There are a few of us on the boards who love to torture our characters (usually just the ones by the names of Lois and Clark) and we call our little clique "League of Evil Writers" or "Evil Writer" for short.

In gathering ideas for Fundraising Swag, I thought it might be fun to have a:

You Know You're An Evil Writer When...

list to add to the slogan idea thread , but I could use some help out there from other Evil Writers (also known as "EW") and our fans (that would be the Evil Readers or "ER") to come up a good list.

DC, you started us off with:

1) You love to torture your characters.

Here's what I've come up with:

2) Plot twists and cliffhangers make you laugh with glee.


Try to keep your ideas generic enough that Evil Writers from other fandoms might be interested in purchasing it to help fund our funddrive. There isn't a more evil idea than that.

3) Your goal is to make your readers cry.

4) You love making your readers lose sleep while they stay up reading your latest installment.

Sorry, I can only think of the one off-hand; I'm only an Evil Writer on rare occasions -- just enough to remain unpredictable. Hmmm... Does that make me more or less evil than a writer whose works are more consistently evil?

Joy,
Lynn

You LOVE cliffhangers!

Lois and Clark are just about to kiss and you have somebody (probably Jimmy Olsen) interrupt them.

Apologies in advance, Virginia.

I'm not sure if I'm evil or not, but I would love to torutre my characters. That word just sounds so deliciously evil. What could I do to Clark that would qualify as torutring him? Surely it would have to be something really, really bad!

Corrina.

7. One word: KRYPTONITE

Laura

That's what I get for not doing my usual 10X read throughs before posting, and running off to make dinner before sundown. TORTURE!

Any way it's spelled, Corinna, you qualify as an Evil Writer (Female Hawk literally tortures Clark in Trusting Me, Trusting You ). Honey, you're OVERQUALIFIED.

Oh, I wish I'd learnt that word before writing TMTY. I could have called it 'Torutring Me, Torutring You.'

I do, Wendy. I really do. Unfortunately, I also already covered Cliffhangers in #2. Sorry.


So true. Me and the League of Evil Writers are big fans of interruptors, not just Jimmy, but Lex and Herb Wells, too, and on rare occusions the Kents and Perry. I was looking for something more generic though, because if we slap it on a T-shirt (for the fundraiser) we don't want those DC copyright people mad at us. Do you mind if I edit it to be:

5) "every road your characters find to true love, happiness, or even a simple kiss is filled with potholes, guided missiles, and/or mutant frogs." (potholes being a figurative Jimmy, guided missiles comes from literally from Shayne Terry's Fugue , and the last being a reference to clones, of course). Let me know if this is as an acceptable replacement.


Yes, Kryptonite does help in us, sometimes literally, torture our favorite flying superhero. A little bit more specific than what I was hoping for. How about: "Fatal Flaw"? Although, technically that isn't one word. Let me know what you come up with, or if you want me to work it into something finishing the phrase...

You Know You're An Evil Writer When...


8. "Angst is your best friend."

9) You know you're an evil writer when readers suggest a) your story belongs in some other Superman-related fandom (like Smallville) or b) your story should be on some other site because it doesn't end with happily-ever-after.

And that's why I'm waiting to send off to Beta stage something I have that's complete but which qualifies me for some FOLCs' shooting gallery.

10) Your story's villains make the Axis of Evil look like a teddy bear picnic.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by ColleenMA:
<strong> 10) Your story's villains make the Axis of Evil look like a teddy bear picnic.

11) You hear a maniacal cackling whenever you're writing, and realize it's coming from you.

12) You find yourself constantly using multiple content warnings. In the same story.

13) Your idea of making something suitable for all ages is to take out the 3rd torture scene, the gorier death scene, and that scene with the jello.

14) People who read your fan-fiction ask why you clearly hate the show so much.

15) Your fics are not assigned a rating since the mods feel your by-line is warning enough.


This is fun.

