Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Merry Christmas, Happy Holidays, etc

Over the past week or so, we've had a series of negative topics on IRC. People venting various frustrations. I understand that, but, at the same time, each one hurt just a little to look at (they all affected me at least tangentially). The latest one was about Christmas.

Now, I realize this can be a touchy subject, but I'm asking, as a favor, that whatever you think about the next few paragraphs, for you to please read the end.

I live in the US, where something like 90% of the population identifies itself as some type of Christian. The US also has a capitalistic and rather commercial society (which has its good and bad points).

This means that when a certain time of year rolls around, Christmas is everywhere.

Imagine, if you will, that you're a member of some minority. Take your pick. The US is also a country built out of a conglomoration of minorities.

You walk around, and every store you see has decorations for a holiday you don't celebrate. Inside, every one is playing music for that holiday. In the car, just about every radio station is also playing that music. Various people greet you, casually assuming that you celebrate the same holiday. You get home, turn on the TV, and every commercial is playing the music and putting up the signs that the holiday is coming and it's time to get ready.

In short, everywhere you turn, there's a reminder that something big is going on that you're not a part of. That everyone else is doing something, and they all half expect that you are, too.

And it goes on, nonstop, for six whole weeks. A month and a half.

After a while, you start to feel kind of... marginalized.

Now, with the PC wave that swept over the country in the 90s, things started to change. People got the courage to put up a hand and say, "uhm, that's not my holiday. I don't celebrate it. I do something else." What they were asking for was a little courtesy. An acknowledgement that they exist, too, and that they have their own customs and holidays.

The neat thing about midwinter is that pretty much every culture has some kind of holiday. Possibly because midwinter, with its cold temperatures, bare trees, shorter days, lower light levels, etc. is one of the most potentially depressing times of the year.

So, the guys in charge of stuff looked for a way to include everyone. Which, after all, is one of the major founding principles of the US -- that, because we're made up of so many minorities, it's important to not just cater to the majority, but to respect and include as many different people as possible.

They came up with the phrase "Happy Holidays." To me, it's an aknowledgement of what I just said -- that, whether or not you celebrate Christmas, odds are you have some kind of holiday this time of year. Something to celebrate or observe in your own way. It's bigger than Christmas because it's inclusive. "Whatever you celebrate, however you celebrate, enjoy it!"

But, as the movement grew, as people and companies strove to become more inclusive, there was a backlash. People in the majority who saw Christmas becoming less pervasive. People who felt "Happy Holidays" was a bland and generic greeting with no real spirit to it. People who felt, ironically enough, like their holiday was being marginalized.

The way I see it, now's the time for those in the 10% to extend a little courtesy back. To understand that the majority has something to celebrate together, and not to get in the way of that.

(While hopefully being given the same respect in return.)

The situation as a whole can be easily remedied. It just calls for everyone to be kind, respectful, courteous, understanding, sympathetic... In short, to have a little Christmas spirit. Or, to be more inclusive, to feel the spirit of the season.

Of course, although I've been using the good old familiar USA to make my point, I think it applies just as well outside these bordes. (Remember: Be inclusive!)

I want to start that off here and now.

So, I'll give you the longer version of what I put up in channel.

Everyone, whoever you are, wherever you are, whatever you do, I want you all to have a Merry Christmas, a Happy Chanukah, a Cheerful Kwanza, a (belated) Peaceful Ramadan, a Joyful Solstice, and a generally blissful holiday season!

(If I've forgotten anyone, please add yourself and let me know!)

There's a lot to celebrate, people. Have a good time, be of good cheer, and remember to spread the spirit of the season to everyone, whatever their traditions may be.

Paul

But isn't this simply part and parcel, Paul, of living in a country which is, as you say, predominately Christian?

If I were living in Israel, wouldn't I feel the same way about Jewish holidays and traditions? Or any country for that matter that wasn't predominately of the same faith/non-faith/traditions as my own?

Would I expect them to fit themselves around me? Or would I expect to fit in with them?

