Two Queries:

1) If a certain male character were to engage in some intense observation of his female partner and recently erstwhile lover, what visual or behavioral clues might lead him to (correctly) assume said partner was pregnant?

2) Ok, back in the day many a trashy romance novel and melodramatic television show had fainting as a possible indication of pregnancy. Can anyone tell me why a woman fainting would be considered a sign of impending motherhood? And if it's a legitimate indicator, what causes pregnant women to faint?

Couldn't tell you much about #1, but I have some info on 2...

I think actual fainting is rare these days, but it does happen. It could be from any one of a number of factors (being pregnant has an effect on every part of your body), but I think the most common is low blood sugar.

Basically, you've got a parasitic organism growing in your body, pulling as much nourishment out of your blood as it wants, with little to no regard for your health or needs.

Not only that, but it's actively interfering with your system, pumping hormones and things into your blood to trick your body into accomodating it even more. This can, in fact, lead to a form of temporary diabetes.

So, the baby pulls the sugar out of your blood and interferes with your internal regulation of blood sugar. If you're not careful, it's entirely possible that your blood sugar will become dangerously low (or, for that matter, dangerously high), which could cause you to pass out.

Paul

I think it really depends on the woman. Lots of fanfic has the woman suddenly throwing up and thinking she has the flu. But when I was pregnant, I didn't throw up even once the during the whole time. The woman's breasts could start to become tender - maybe someone (watching very closely) might notice her trying to shift in her bra or rub quickly at some of the soreness. With her second child, my friend's waistband started getting tight within a month, but I was still wearing belts while carrying my first well into my fifth month. So honestly, some women could hide their pregnancies fairly easily until they start showing in the second trimester.

My one roommate in college was pregnant her senior year (our junior year), and she got sick *once* her entire pregnancy. She was also able to hide it until about her 36th week, and she delivered at 38 weeks! She barely showed at all. In fact, I drove her to the hospital the one day because she thought her water broke, I went back to the dorm, got ready for class, and by the time I was walking down the stairs, she was running up in the other direction. She gave birth that night. So the day she gave birth, she was running up stairs I, not pregnant at all, couldn't walk up wihtout getting winded.

Greenie, women react so individually to pregnancy that it could be almost anything. 50% of women never suffer morning sickness, but among the 50% of us that do, some of us are sick all day long for months on end. Some women's breasts respond quickly to the extra hormones; some women's waists do, so size change will depend on the woman.

You didn't mention whether the woman knew she was pregnant or not. If she did, she might be changing her own behavior (e.g. a heavy coffee drinker might suddenly switch to decaf). The easiest way to tell, of course, is the "classic" pregnancy symptom of morning sickness: sick every morning, can't face coffee or food first thing, starts feeling better about mid-day and can handle something light, ravenous at dinner time.

And then there was me... I did my morning sickness backwards. Doing good at breakfast, iffy at lunch, and hopeless at dinner time. Actually, at the very beginning of a pregnancy I felt sick all day long -- as things progressed I started to be able to handle breakfast, then lunch... my personal cut-off time for food gradually moved later and later in the day. The reason I first suspected I was pregnant with my second baby was that I had felt *awful* for days but didn't have any cold symptoms.

I personally couldn't stand any sort of tight fit around my waist, and though I didn't often throw up (only once fainted, but I also had the flu) I felt sick most of the time. The thought of food wasn't too bad, but certain smells were unbearable.

When I announced at work that I was preggers, one of my co-workers told me she'd suspected it. She said I'd changed my snacking habits and tended to go home early. If your hypothetical female partner had any kind of flexibility in her hours, she might shift them and start coming in late or going home early.

PJ

I have a young friend who recently gave birth. What tipped me off that she was pregnant was that smells made her sick...even her husband who never bothered her before. (Thank goodness for both of them, it didn't last long) It wasn't just food.

Personally, I walked around surreptitiously massaging the sides of my breasts when I became pregnant. I didn't know what it meant for child #1, but in my other pregnancies, I knew within days of conception I was pregnant. And a colleague of mine (female with children of her own told me when she saw what I thought was the surrpetitious massaging that I might be pregnant.)

Otherwise, I think I walked around with a dumb smile on my face for nine months!

gerry

I've never been pregnant but my mother who was pregnant six times (one miscarriage) had morning sickness extremely early with my little sister. My mother always had morning sickness bad but with my little sister it was extremely early. She swears it was the morning after. Anyway she thought she had eaten something that disagreed with her and took Pepto. This went on for a couple of days until she realized it was worse in the morning. The preverbial light bulb went off and she stopped taking the Pepto and waited to see if she missed her period.