Queen of Capes posted:
) to come up with something spectacular...something towards the 'Fatal Flaw' idea sounds wonderfully 'torutous'--sorry, I just couldn't resist

Laura

16) Your favorite kind of feedback is the kind where the readers threaten you.

Um... DC, the only acceptable threats are tomatoes and on parade.

17) We have to keep reminding people that Evil Writers aren't evil in Real Life, only in fiction.

16a) The graemlin you most like to see in FDK is:

Joy,
Lynn

Hmmmmm. Let's see...
7) You find yourself exploiting your hero's fatal flaw for random reasons.

7) Your hero doesn't behave you threaten to kill him off, because you know how.

7) You exploit your hero's fatal flaw because it's a Tuesday.

Oh, dear, I'm afraid I could go all night. Will any of those work?

They are all nice and evil, but I think my favorite is:

The 'because it's a Tuesday' totally made it for me--awesome!

Thanks Virginia
Laura

Final Brainstorming List for Evil Writer - top ten

I'll be posting a poll to narrow these down to a top ten list, but here's what we've got so far:

You know you're an Evil Writer when...

1) You love to torture your characters.
or should this be: "You torture your characters for fun." ??

2) Plot twists and cliffhangers make you chortle with glee.
(I've changed laugh to chortle, hope nobody minds)

3) Your goal is to make your readers cry.

4) You love making your readers lose sleep while they stay up reading your latest installment.

5) Every road your characters find to true love, happiness, or even a simple kiss is filled with potholes, guided missiles, and/or mutant frogs.
(I never heard back from Iolanthe about this edit, but I hope it's okay, if long-winded)

6) Your characters slip on the obvious banana peel.

EDIT: Alt-6) Your characters tend to slip on the proverbial banana peel.

7) You exploit your hero's fatal flaw merely because it's a Tuesday.

8) Angst is your best friend.

9) You know you're an evil writer when readers suggest a) your story belongs in some other Superman-related fandom (like Smallville) or b) your story should be on some other site because it doesn't end with happily-ever-after.

(BTW, Terry, you must have missed Queenie's Bizarro WHAM Fic Challenge encouraging people kill off our favorite characters.) To keep this generic to fanfic in general, do you mind if I edit this to...

EDIT: Alt-9) When readers suggest that your story belongs in some other (darker) fandom because it doesn't end with a happily-ever-after.

10) Your story's villains make the Axis of Evil look like a teddy bear picnic.

11) You hear a maniacal cackling whenever you're writing, and realize it's coming from you.

12) You find yourself constantly using multiple content warnings. In the same story.

13) Your idea of making something suitable for all ages is to take out the 3rd torture scene, the gorier death scene, and that scene with the jello.

14) People who read your fan-fiction ask why you clearly hate the show so much.

15) Your fics are not assigned a rating since the mods feel your by-line is warning enough.

16) Your favorite kind of feedback is the kind where the readers threaten you and/or cry.

17) We have to keep reminding people that Evil Writers aren't evil in Real Life, only in fiction.

***

If I could get final feedback on these nominations, in regards to tightening them up and grammar checks, I'd appreciate it. Also, please let me know if I've missed any. Thanks!

18) Every chapter ends in a cliffhanger.

19) You leave your characters dangling at the end of a chapter ... and don't return to save them - for weeks.

Hey Virginia

I didn't see any grammar issues

As to some of the questions...

--chortle is great...gives it more personality

--my first thought is 'proverbial'--the sentence seems to flow better, but that's just IMO

Going to be hard to narrow this list down--lots of great ones!

Laura

Thanks, Laura. Ooops. I forgot to remove "self" from that one. I agree it sounds better, but just wasn't sure if "Proverbial" worked there, definition wise. I figured some of our wordsmiths would let me know.