IMO, the latter applies. If I happen to be living in a country that celebrates holidays and traditions not my own, it's my problem, not theirs, if I stay outside that and feel out of step. Surely it's better to participate and be part of my adopted nation? You don't have to believe in something to be part of it. Isn't exploring other cultures, traditions and faiths a good thing, as well as celebrating your own?

If I was living in Israel, I think I'd be finding their holiday traditions a fascinating time. A time to learn and find fun and warmth in exploring something unknown.

If a stranger on the street smiled at me, greeted me warmly - who cares what the greeting is? A friendly face, an atmosphere of warmth is something to embrace, no matter if the actual words have meaning for you or not.

Yes, sensitivity to others is a very good thing and something to encourage - and I haven't forgotten that's the main point of your post. <G> A worthy thought. But imo how marginalised someone feels at such times is very much down to the choices they make and not the responsiblity of anyone else.

Just another thought to add to the mix.

LabRat

It's a point, Lab. Like I said, courtesy needs to go both ways.

OTOH, Israel was founded as a Jewish nation, just as many other countries have official religions.

The US isn't like that, and I think it's a good thing.

Our earliest European settlers were, in large part, people from religious minorities. Quakers, Puritans, Shakers, Jews, etc. People who took on the risks and hardships of leaving everything they knew to cross an entire ocean in vessles barely able to make the trip, only to have to rebuild everything from scratch when (and if) they got there -- an almost unthinkable choice -- because they thought it was worth it to escape the rule of a religious majority. So that they and their decendants would have the freedom to keep their own practices, without having to worry that those practices were different from the rest of the country.

It's an oversimplification, but there's truth to it.

What I'm saying is that we need to respect everyone.

And sure, appreciating other traditions is a very worthy persuit. The world would be a much better place if we all took the time to do that. Unfortunately, it's a huge project. Personally, I'm starting a little smaller.

Oh, and in the spirit that I'm taking about and trying to promote, when someone does wish me a Merry Christmas, I generally respond with a smile and a Happy Chanukah.

I mentioned the greetings because it's part of the whole package, none of which individually would be bad. Put it all together, though, for so long, and it's, well... relentless. I've heard enough Christians complaining about that.

Marginilization may be in the mind of the person feeling it. It may be easier to see it when it's happening to you than to the "other side." The fact is, though, that what the people around you do does affect you. To some degree, it's how you take things, but to some degree, it's what's being dished out. Both matter, and, come to think, that's my point, too.

Think positive, act positive, I guess. Try not to take offensive too easily, but also try to remember not to give it, either.

Anyway, thanks for your thoughts, Lab.

Happy Merry Etc.

(And, finally, even if it is technically 7am here... Good night. )

Paul

P.S. Sorry if my original post seemed too one-sided. I guess I spent a lot more time on the 10% than the 90, but my point at the end was that it's the same situation, really, so I didn't think of it in those terms until now.

Well, you and I have talked about this one before, Paul, and I do sympathise. However, I'm one of those who absolutely loathes the expression 'Happy Holidays'. It's not from any backlash against taking Christ out of Christmas or anything like that; it's just that the expression (which I never heard growing up, as it's not used on the eastern side of the Atlantic) feels so... meaningless.

So I would much prefer - and be delighted, as well - to wish you a Happy Hannukah. And - last month, of course, our Muslim friends an Eid saeed.

By the way, speaking of in-your-face holidays which not everyone celebrates, St Patrick's Day has a huge profile in the US, yet the Irish are far from the largest ethnic group...


Wendy

Give Americans an excuse to drink, and you've got yourself a holiday. Irish for a day. Come October, we're all German for a week for Oktoberfest

But in all seriousness, I think that's one of the redeeming qualities of this country - we're a conglomerate of cultures. So, hopefully, we're all willing to learn and be tolerant of other cultures and customs. In my hometown, we have the Tucson Meet Yourself for just that reason.

Anyway, I'm straying off topic.

I wanted to mention that Paul has a point. A good one, even taking into account Labrat's also good point.