Even though my mother was skinny she didn't show until she was 6 months along.

I've been pregnant six times, the last time with twins, and I can tell you that each was different. The first time, I had no clue until I missed a period, and then I didn't start to even show until I was nearly five months along -- and it wasn't really noticieable when I was fully dressed until nearly seven months. I was "morning sick" all day long for the first six months, and then in the afternoon for the rest of it. The second time, I remember sitting in the living room watching my little boy and Sesame Street, and feeling hot flashes, and wondering what could possibly be the matter. (This from an OB nurse!) The doctor said that hormone changes were causing the hot flashes and that I was probably pregnant -- and I was. The third time, I remember feeling utterly exhausted about a week before my period was due and thinking that I was either pregnant or had a deadly disease. Fortunately, it was the former.

I had morning sickness all six times, but the pattern varied. With some it was in the morning, some in the afternoon, and one all day long for months. <ugh>

The last time, I noticed that my clothing was getting tight much sooner than with previous pregnancies, but attributed it to the fact that this was number six -- until the ultrasound showed two heartbeats. That was also one of the afternoon "morning sickness" ones.

I never fainted with a pregnancy, but I almost did once when I went without eating for too long. I'd been nauseated all afternoon and had avoided food like the plague, and paid the price later in the evening, so it can happen. Of course, that was the night my hubby took me out to Baskin Robbins at ten p.m. because he knew if he didn't I'd be talking about banana splits all night.

Nan

i wasn't sick at all
i think my husband had morning sickness cause he used to get up and throw up every morning
and also he gain weight too lol

My one sister-in-law did faint when she was pregnant. During the whole pregnancy, she had a problem with blood flow in her legs and had to wear support hose. Towards the end of the pregnancy, she was sentenced to bed rest because of this.

<-- currently hoping baby #2 with other sister-in-law will stop being shy, so we can find out the gender!

I agree, everyone has a different experience. I was sick like a dog the first 4 months. Morning, day and night. There is also no possible way I could have hidden my pregnancy. I was as big as a boat.

Jackie

My closest friend has just had it confirmed that she's pregnant (8 weeks along). I was the one to suggest to her that she may be pregnant, because of certain changes in behaviour I'd noticed.

Eating habits were a big indicator. Meals that she'd normally be able to polish off in minutes, she couldn't finish. Certain foods that she used to love now made her sick even thinking about them.

She was also different emotionally, and was suffering from fatigue. She always makes the comment that whenever she's busy, bustling about getting things done, that she feels happier, but the past few weeks she's been busy as usual, but not feeling happy in herself. She's young and healthy, but was exhausted and had to start taking naps. She gets tired a lot more quickly than usual now, and is just generally feeling worn down.

In terms of more physical signs, perhaps the character hasn't been sleeping well because of nausea etc, so may be pale, or have dark circles under her eyes. Maybe she starts handling temperatures differently - my friend seems to be constantly overheated recently, her body is having a hard time regulating temperature.

Oh, and apparently congestion becomes an issue...lots and lots of congestion

This isn't really on-topic for this thread, but I really didn't want to start an entire new thread and I thought some of the people following this topic would probably be able to help me.

How old, approximately, would you say baby Clark and the baby left them are? And was there ever a specific age given for when Clark arrived? Because I don't know much about babies, and just can't judge their ages.

Well, I haven't seen any of the "baby" episodes of L&C, but I noticed that in Richard Donner's Superman: The Movie", the boy emerging from the space ship looked like a toddler rather than a baby. I think he might have been perhaps 18 months old, maybe more. In the comics, though, I think it was usually assumed that Clark really was a baby, younger than six months old, when he arrived on the Earth.

And by the way, Greenie, I am looking forward to the story that I hope prompted you to ask this question about the indicators of pregnancy - (assuming it's a L&C story, that the pregnant woman is Lois, and that the man wondering about her possible pregnancy is Clark!)

Ann

I've seen the movies. Little Clark is much younger in Lois & Clark.

In the episode "Strange Visitor (from Another Planet)", Jonathan tells Clark that they found him in Schuster's Field on May 17, 1966. In "Never on Sunday" Clark says that his birthday is February 28, 1966. I read on one of the boards somewhere that Clark's birthday has historically been February 29 in the comics, but 1966 wasn't a leap year and they wanted Clark to be the same age as Dean.