The Top Ten things that let you know that you're an evil writer:

10. Your goal is to make your readers cry.

9. Your fics are not assigned a rating since the mods feel your by-line is warning enough.

8. You love making your readers lose sleep while they stay up reading your latest installment.

7. You find yourself constantly using multiple content warnings. In the same story.

6. Plot twists and cliffhangers make you chortle with glee.

5. You have to keep reminding people that Evil Writers aren't evil in Real Life, only in fiction.

4. You hear a maniacal cackling whenever you're writing, and realize it's coming from you.

3. Your favorite kind of feedback is the kind where the readers threaten you and/or cry.

2. Angst is your best friend.

1. You exploit your hero's fatal flaw merely because it's a Tuesday.

In other words, Every road your characters find to true love, happiness, or even a simple kiss is filled with potholes, guided missiles, and/or mutant frogs just because YOU LOVE TO TORTURE YOUR CHARACTERS FOR FUN!


Okay, technically, I guess that's 13, but "top ten" sounds better. Anyway, real evil writers break the rules.

***

Many thanks to: Laura (LMA), Queen of Capes, Deadly Chakram, Lynn S.M., Wendy, IolantheAlias, Female Hawk, Terry Leatherwood, Colleen, KatherineKent, and all the other Evil Writers out there who keep us coming back for more.

Hey. Since when did I become an Evil Writer? I thought I was nice!!!

Although... I do have a propensity for cliffhangers, which you will all start to see when I post my longer stories.

Love the end result. Turned out great!

Laura

<insert pop-culture phenomenon here> thing.

OTOH, it does also work for LnC Michael

Apparently, you didn't read this one, KK:
My special thanks were for the contributors (or inspiration for) the list.

I remember them well from your pirate story. Looking forward to "The Wedding Pact".

What? Me -- an evil writer? No, never. (Well, hardly ever*.)

Joy,
Lynn

* With apologies to Gilbert and Sullivan

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Lynn S. M.:
<strong> What? Me -- an evil writer? No, never. (Well, hardly ever*.)

Thanks for remembering that story, Virginia. I'll admit to a handful of WHAMmy stories, but the preponderance is, if not exactly WAFFy, at least FLUFFy*. Hence the "hardly ever." Well, that and I must admit to being a fan of G&S. (See, I won't mention anything specific of theirs, or quote or paraphrase any more of their lyrics here, because to do so after you asked me not to would be evil. )

Joy,
Lynn

*FLUFF = Fun, Light, Upbeat, Feel-good Fluff (or "FLUFF," if you like recursive acronyms)

What? You're calling me an evil writer? Really? But why?

Wendy

Aren't you the one who wrote all those stories with Tank?

Umm... Wendy was the one who fixed most of the evilness in those stories

Then again, she once made it so that Lois only had 24 hours left to live.

LOIS: and not the good kind of 24 hours poison.

She also caused a rift between Lois and Clark that was enough to separate them for months, and made Lois hate Clark and stuff. Might even have accused him of sexual deviancy. Faux pas was actually one of the first fics I read after I read the 5th and 6th season. Come to think of it, that might also explain certain evil tendencies...

Michael

He puts on his asbestos long johns...

I guess I am in the minority here but I just saw a post by Drew Magary in the GQ Mag site( Drew Magary ) which just about covered my view on rape scenes it is talking about Game of Thrones but it applies here sometimes.

I did obfuscate the curse word there. I do find it odd the people that don't like to see cursing in the stories have no problem with rape and torture. I can certainly see that sometimes the torture and rape is paramount to the story but in general I don't like it and try not read it.

But as I said in the opening, I am probably in the minority here...

Mike

I might be in the vast minority here, but my tolerate for rape scenes depends entirely on he story. If it's just in there for shock value, I have zero tolerance for it. But, if the story depends on a rape scene, then I have a lot more tolerance for it.

For example, in my NFic, Broken, Clark was raped repeatedly while in a foster home (I didn't show it happening, but I did have him tell Lois about his experiences) and it left him "broken" as in unable to perform, sexually, once he's dating Lois.

The Game of Thrones scene in question was icky, I'll admit. But I never got the feeling that it was completely consensual in books either. (I read it about a year ago while trying to also devour birth/pregnancy books, so things got a little jumbled in my mind.)

