Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related The word "and."

I've had a couple of Beta Readers look over my work, and one doesn't put a comma after the word "and" and the other does.

What do the rest of you do?

Do you prefer seeing a comma after the word "and" (regardless if it's a list of things or not) or does it matter?

Thanks!

I assume you mean before the 'and'?

For example:

"I went to the store and bought meat, eggs, and cheese."

vs. "I went to the store and bought meat, eggs and cheese."

In that case I'd probably use the comma. Or were you thinking more along the lines of:

"She turned to the mirror, and inspected her makeup."

vs. "She turned to the mirror and inspected her makeup."

In that case I wouldn't use the comma. If she was doing more than two actions, then they'd become a list and you'd use the comma as you do in a list.

If you did mean after, there are relatively rare cases where that's correct. Such as:

"She inspected her makeup and, satisfied with her appearance, headed for the door."

vs. "She inspected her makeup and satisfied with her appearance headed for the door."

In that case the "satisfied..." clause is interrupting the rest of the sentence, so you set it off with a comma before and after. That's the only time I can think of where you would put a comma directly after an and. Although I'm sure someone else will think of another

Hope that helps a little,
Kaylle

It depends on the construction of the sentence, as Kaylee illustrated. As I was reading her examples, I agreed with all of Kaylee's choices. Is this an American English thing, though? Are the rules different in other areas of the world?

It sounds as if at least one aspect of what Alexis is talking about the 'serial comma', in other words, the comma that may appear before 'and' in a list.

US English uses the serial comma, ie:

Apples, oranges, and pears.

UK English does not use the serial comma, ie:

Apples, oranges and pears.

But there are exceptions to this general rule. In the US, newspapers and other outlets for journalism do not use the serial comma - mainly for space-saving reasons. Some publishers also don't use it.

In the UK, one major non-fiction publisher, Oxford University Press, does use the serial comma - known in the UK as the 'Oxford Comma', for obvious reasons - and all authors who publish with OUP must use the 'Oxford Comma'.

Hope this clears this example up, at least. I'd say, Alexis, that you've got perfectly good grounds for using whichever style you prefer.

As for other instances where you might use a comma with 'and', it really does depend on the sentence and whether you're joining two related clauses, or switching subject. I seem to remember that someone posted a very handy explanation of the rules on this recently - if I can find the post, I'll edit this to add in the URL.


Wendy

I was mainly referring to the none list usage of "and" (the part about the makeup).

Although I've heard that a comma after the word "and" in a list can either be used or not.

I'm replying with the link rather than editing it into my other post, Alexis, in case you miss it. Here's the thread I was talking about. Hope it helps!


Wendy

Compound elements in a sentence are not separated by a comma. Compound elements are subjects, verbs, objects, prepositional phrases, modifiers, dependent clauses, etc. that are joined by coordinating conjunctions (the FANBOYS words: for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so). For example, we write, "Jack and Jill went up the hill," (two people did one thing together) rather than, "Jack, and Jill went up the hill." Similarly, we write "Jack fell down and broke his crown," (one person did two things) rather than, "Jack fell down, and broke his crown."

The only compound sentence elements that are separated by a comma are independent clauses. We do that simply to let the reader know that we have completed the first clause (that sentence idea) and begun a new clause. Otherwise, we are forcing the good reader to sit there with the first sentence idea open, waiting to discover if there is a further compound verb or compound object to attach to the thought.

To expound on what Sheila said, you do put a comma before the "and" for independent clauses such as the example below:

Wendy wrote a Lois and Clark story today, and she decided to post it immediately.

In that case, you put a comma in. The following would not have a comma:

Wendy wrote a Lois and Clark story today and decided to post it immediately.

<Hint, hint>

Thank you for all of the replies so far. It's really helping.

Thankee for the link to the thread I put up on the use of commas. This is American English and rules may differ elsewhere as Wendy noted.

Artemis

There is a very good grammar section on the archive:
http://www.lcfanfic.com/faq_grammar.html


There is also a good thread on commas on this site:
The concise word on commas

Edit: Well, duh... I didn't realize Wendy had already posted this last link. (It really is very good, Artemis)

the use of the OXFORD COMMA by OUP is intended to clarify lists within publications...

ie. they use specific rules to clarify this sentence:

Jane made a peanut-butter and Jelly and tuna sandwich.
This sentence is ambiguous as to if there are 1, 2, or 3 sandwiches. This sentence could contain 1 sandwich with all three ingredients...

VS.
Jane made a peanut-butter and Jelly, and a tuna sandwich
this sentence contains two sandwiches, one PB&J and one tuna sandwich... (The oxford Comma)

If jane were to make a peanut butter, and jelly, and tuna sandwich this is a badly written sentence, with too many ANDs, creating three sandwiches, not 2


If Jane made a PB, Jelly, and a tuna sandwich there would be three sandwiches....

notice that in the previous example I used 2 articles, three could be just as correct.... A PB, a Jelly, and a tuna... the same as a PB, Jelly, and a tuna... only when 3 articles, it emphasises only 3 sandwiches... whereas 2 articles could be 3 out of X number of sandwiches... thus the difference

VS if Jane made a PB, Jelly, and Tuna sandwich... only one sandwich

Thus the OxfComma is designed to be used in specific circumstances, (PB&J, and Tuna) and is a specific form of the listing comma... As far as I know Ausies use listing commas in the same way as the Brits. Our accademics pride themselves in their correct grammar and British English spellings. THIS is what I was taught anyway...


otherwise when using the word and to join on a dependant clause:
Jane made a PB&J sandwich and ate it later
here there is no need for the comma (The same could be said if .... sandwich then ate it later)

whereas if:
Jane made a PB&J sandwich and ate it later, she enjoyed it very much.

If:
Jane mafe a PB&J sandwich, which she later ate
This sentence needs the comma because of the word: WHICH the enjoyment requires a comma to distinguish the verbs (Correct me if i was wrong on this one)

Actually, beethoven, while I recognise the specific purpose of the serial or Oxford comma in the examples you give, the Oxford comma is always present before the 'and' and the final item in a list, even in simple lists. I know this because when I was an academic colleagues of mine had a book contract with Oxford University Press and had to abide by that rule in OUP's author guidelines.

So, while UK (and Australian) English will write:

Lois, Clark and Jimmy,

the Oxford comma rule demands:

Lois, Clark, and Jimmy

...which looks completely wrong to me, but that's the way I learned English!

Edit: I just noticed this in your post:

Actually, this is a comma splice; the comma's incorrect here. You need to do one of three things to correct the punctuation in this sentence: add a conjunction (and or when would make sense here), swap the comma for a semi-colon, or make it two separate sentences.


Wendy