Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Why is the smut locked in?

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Paul

Oh, I totally get it. Most of my other comments have already been echoed here, but as for this one, I read PLENTY of stories in both gfic and nfic versions. For me, the sex doesn't make the story, no matter how well-written (and no matter how many jokes I made about it during the Faustian parties LOL). I've always thought that you can tell a truly superb author by his or her knack for weaving in all the details, including the sex, if they choose to do so. And so what if you cut and Gfic? If the story is that good, the dialogue, the a-plot, and the b-relationship sans the horizontal tango will still be there to entice you. Of course, that all depends on the story's ability to be Gfic-ed to begin with, but sufficed to say, there have been PLENTY of stories to my taste that work with and without encounters of the nth kind. But I think it all comes down to personal taste.

Jen

I have to give massive kudos to Sue for the huge job of making it PG-13 and I hope she gets a bunch of feedback from the younger/non nfic reading members of this fanfic community. I never thought it could happen.

I'd have to agree thought that Faustian does lose its intensity and interesting nuances in characterisation without the addition of the "inapropriate" scenes. I think that the mindset I have is that it was made richer by all that was eventually cut out (ha the difference between HBO and ABC).

In that way, feels like a treat that we got to see as much of the characters as we did.


No pun intended.

Yes, because Faustian is just hands down a great story. The smut was totally appropriate, very well written and I loved it, but it wasn't the crux of the plot.

I really enjoy good nfic but I am pretty picky about what I consider *good*. I often will start a story on Annesplace but then stop because I realize it was just written as an excuse to have a nfic scene. Not that that makes it a bad story, but frankly it bores me. I prefer to have my nfic fix along with a strong A plot, or even a strong B plot as long as it is about more than just sex.

The thing is that the PG version of Faustian isn't getting a lot of feedback. Some of the feedback threads include me. And that's it. And what we aren't remembering is that it was the A plot of the story that was so fantastic. And don't forget how many parts there were that didn't have any sex scenes. Believe me, FB's PG version is good!

I think sometimes we forget how important feedback is. Even if all you have time to do is leave a smiley, I'm sure I'd appreciate it. I bet Sue would, too.

DSDragon,
Oh, I didn’t mean that you couldn’t be a “hardcore reader”, without reading Nfic, but those who has taken the trouble to get into that section generally are. Your experience mirrors mine, when I'd chewed through the archive and still wanted more I had to sign up to get the Nfic.
At the same time, I had to face up to being a freak for liking fanfic so much. Without the access system, I could still pretend that this was just something I read when bored. Which I think can also restrict people from reading, guilty pleasure, limited access material.

If they simply are sanitizing their stories, because the SYSTEM makes it hard for people to read their Nfic work I consider it unfortunate.


I’ve never read Nfic for the smut. If the sex isn’t driving the relationship or plot forward I just skim over it. At the same time sex is a large part of healthy normal relationship and when you have stories that flinch from it, it suspends my disbelief. It’s like those American TV-series where the woman mummify herself in the sheets the morning after. You are pulled out of the story and made to contemplate why people are scared of boobies, rather then immersing yourself in the show.


MetroRhodes,
Well, people finds all kind of things offensive. A vocal part of the community seem to find deathfics offensive for example. Personally I don’t like alt-universe stories, or next generations stories but I don’t expect the author to rewrite them and I wouldn’t want a system prodding them to rewrite their stories to fit my preferences.

I don’t want anyone to miss these things either, that is why I brought up this topic.

I realize I’m virtually alone in this, but I don’t find the sex in the Nfic section unsuitable for children. If this is the kind of tender smut your kids goes for I think you should consider yourself fortunate. (Unless your kids lack hormones or computer knowledge.) Now I don’t mean that you should encourage children to read it, but a separate folder with a adult content warning should be enough catering to those who find it offensive. If a minor chose to ignore the warning it’s on their head(just like if they lie about the password)and anyway I can’t see how they really would be harmed by the content.