I was just using the Game of Thrones deal because the article used it as a reference since it is so popular currently. I personally have never watched it and probably never will.

I am developing little tolerance for the rape issue even if it is paramount to the story. It is one of the reasons I have never read Broken (sorry). I read What Makes a Man by StopQuitDont (who I normally love) and I could not wait to get that story out of my head. I can read them but I feel empty/dirty at the end. I just recently did read In A Dark Time by Becky Bain and while I found the story worth the read I still did not feel good upon the end even though she (Becky) made a huge effort to get to end on an up note. I tend to agree with the great Nan Smith that she reads these stories to escape and the feel good at the end. I feel the same way so I try to make it a policy to avoid them if at all possible.

The main problem is how to determine if the story will contain a rape scene. One problem is that nobody has posted to the WHAM thread on the main site in years and while WHAM in general does not bother me, in fact most of the time I really like it, I just don't think I want to read through any more Lois rape scenes. I actually prefer to read WAFFY stories personally as I believe to core of the series was the love affair between the two main characters even before they (Lois actually) were willing to admit it hence the name of the series. The problem is how to let the reader know what is coming without giving away the entire store line. Most writers post major WHAM warnings and those cases I scan the story to determine what sort of WHAM it is and to me the type of WHAM is important. Some writers are better about it and many indicate the torture side but rarely do I see a rape warning. We all know that danger and injury are part of the story of Lois and Clark but just bothered me to see the celebration of the ability to create a well written torture and rape scene which a number of the posts on this thread seem to be celebrating.

Heck my wife is a big Criminal Minds (sometimes referred to a torture porn) but I rarely can stand to watch more than a few minutes of it so we rarely watch TV together.

I tend to actually like to read WAFFY stories personally as I believe to core of the series was the love affair between the two core characters even before they (Lois actually) were willing to admit it. On the other hand I really liked Pam Jerigan's Fate Worse Than Death and one of my favorite stories is Shelia Harper's Shot in the Dark so don't get the idea that I am totally anti-Angst. And Angst does not have to involve rape and physical torture. I could list a hundred stories where our favorite couple get put into situations that test them and allow them to overcome the tests but to me that does not require rape or physical torture.

The problem is that I have no real solution to my issue but thought this thread might be a good place to voice this issue and discuss. I like to believe I have an open mind and I have tried not to be too critical here and don't truly mean to be a downer but I felt like the other side should be heard although I may one of the few on this side.

Boy I did not mean to make this such a long post but I tried to craft the response to hopefully better state my position without p*ssing off a bunch of really good writers and people.

Thanks for listening


Mike

Hmmm.

I haven't read or posted fic here for a long time, but I am surprised if there really is a tendency not to warn for things such as rape or sexual assault. It's not about 'spoiling the story', or 'protecting' people; it's that, as I've learned elsewhere around the internet, people who have lived through rape and assault can find these kind of stories triggery, and they prefer to know in advance that a story contains a scene or scenes like that so that they can avoid them.

If people don't want to be explicit about the specific nature of the scene or scenes in their fic because they don't want to give spoilers, why not include a statement at the start along the lines of Contains elements which may be triggery for some. Please IM me if you're concerned and want to know more.


Wendy

I completely agree! I very grateful not to have any personal experience with sexual assault or rape, but I have too many friends who have. The "triggering" we're talking about here is triggering PTSD. It's not a matter of "I don't wanna hear or read about it." It's much, much more serious.

Personally, I've read a few stories with rape in them that I thought were ... important to the story and done "well" (whatever that means). My acceptance of it depends on how it's done. It's definitely not my preference to read these kinds of stories. And, thankfully, I'm not triggered by them.

I'd hate to think that anyone with PTSD would deem these boards an unsafe place.

Sara

Interesting thoughts, Mike. At the very least, you've probably reminded the writers that the WHAM thread exists and maybe we should use it occasionally.