Now, presumably the Kents couldn't know the exact birthdate, but extrapolated based on how old he appeared to be when they found him. And I would say that the baby we saw in "Tempus Fugitive" looked anywhere from 2-5 months old...

Kathy

But that baby looked a lot smaller than Baby Clark to me. Or at least a lot balder.

But I would have pegged baby Clark as older than three months from his size. Wonder if the baby really was older than that? I just haven't spent enough time around babies to know either way.

Well, obviously we have no idea how old the baby who played baby Clark was. He could easily have been (and most likely was) older than the 2.5 months that the two dates would indicate.

But it can be very difficult to accurately judge a baby's age by the size. My baby (who's now a teenager) was close to 10 pounds when he was born, which put him at 20 pounds by 4 months, and time to move into a forward-facing car seat. For babies with birth weights of 6 or 7 pounds (not at all unusual), it would take them considerably longer to move into the front-facing car seat.

Kathy

If I had to guess I would say he looked around 7 months but Kathy is right it's really impossible to guess a baby's age.

Not that this has anything to do with anything but I just thought I'd mention that babies are no longer moved into fwd facing car seats until they are 20lbs AND 1 year old.

Jackie

Yes, I don't think this was the rule at the time, but believe me, I was nervous about moving him at such a young age to the front-facing seat...but his paediatrician told me to. I would guess that he weighed about 30 lbs at a year old, so he would have been totally overflowing that rear-facing seat.

I'm glad that they continuously review and revise these types of safety standards. My mother has said that when I was little, they had to PAY EXTRA to have seat belts installed in the back seat of their new car, because they were considered optional equipment...

Kathy M

It's not obvious. The info could be out there somewhere. I know how old the twin baby actors from the second-to-last ep of ENT were when it was filmed.

I wanted an opinion, because if a date wasn't given (and one was, I think with Clark being assigned a birthdate about three months before) I'd try to guess by the baby's age.

I know kids are different sizes. My cousin was 10 and a half pounds when she was born. I think I was about 17 pounds when I was two.

I'm sorry, I guess I should have been more clear.

As far as I know, no one has shared, with members of this fandom, the identity of the baby actor who played baby Clark in that first Tempus episode. Certainly there are people who would have that knowledge - the parents, the agent(?), the baby himself - and there may indeed be *fans* who know, but I've never seen the information posted, nor has anyone divulged to us the age of the unknown baby at the time.

Exactly my point, so you can see why it can be difficult to look at a baby - the one in that episode or any other - and try to guess the age based on size. You need other behavioral clues. And I've never been very good at that anyway, even when my own son was little and I was around a number of infants...

Kathy

I just don't like being told "well, obviously we don't know" in regards to a question I asked, when it is entirely reasonable (IMO) that someone might know - trivia like that turns up in fandoms all the time. It didn't seem like a stupid question to me, based on prior experiences in other fandoms.

While I know babies of the same age may vary widely in size, I was asking "what age does this child look to you" based on average baby sizes. Not "what age could the babies be" but "what ages are most likely." My "wonder if" question was not a real question but an idle observation that the child looked bigger to me, based on my admittidly extremely limited knowledge of babies. It was more an idle "I wonder how far off I am in judging these things"

I did not doubt anyone anyone's response. I was, I admit, hoping for something closer than a three month range on the other baby, just because I like to put labels on things (baby Clark doesn't matter since an on-screen estimate of the age was given - thanks for that bit info, BTW)

I suppose the more correct question would have been "how old do you think they were intended to be?"

Tzigone, when I thought about it for a story I was considering, I set the age of the baby in "Family Hour" at 12 weeks. I didn't see anything in his behavior or size that would contradict that, and it was useful for my story line, so I picked that age: 3 months old, give or take a week, although I think 4 months old could also be likely. To me, both 2 months and 5 months seemed too far out of the norm, so I'm definitely inclined to go with 3-4 months.

Does anyone know the average birth weight of the babies born to women who show late in their pregnancies?

TLAT

Thanks. I'm not quite sure if I'm going to do anything with this yet, but I like being able to put a closer number on it. Now I just have to look up what a three or fourth old is like developmentally.

Take it from a former maternity nurse, when a woman begins to show has very little to do with a baby's birth weight, unless there is something wrong. Usually it simply has to do with how the baby is carried. My first baby didn't even start to show until I was around 5 months, and he was a solid 7 pounds.

Nan

Thanks Nan. I think this will help a lot.

TLAT