Classicalla,

I’m sure it is. I just don’t feel inclined to read it when I have every reason to believe I find the original story more enjoyable.

Well Arawn I guess it just basically comes down to a difference in culture, a difference in how people are brought up, different religious backgrounds (I think this is a big one) and a difference in opinion.

I know for me personally, I wouldn't allow my kids to read anything on the nfic page... I don't feel the subject matter is at all appropriate for the young and impressionable... but that's basically because no matter what I may write, and or read myself personally, I don't believe in treating sex flippantly - I believe in marriage and *forever* and monogamy and all that sentimental stuff (and a lot of other very admamant, very personal views that I refuse to get into a discussion about) that I'm sure a lot of people would disagree with me on. That's one of the things that I loved about the original Lois & Clark series, was the level of regard it had for marriage before intimacy... that may be because it was in the 8:00 time slot on ABC, but even so... I appreciated it because I hate the TV shows where everyone is jumping in bed with everyone else at the drop of a hat...

And so, because of those beliefs (marriage and forever, etc...) and because I would be trying to instill those beliefs in my child, I wouldn't allow them to read nfic, while they were young and impressionable - and certainly not during their teenage years while their hormones are running wild and rampant. I don't want what someone else has written to teach my kids about sex... that would be my job.

But the nice thing about these boards is that everyone is very tactful in presenting their views on things, and we do have a wide range of different cultures and backgrounds presented here. In some instances, we just have to agree to disagree on things.

But I do think that the password protection - even with it's flaws and faults - is a good measure to have in place... if for nothing else to protect the owners of this wonderful fansite.

And I promise everyone that's my last bit of opinion on the subject. Like a friend of mine always told me... "Opinions are like noses - everyone has one and some are bigger than others". I don't want to be told I have a big *nose*. So I'll bid my adieu to this thread - thanks to all for the enlightening discussion and tactful way of presenting opposing arguments. I really like that this message board doesn't dissolve into fighting matches or flame wars. I think it shows the level of maturity on the boards.

-- MR

I think the reason that people find the showing of "boobies" on TV offensive, is that many of us (myself included) feel that a person's body is their own, sacred, private thing, and should only be shown in private to certain people (i.e. doctors, spouses, parents, siblings), and even then in rare cases for some. Showing it on TV, to me, is like just flaunting it for the sake of titillation.

As for the hullabaloo over a certain half-time show mishap . . . it was just that--a mishap. I'm not overly concerned about it (especially since I didn't see it), since it wasn't intentional. However, INTENTIONAL showing of the most private parts of a person's body on-screen--or deliberate N-ifying of fic for nothing more than the sake of showing that the nudity happens in real life, to me, is unnecessary. We KNOW it happens--that doesn't mean that we all want to SEE it in our fictional entertainment.

That said, I have no trouble reading/watching stories where consenting adults have sexual relations outside of marriage in a loving relationship. I DO have a problem wish shows/fics where people are constantly sleeping around, a different partner every week--like DJ:

Hear, hear, DJ!

I'm one of those who don't go looking for nfic. To me, it doesn't add much to the story and if there are two versions of one story and one is PG and one is nfic, I'll read the PG-rated one. This has nothing to do with me being prudish or offended by smut--I just don't think it's an integral part of the story, most of the time.

Using Faustian Bargain as an example once more, I am very grateful that Sue made that story available in a PG format. I love her stories and I am fairly certain that I would enjoy the nfic versions of them less than I do the gfic ones. Not because I doubt Sue's ability as a writer to pull off nfic, but because I don't need it in the stories I read.

I've already promised to try and be better about feedback in the future, but my time is very limited and I barely even have enough time to read a story, let alone post in-depth feedback. However, I realize that a quick "love it! more!" takes less than two seconds and I'll do my best to do at least that much from now on.

I had to respond to this because I remember a similar argument being made, years and years ago, about why teenagers shouldn't be writing nfic and now it's a knee-jerk reaction for me .

