Hey there,
What do you call a man's tank top/undershirt? I've heard it called both a "wifebeater" and a "guinea tee" -- neither of which is a very PC or Clark-like term for the garment! And "tank top" sounds a bit too girly.... Would "undershirt" be good enough? I have Clark wearing it to bed so it's not really UNDER anything. Any suggestions?
Thanks! -Wanda

Why would the term "tank top" be too girly? That's exactly what I would call a man's shirt like that ... there isn't a different term, as far as I know.

There are (thin, white) tank top undershirts, but I can't see Clark wearing one and especially not to bed. Jonathan, maybe. It has an "older man" connotation to me ... something my dad would wear but not my husband. (Though my husband does wear regular white t-shirt undershirts under business clothing.)

When Clark sleeps on the show, he either wears boxer shorts or sleep shorts alone, or he pairs the sleep shorts with a regular t-shirt or muscle shirt (t-shirt with the sleeves cut off). I don't know that we've ever seen him in a real tank top ... not that I can recall, in any case. Even that episode where he took Jonathan to the health club, I think he was wearing a muscle shirt -- it seems to be his choice for lounging clothes.

Kathy

Kathy, what the heck do you think you are doing, kill me here? My heart is going pitty-pat at your descriptions of Clark, and there's no way I'm going to be able to calm myself down until I can go home to Vancouver where all my tapes are, and WATCH THOSE EPS again... But I have another three weeks to tough it out here, and you just have to tease a girl, doncha?

Melisma (ducking back under her Rock to try to calm down...)

i'm pretty sure clark was in a tank top at one point. not certain of this, but a bubble of memory percolating from the depths tells me he was wearing one in this scene where he's working on a punching bag. i think it was during "requium for a superhero," but, wouldn't you know it, that's one of the few season 1 eps that christiane doesn't have screencaps for.

hmm. found a realplayer clip of parts of the scene i was thinking of. it's hard to tell, because it focuses mostly on his upper torso, but i think it's just a sleevless "muscle shirt," like kathy said.

it's odd, tho. i have the distinct feeling he was in a tank top at some point.

or maybe i'm just remembering a pic of dean in some other role that posted to the boards or something. i don't pay quite as much attention to clark's attire as some of the other members...

in any case, i can't quite see clark (or much of anyone, for that matter) wearing a tank top to bed. pj's are all about being comfortable, and tank tops aren't comfortable so much as revealing.

Paul

Let us see... there's Resurrection, where he's dressed as Spike, and... Ordinary People, when they're on the island. Those are the two tank top scenes that come to mind. Mmmmm.

oh, wait... you're just asking for the name of a shirt that clark might wear to bed. that's different. (i'll leave out the fact that most of the time, for some odd reason, clark was shown going to bed without a top...)

there are undershirts. those are just plain white sleeveless shirts. and, even if there isn't something on top of it, it's still called an undershirt. and yeah, there are guys who wear those to bed.

personally, i prefer old tshirts... the kind that have become old favorites, soft and comfortable from repeated washings, but which are no longer suitable to wear outside (a small hole or two, or maybe a stain or something).

there are, of course, actual pajamas. not sure how common they are.

Paul

Well, I tend to always associate tank top with teenage girls because a few decades ago, here in the UK, they were part of every teen girl's major fashion wardrobe. Men might have worn them too, but my memory doesn't extend that far if they did.

I always thought that was a UK thing though which didn't apply in the US, seeing as how I've read so many fanfic that have Clark wearing them.

After a time I got over it. But it seemed a very strange thing for him to do for a time. Certainly wouldn't give me any weird mind images now though.


LabRat

I guess THIS was what I was thinking of... Clark never wore this kind of thing to bed? Oh well, I guess he'll have to be shirtless! ;-)

Thanks for all of the input! -Wanda.

Well, I'm confused here because, since 'tank top' has a different meaning over here, I tried some time ago to figure out what the US meaning was, and I thought it was the same as the 'muscle t-shirt' Kathy refers to and which Clark is wearing in the picture Kathy posted. So what is it?