Having said that, I've read plenty of 'evil' LnC stories and only one rape scene. That rape scene was in a story I was betaing for a new writer. The rape scene was so graphic that I strongly suggested she re-write it. She did, but in reading it a second time, I felt just as sick as I had the first time. Rape was central to the story, but it wasn't a story I felt fitted comfortably into the LnC landscape - so much so, that I requested that if the writer ever posted the story, she didn't credit me with having BRed it. To my knowledge, the story was never finished and never posted.

I'm glad you shared your concerns, Mike. Perhaps there are more rape and torture scenes than I realise. However, I can't agree with your above statement that anyone was celebrating the ability to write truly gruesome detail.

In this thread, I'm not sure that 'evil' really translates to rape/torture. I've been called 'evil' by some of my closest friends on these boards - I take it as a compliment because I don't think 'evil' actually means anything other than the ability to engage readers in a story that might have some drama/angst. A cliff-hanger can be 'evil' because the reader really, really wants to read the next chapter.

I can't speak for other writers, but I've enjoyed receiving your FDK for my stories and I was interested in what you had to say here. Even though I don't agree on the 'celebrate' bit, it's always good to be reminded that when we post a story, we're inviting people into a scenario we created and we need to be mindful that readers mostly come here for enjoyment.

Corrina.

One more thing ... Virginia said ...

I know it was a light-hearted comment, V - one that made me smile, but there is no direct torture in TMTY - it's hinted at and the consequences are definitely there for all to see, but it's a story of healing not abuse, love not hate, forgiveness not brutality.

I try to put warnings in my stories prior to explicit scenes, which might turn a reader's stomach. While I've never had Lois raped in any of my stories, I have Lois had sexually attacked. (The attack was thankfully interrupted.) I hope I remembered to post a warning at the beginning of that part, and I apologize if I did not. I did recently post a not quite romantic sex scene which included this warning at the beginning:

But that was just for bad sex, not non-consensual sex.

I also know that I included WHAM warning for my Wrong Clark series, because I killed off and injured so many people in Book 1 (mostly because it started with Clark's death). Included in that WHAM warning was warning of a romantic relationship between Lois and Dan that was actually tender and somewhat loving, which my Betas thought was icky, but only because Dan wasn't Clark. There was some things that could've triggered people's PTSD, because that was the story where Lois was sexually attacked, and those triggers triggered Lois as well (which was why Lois told both Dan and Lex she wasn't able for a more intimate relationship with either of them).

I know that Lex often thinks and does things (although usually not described in too much detail, because there's only so far I would want to venture into his sick mind), which others could find uncomfortable to read. I'll try to remember to warn readers whenever I have another Lex POV scene, as his thoughts aren't often kind and he's been known to do non-consensual sexual torture. As a matter of fact, I'll update my WHAM warnings right now to reflect this. (Done)

I'll work harder to make sure that anything of an explicit nature (implied or otherwise) will carry a warning ahead of time from now on, even if such horrible scenes don't include Lois or Clark (which they usually don't). Thanks for the reminder.

FYI: When we self-proclaimed "Evil Writers" talk about Torturing our Characters, we mean it in the loosest of terms and not always literally and/or physically. As Clark will be the first to admit, just watching Lois dating and considering marrying Lex is torture to one who loves her and knows what Luthor is capable of. Sometimes the torture only involves the amount of roadblocks we've tossed in the path of true love (i.e. metaphorical torment). We hope the readers on this board know that the term "Evil Writer" is tongue-in-cheek and not literal.

Wait. All those K-Rod scenes happened off page? Really? I guess my imagination is better than I thought when you faded to black and returned to show Clark beaten up. Yes, I meant it in a light-hearted manner. I'm also not one to call people "honey" either. Sometimes my Southern heritage slips out, though.

Virginia - From memory, there is one scene where we see Clark exposed to K - but hey, that's stock standard LnC. There is also another scene where Lois exposed him to K, but there are good reasons for that. He is beaten by K-rods, but the readers only see (read) the effects of the beating.