I "joined" FoLCdom at 18, but I'd been reading fanfic in other fandoms since I was 14 or so (Star Wars, Gargoyles, and Beauty and the Beast come to mind, but I'm sure there were others). If I recall correctly, most of them didn't restrict their nfic at all. Looking or not, I found plenty. (I'm not arguing that we shouldn't restrict ours-- especially because, as others have mentioned, Superman is an appealing character for kids. I'm just explaining what happened to me.)

And I'll admit, I was fascinated. I had a pretty open relationship with my parents in that I could ask them whatever I wanted and they would answer me, but that doesn't mean I always had the nerve to ask <g>. Nfic was hugely informative (if not always 100% accurate <g>). It gave me an outlet for my curiosity and my "wild and rampant" hormones, as it were <g>. It let me learn about sexuality and relationships without risk of emotional pain, pregnancy, STDs, etc. Nfic was safe. If I didn't like the story or the way the sex was handled, I could quit reading it. No pressure to do anything I wasn't ready for .

And my choices of fandoms usually meant I was reading loving, consensual sex within committed relationships. So generally they reinforced the beliefs I already had-- that sex belonged in a loving, mature relationship (preferably marriage). And Lois and Clark nfic is among the safest there is.

Anyway, where I'm going with this is to say that there are worse things for a teenager to do sexually than reading fanfic. After a decade of fanfic reading, I consider myself a relatively well-adjusted, responsible, mature person. I tend to be pretty conservative when it comes to social behavior and sexual relationships. Nfic didn't hurt me in that aspect, or influence me to go out and act on all those confusing adolescent feelings.

Now, this isn't to say that when I have children of my own I won't be horrified at the idea of my little darlings thinking about sex and forbid them to surf the internet or watch television or go on dates until they're 35 But for now, in my admittedly naive 24-year-old opinion, I'd say there are definitely worse ways to learn about sex than L&C fic.

My 2 cents, anyway

Kaylle

And one of the WORST ways (especially if you were taught, like DJ, Kaylle, and myself, that sex is for marriage) is BtVS Nfic, which is where I learned about it. That fandom didn't reinforce my beliefs AT ALL, which is why I can see the sense of DJ's argument.

Sure, this fandom reinforces the loving, consentual, usually-marriage sexual relationships--but not every fandom does. I LOVE that the Nfic here is locked up tight (or as tight as possible, what with the non-security of the internet these days), despite the fact that I have READ fics that need the locks a LOT more than these do.

Actually, in some ways, I think my love life might not be as "bad" (I know, I know, how can a 23-year-old virgin's love life be "bad," right?) as it has been if I'd not started reading Nfic when I was a teenager, or if I'd started reading fic at all in L&C, and then been "forced" to wait until after I was an adult.

Because, during the years when I was supposed to be learning self-control and "all things in moderation," and how to respect myself, I was reading stories where people constantly let go of their self-control, whether they were in a loving relationship or not, and who often used each other sexually to make themselves feel better.

I wouldn't want any of my future kids (and yes, I am aware that I'd have to find a man, not to mention get married first) reading ANY Nfic until they'd learned the lessons that I'd short-circuited with my adolescent Nfic reading.

I said in another thread in one of the other forums here that I wish L&C was the first fandom I'd read fic for, and I meant it. That doesn't necessarily mean that, if I had, I'd not still be vying for the Nfic to be locked up tight--especially since I don't think I was even 16 before I started reading BtVS Nfic (and at the time, I knew a 14-year-old who kept an Nfic site of her own).

It's really not--which is why lately, if I've come across an Nfic that is totally awful, I just go find another fic. I have no trouble with having a textual "fade out" before the scene ends, and then "fading in" on the couple having a nice morning after scene. Now, I only read an Nfic if the first page or so (whether it be the PG version, or the Nfic version doesn't matter) grabs me and won't let go--it has to be THAT well-written.