so cold and the line so long. I can barely remember how we spend the money afterwards in a nearby consumer markets.

I got to visit my great-grandmother and great-aunt in West Berlin, it was so unbelievable, all these things in the shops and all the things we suddenly saw and could get.

We could visit my aunt and uncle near Düsseldorf, it was about Christmas, it two was just so incredible, all the things to see, all the things I got.

We had gotten things before from our relatives, things they brought with when they came to visit or send, but to actually be surrounded by so many different things and all of them so flashy. The tons of toys in just one little section of a gigantic store.

I'm getting tears in the eyes whenever I see documentations about that time, reading this thread made me tear up, too (not all of them tears of joy, in the frenzy following the fall, many things got torn down and discarded, things and ideas Germany might have benefitted from, but I hope for all other countries that are still separated, that they can tear down their walls, too, families shouldn't be torn apart and kept from seeing each other, where ever and when ever they want).

Wow, I can hardly believe how much you remember! I was your age (still am, I'd wager..), and I don't really remember anythin. But then, I live near Cologne and was not involved with the changes because it didn't affect me in any way.

But I do remember seeing the fireworks on TV, as well as all the people at the "Brandenburger Tor" and other places, people from both Germanies (so to speak) hugging and crying for joy, others grabbing (and carrying off) pieces of the wall...

Yep, I am aswell

It's a actually a pity that one (well, at least I) can't really avoid being affected by those prejudices because there are so many people who tell you that they heard of somebody who knows somebody who has read...
Though one tries to ignore that and stay neutral, the best way to get rid of these clichés is to be enlightened like this

Jana

Yep, the 9th of November, 1989. It was like the world pardigm had shifted. I remember Peter Jennings announcing from the top of the wall. I was working for the US Defense Department at the time and can safely say, no one expected it. There were signs of cracks in the communist regime, but no one expected a dramatic display like that. It was the beginning of a real hope for world peace that lasted until 9/11.
If you want to understand what the world atmosphere was like back then, go see "The Good Shepherd" with Matt Damon.
On a SMK note, I sat with Beverly Garland at the last LAFF and mentioned how much I enjoyed her on SMK, but she didn't really respond. I don't know if it was just a job to her, or she had a bad time. She had been enthusiastic about some of her other roles and, of course, Ellen Lane.

Artemis
P.S. I'm a bit of a numerology freak and it is interesting to compare 9/11 and 11/9 (US = Sept. 11 and November 9) and (Europe = November 9 and September 11)

I don't remember much about the fall of the wall itself--I was really young. I remember seeing people on TV with chisels and stuff, and asking my parents why they had them. They explained to me--in little kid speak--about the war when the wall was put up and how everybody was happy that it was coming down.