I'm glad your imagination was at work, though! I really tried to write the story so that each reader could apply their imagination to their own comfort (relatively speaking ) level.

Corrina.

Corrina,

I had been debating tackling your Trusting Me, Trusting You story due to my getting through Bob Bartholomew's After Nightfall story (much shorter) with a fair bit of Lex beating on Clark (as Superman) and I was beginning to get to my beating/torture limit with that one. Thanks for a bit of clarification as to story content.

Mike

Virginia,

Thank you! This was the sort of discussion I was hoping to generate. I want to apologize for my 'celebrate' remark because actually one of your earlier posts that triggered it even though it was not your statement (might have been Queen of the Capes

quote:1) You love to torture your characters.
or should this be: "You torture your characters for fun." ??

but I realize that mental torture and physical torture are different and the quote could have meant either.

Anyway, I love your writing and stories and don't consider you really an 'evil' writer. Whoops, forget I just said that [Smile]

What did you do! Never *ever* encourage an EW. They will torture us readers if you tell them that it's not yet torture.

LOIS: [Razz] Does that mean that I'll now *never* going to get nookie with Clark? [Mad]
LEX: [Wave]

[Wave] Michael

quote:Originally posted by Mike M:
Corrina,

I had been debating tackling your Trusting Me, Trusting You story due to my getting through Bob Bartholomew's After Nightfall story (much shorter) with a fair bit of Lex beating on Clark (as Superman) and I was beginning to get to my beating/torture limit with that one. Thanks for a bit of clarification as to story content.

Mike

The bad stuff is at the beginning of TMTY. If you can get through the first few chapters, it becomes a whole lot easier. I have never thought of it as 'torture fic'.

Corrina.

I have to agree with Mike M on this point, I come to this site to escape from RL, not to have it shoved in my face.

quote: I am developing little tolerance for the rape issue even if it is paramount to the story. It is one of the reasons I have never read Broken (sorry). I read What Makes a Man by StopQuitDont (who I normally love) and I could not wait to get that story out of my head. I can read them but I feel empty/dirty at the end. I just recently did read In A Dark Time by Becky Bain and while I found the story worth the read I still did not feel good upon the end even though she (Becky) made a huge effort to get to end on an up note. I tend to agree with the great Nan Smith that she reads these stories to escape and the feel good at the end. I feel the same way so I try to make it a policy to avoid them if at all possible.

StopQuitDont wrote another story, On the Other Hand that was going along well until Lois was raped by one student and eventually Clark stepped up and married her. The entire story made a steady plunge into the ridiculous and I could not finish it. I have never been able to read anything else by the author. The rape was just a plot device.

I would have appreciated a warning.

quote:Originally posted by Female Hawk:

quote:Originally posted by Mike M:
Corrina,

I had been debating tackling your Trusting Me, Trusting You story due to my getting through Bob Bartholomew's After Nightfall story (much shorter) with a fair bit of Lex beating on Clark (as Superman) and I was beginning to get to my beating/torture limit with that one. Thanks for a bit of clarification as to story content.

Mike

The bad stuff is at the beginning of TMTY. If you can get through the first few chapters, it becomes a whole lot easier. I have never thought of it as 'torture fic'.

Corrina.

Corrina,

Thanks for the information. I can easily get through the first few chapters. I am now getting into KenJ's Matchmaker series so it may be a while before I can get to TMTY as I am finding my limit at two to three stories simultaneously before I begin getting confused... Maybe I can find or create a .mobi of TMTY to use on an upcoming couple of trips via the wonder of air travel.

Thanks again.

Mike

quote:Originally posted by Morgana:
I have to agree with Mike M on this point, I come to this site to escape from RL, not to have it shoved in my face.

quote: I am developing little tolerance for the rape issue even if it is paramount to the story. It is one of the reasons I have never read Broken (sorry). I read What Makes a Man by StopQuitDont (who I normally love) and I could not wait to get that story out of my head. I can read them but I feel empty/dirty at the end. I just recently did read In A Dark Time by Becky Bain and while I found the story worth the read I still did not feel good upon the end even though she (Becky) made a huge effort to get to end on an up note. I tend to agree with the great Nan Smith that she reads these stories to escape and the feel good at the end. I feel the same way so I try to make it a policy to avoid them if at all possible.