In a country that claims freedom of (and from!) religion, maybe a little more consideration should be given to those of us who don't fall into the majority percentage.

Me, I like to just think about the "spirit of the season," the time of year when everyone's a bit nicer, more courteous, more generous. That's really the only time I feel the "magic" of the whole holiday season.

Sara

I hear ya, Paul.

I'm Chinese, Russian and Philipina, and my family isn't religious at all. However, every December, we celebrate "Christmas" anyway. Not the religious Christmas but the commercial one that stands for good will and giving, love and all that jazz, but we call it the same name as the religious holiday, just because it's the commonly used name. On the other hand, we don't celebrate the Chinese midwinter thing, roughly translated to "Passing Winter", because I guess it's more of an agricultural celebration. My family and I happily wish everyone "Merry Christmas" and we have no problem hearing the same being said back to us.

Therefore, when I wish people "Merry Christmas", I essentially mean "Happy Holidays/winter celebration thing" and I don't mean to offend anyone by using the traditionally religious reference. That's why it always sort of irks me when people get all testy and tell me they don't celebrate Christmas when I say "Merry Christmas" to them. I mean, I can understand and appreciate that, but all I want is just to wish everyone a happy winter holiday; what I say is just a set of words. I'm not even religious myself. Heck, I'd never be offended if someone wished me a Happy Kwanzaa or Happy Ramadan or Happy Diwali or Happy Hanukkah or anything.

Since I've learned that "Happy Holidays" is more PC, I've just taken to using that instead despite the generic-ness of the phrase, just because it will work for everyone, I won't offend anyone accidentally (because people get to be so worked up over that) and it still showcases my well-meaning, even though I instinctively want to say "Merry Christmas".

I like this inclusion thing.

Chriscy

Just to throw in a small work story since it consumes my life lately...

You know, I've been cringing the last few days at work because my co-workers have started wishing everyone a 'merry Christmas' at the tail-end of the sales. And I worry about the other 10% you mentioned. I really do. Not everyone in the store is shopping for a Christmas gift. Granted, almost everyone is, but I always suspect there are one or two people in there who aren't going to celebrate. And I feel bad for them. So I just wish everyone a good day/afternoon/night and stay away from the holiday minefield altogether.

And I suppose this is a nice opportunity to simply wish everyone a good week since I leave tomorrow morning to visit my internet-less relatives :p for Christmas.

Peace,
JD

I went to Godiva last week for a box for my mom. The salesguy was really nice, but his thank you spiel was 2 minutes long! Happy holidays, Merry Christmas, Happy Hannukah, have a good holiday season, hope your mom enjoys the chocolates, thank you, and come again. There was a lot more to it than that, and had me laughing as I was going out the store. Especially when he was trying to remember everything that he had to say!

Sometimes, trying to remember and say everything is a bit too much.

And a Pleasant Christmahannukwanzuladan to all!

I always go by the assumption that Merry Christmas is fine, since we are in the US, on a one on one basis. If they wish to inform me that they don't celebrate Christmas, I will ask them what they do celebrate and file that factoid for the next time we meet.

I work for an international company, so we are not encouraged to leave specific holiday refs in voice or emails, but if we are going to be gone due to a US holiday, then it's ok to make mention of it.

If I am dealing with someone who I know their ethnic/religious background, I will wish them a (insert the appropriate holiday)in closing. It just seems the decent thing to do.

James

As a rule, I wish people a Merry Christmas at this season of the year. This is not an attempt to push religion on anyone. It is merely a wish for them to have a happy time whether or not they are celebrating Christmas or any other holiday -- or none at all. I wouldn't be in the least insulted if someone wished me a Happy Hannukah or even just "Have a nice day." -- although some people, I understand, even get insulted at that, because they seem to interpret it as an order to have a nice day, and they don't want to be told what to do. Go figure.

In any case, Christmas is a traditional holiday that people have every right to celebrate. So are many others, and I wouldn't dream of telling someone of another faith that the celebration of his holiday offends me. I expect the same courtesy in return.

Nan

Intersting topic. There is a song that sings about Happy Holidays and I think that is about as inclusive of everyone as you can get. If I know someone is Christian, I wish them a Merry Christmas, if I know someone is Jewish I wish them a Happy Chaunuka and If I suspect someone is other I will either say the whole string of Merry happies or I will say Have a wonderful and healthy holiday.

The thing that bothers me a bit as a teacher, is that the minority is taking the holiday out of schools. I was told that we can not even have a turkey on childrens bulliton boards now for fear of insulting indiginous people. Santa is not allowed to show his face at all for fear of insulting those that celebrate Chaunuka and Ramidon etc.
"Why do the minority have to take over the majority? Why cant we have all holidays represented instead of no holidays represented?

Baa humbug is the general feeling I am seeing around schools these days. Oh well, so much for my 2 cents. I wish you all a Happy and Healthy version of what ever holiday you celebrate.

Laura

I think people get too uptight and like to be offended. For those people, I feel sorry for them. To me, Christmas is absolutely the best time of the year. What other holiday can you say lasts for over a month, leads to many vacation days, and gives you the chance to be with family for the longest possible time?

The official national holiday is Christmas, so I celebrate it and would never be offended if someone wished me a merry Christmas. If people choose not to celebrate, that's their option, but please don't spoil it for the rest of us by trying to get stores to stop putting up trees or saying, "Merry Christmas," to their shoppers. I actually get suspicious when somebody says the neutral, "Happy Holidays," to me and usually respond back with "Merry Christmas!" And if someone wishes me a "Happy Chanukah" on the other hand, I'll respond back in kind.

If you choose to celebrate a different way through Chanukah or other holidays, then more power to you. My wish is for everyone to have a good time around this holiday season and to stop worrying about political correctness. I, for one, am one of the least politically correct people around.

With all that said, some would probably be surprised to find that I'm an agnostic. To me, Christmas is just the best time of the year and more fun than all the other holidays put together. I enjoy the holiday with or without the religious overtones and prefer not to overanalyze it to the point where it's no fun anymore.

So to sum it all up, Merry Christmas everyone! And have a happy New Year!

I'm not religious (I'm suppose to be Anglican)- I don't believe in a god/godess (the thought is comforting and beautifully romantic to me. I get a warm fuzzy when I see how devoted some people are to their faith and how it can give them strength).

Yet I celebrate Christmas.

As I said last year I was brought up exposed to all sorts of religions and other snazzy stuff. Just like many people are.

I get afraid of offending people and I *hate* that. Sometimes I get a bit frustrated when everyone is telling me Merry Christmas and if I'm in a funky mood I'll say Happy Hanakkah . . . in honour of my great grandma. I don't know why, but I thought she was awesome and I remember her at this time of the year.

I wish everyone could be happy and just go with the flow and celebrate and be happy that everyone can have the opportunity to celebrate what makes them feel good inside and safe - even if it is *nothing* because to utter "Merry Christmas" is considered offensive (J.Witness).

To me happy holidays is equilvant to Merry Christmas. I just never thought of it more than that. Though, I have used it in the sence to celebrate everyone's various celebrations.

I don't know what I believe in, I don't know why I have the tree up. Angels are beautiful and I'll study them in a history, but make me uncomfortable. . . to be honest. I have stars and have a nature/gothic theme on my *own* tree - my first tree that I got to decorate with my hubbie. Sparkly dudabs of Santa and ones that represent my British background, my step-Japanese family to remember those that have passed on. . . to be made into actual dust and that's it or if they want to think, gone on to somewhere else, or are already back again doing something else.

I just hope everyone can understand my way because no one should be afraid to say or not to say their way. I like to think at this time of the year, we can see everyone express themself in a positive way.

Gee I better get bed. Santa is coming!!!!!! LOL

Ugh, now it's the New Year I DON'T want to think about LOL. That means I'll have to get my butt into gear and loose the December pounds I've gained after going to each Christmas, Hannakah, Birthday . . . parties etc!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!