StopQuitDont wrote another story, On the Other Hand that was going along well until Lois was raped by one student and eventually Clark stepped up and married her. The entire story made a steady plunge into the ridiculous and I could not finish it. I have never been able to read anything else by the author. The rape was just a plot device.

I would have appreciated a warning.

Took me a bit to find the story, it was actually written by CarolM and thanks for the warning as I might have read that one as I have been thinking about reading more of her stuff.

Mike

Urgh! That teaches me to not write anything until I get my facts straight.

On the Other Hand was by CarolM! [Eek!]

StopQuitDont wrote The Way It Should Have Been which was very disappointing. I started reading that right after I stopped reading On the Other Hand.

Thanks for correcting me Mike!

uote:Originally posted by Mike M:

Maybe I can find or create a .mobi of TMTY to use on an upcoming couple of trips via the wonder of air travel.

Our trusty fairies have already created one [Smiley]
http://www.lcfanfic.com/wiki/doku.php?id=all_the_novels#female_hawk
On this sub-site there's also tons of other stories in ebook form.

[Wave] Michael

quote:Originally posted by Morgana:
On the Other Hand was by CarolM! [Eek!]

Actually, I liked that one. It was a tad soapy, sure, but very entertaining. There's trick to it, though:

*SPOILER ALERT*

*SPOILER ALERT*

*SPOILER ALERT*

*SPOILER ALERT*

*SPOILER ALERT*

The mentioned event did not actually happen. The plot device was to make the characters think it has happened. It sets up a lot of fun stuff later on and when you know it's just smoke and mirrors, it's easy to read past that kind of stuff. At least, that's me.

*SPOILER END*

*SPOILER END*

*SPOILER END*

*SPOILER END*

*SPOILER END*

[Wave] Michael

quote:Originally posted by Darth Michael:

quote:Originally posted by Morgana:
On the Other Hand was by CarolM! [Eek!]

The mentioned event did not actually happen. The plot device was to make the characters think it has happened. It sets up a lot of fun stuff later on and when you know it's just smoke and mirrors, it's easy to read past that kind of stuff. At least, that's me.
[Wave] Michael

Thanks Michael. I may give it a try after all.

Mike

Yikes! I opened a can of worms! Thanks for setting the record straight. Still, the story was way more than I could handle.

quote:Originally posted by Morgana:
Yikes! I opened a can of worms! Thanks for setting the record straight. Still, the story was way more than I could handle.

No problem. I am glad we had this interchange though. Helped me through some tough sledding getting my mind around some of the topics discussed in this thread.

Mike

quote:Originally posted by Mike M:
Virginia,

Thank you! This was the sort of discussion I was hoping to generate. I want to apologize for my 'celebrate' remark because actually one of your earlier posts that triggered it even though it was not your statement (might have been Queen of the Capes

quote:1) You love to torture your characters.
or should this be: "You torture your characters for fun." ??

but I realize that mental torture and physical torture are different and the quote could have meant either.

Nope. That was all me. [Goofy] What I meant by "torture characters for fun" was of course: Jimmy Interruptus. I think I broke the record for how many times Clark wanted to tell Lois something important and was interrupted by something/someone in Wrong Clark. By the end of that section, I was torturing my Readers as much as my characters. [Evil] Hmmmm. I don't know, or did I tie with "50 First Revelations"? (This month's FanFic of the Month selection, where Lois loses her memories over and over. VERY emotionally torturous to both of them. Of course, It's set right after Clark dumps Lois in Contact, so... [Notworthy] She keeps awaking with the memories from a month earlier, when they were in love and she's just learned CK=SM, and he keeps trying to bide by his awful decision. An EXCELLENT fic. with a happily ever after ending.)

quote:Anyway, I love your writing and stories and don't consider you really an 'evil' writer. Whoops, forget I just said that [Smile]

What? Me forget? Never! -

quote:Darth Michael wrote:
What did you do! Never *ever* encourage an EW. They will torture us readers if you tell them that it's not yet torture.

LOIS: [Razz] Does that mean that I'll now *never* going to get nookie with Clark? [Mad]
LEX: [Wave]

/Checks her tool belt for a screwdriver to tighten upcoming screws./ [Thumbsup]


quote:Originally posted by Morgana:
StopQuitDont wrote another story, On the Other Hand that was going along well until Lois was raped by one student and eventually Clark stepped up and married her. The entire story made a steady plunge into the ridiculous and I could not finish it. I have never been able to read anything else by the author. The rape was just a plot device.

I would have appreciated a warning.

Oh, SQD has some great WAFFY stories too. Blame it on the Mistletoe and Ice Cream Cone for example. (Psst. SQD, I don't think you've sent this one on to Labby at the Archives, yet.) She can get very dark, though. "Double Jeopardy" is all about Lois recovering from a violent WHAMy marriage to Lex, Mike and Morgana, so I don't doubt either of you would appreciate this drama.

quote:Originally posted by VirginiaR:

quote:Originally posted by Mike M:
Virginia,

Thank you! This was the sort of discussion I was hoping to generate. I want to apologize for my 'celebrate' remark because actually one of your earlier posts that triggered it even though it was not your statement (might have been Queen of the Capes

quote:1) You love to torture your characters.
or should this be: "You torture your characters for fun." ??

but I realize that mental torture and physical torture are different and the quote could have meant either.

Nope. That was all me. [Goofy] What I meant by "torture characters for fun" was of course: Jimmy Interruptus. I think I broke the record for how many times Clark wanted to tell Lois something important and was interrupted by something/someone in Wrong Clark. By the end of that section, I was torturing my Readers as much as my characters. [Evil] Hmmmm. I don't know, or did I tie with "50 First Revelations"? (This month's FanFic of the Month selection, where Lois loses her memories over and over. VERY emotionally torturous to both of them. Of course, It's set right after Clark dumps Lois in Contact, so... [Notworthy] She keeps awaking with the memories from a month earlier, when they were in love and she's just learned CK=SM, and he keeps trying to bide by his awful decision. An EXCELLENT fic. with a happily ever after ending.)

Well you aren't done with Wrong Clark so you could make a run for it...

Mike

quote:Originally posted by Morgana:

StopQuitDont wrote The Way It Should Have Been which was very disappointing. I started reading that right after I stopped reading On the Other Hand.

Funny I actually kind of liked' The Way It Should Have Been' but actually like 'The Way It Is Now' which SQD wrote as a sequel on the nFC side even better because it closed some of the loops that 'The Way It Should Have Been' left open as well as threw in a New Kryptonian element into the mix. Both had a lot of angst both mental and physical (especially The Way It Is Now) so they were definitely dramatic but in both stories the main characters are strong against the odds and many times the ones I don't like is when one or the other is not strong.

I actually love this discussion because it helps me flesh out what I really like and don't.

Mike

quote:Originally posted by Mike M:
Well you aren't done with Wrong Clark so you could make a run for it...

If I gave Lois amnesia and made Clark have to go back to the beginning of their relationship *again*, I'm sure my Readers would show me how much of my evilness has rubbed off on them and send me a parade of [Wildguy] [Wildguy] [Wildguy] Mostly, because Clark would probably stab himself with Anti-K's green dagger (hmmmm, did I ever return that when I borrowed it to open the Best Super Short story envelope at the Kerths? [Huh] ) then go through that again.

CLARK: Um... Virginia? [Eek!] Would I? Would I really? How about we don't find out?

Don't worry, I have different kinds of angst in store for them (both my characters and readers alike).