Here, a tank top is a knitted V-neck sleeveless sweater, intended to be worn over a shirt - of the cotton, button-up kind which would be work with a tie. Men do wear them, but it's not exactly a fashion item, and it's mainly older men or the tweedy 'academic' type who would wear them.

So... yet again we are divided by a common language!


Wendy (who remembers getting puzzled by Lois apparently wearing pumps with her business suits, since in the UK 'pumps' are gym shoes, similar to trainers. )

To us, that knitted top would be considered a vest. The other thing we would consider a vest is the type of sleeveless thing worn over a shirt, but able to zip or button or something like that.

Over here, at least, a tank top is a shirt that has straps instead of sleeves. Most tank tops have wide straps, but some have thin "spaghetti" straps.

A sleeveless shirt {one designed that way by the manufacturer} would not be considered a tank top. A shirt with the sleeves taken off would be a muscle shirt.

...and here a vest is worn underneath clothes. It may be what Paul calls an undershirt. The most common variety, and only worn by older men, is a string vest. I had an example, but it was (quite rightly ) pointed out to me that the photo wasn't quite PG13. Sorry!

Anyway, a man's string vest is similar in shape to the T-shirt Clark is wearing in the tattoo pics, but instead of being made of solid stretch cotton (standard T-shirt fabric) it's sort of webbed cotton - ie, like fishnet tights/pantyhose, it's full of holes. And considered very tacky these days.

Edit: Okay, found something. This string vest has larger holes than some, but still is a good illustration:



Though I now notice that string vests have become fashionable for women, and although sold as lingerie are intended to be worn as outerwear: The women's ones do have larger holes than the men's:



I'm just getting old!


Wendy

Both of those would be tank tops.

These are vests for us.



And this would be a pullover or a pullover vest.

Wanda, yes, the shirts Lois and Clark are wearing in that promo picture -- known as the "tattoo" photo spread -- are what we call tank top undershirts. But, as you guessed, Clark never wore one on the show itself, only in that particular promo shot.

I don't think anyone will complain about him being shirtless in your story, though.

Kathy

okay, now i'm a bit confused. but, before i get to that, i should clear up my understanding of a couple other issues.

first off, i'd call the sort of thing clark's wearing in that promo shot an undershirt. white, plain cotton, sleeveless, thin. that's an undershirt, or pretty close to it.

second, clark did wear something like that a couple of times on the show. in "requiem for a superhero," he has it on while he's playing around with the punching bag. as ems pointed out, he also wore a shirt like that on spencer spencer's island (when they're on the beach, he's wearing a hawaian style shirt, but later he's got a dark sleeveless shirt on), and possibly a couple other times.

the thing is, i thought that darker sleeveless thing was what kathy meant by "muscle shirt." for some reason, i've got this idea that a tank top is not only sleeveless but ends above the waistline, sometimes above belly button. maybe i'm confusing it with something else, but when i hear "tank top," i think of something that leaves at least a couple inches of the midriff exposed.

if anyone wants, i can get a small pic of clark in that boxing scene, as well as a link to a realmedia file of it (upgrading software on this comp, and i don't quite have time to dig around on another site before it finishes and i need to disconnect).

Paul

p.s. well, i've got nothing better to do at the moment, so i went and found the links. i know it's moot now, but... <shrug> here's a pic from requiem.



also, here's a realmedia clip of the scene.

both came originally from here.

OK, so what about a man's 3-piece business suit? We'd call the outer garment at the top a jacket (I think in the US you'd call it a coat), and the bottom garment trousers (US: pants). The sleeveless garmet under the jacket and over his shirt, we'd call a waistcoat or vest. What would it be called in the US?

Yvonne

LOL, I really opened up a can of worms in this topic!! lol!

The "3rd" piece of a 3-piece suit is also called a vest in the US. The sleeveless sweatery garment worn over a shirt (usually by older men) is called a "sweater vest."

I think I've decided to avoid confusion and have Clark sleep shirtless. Nobody minds that, after all!

I really had no idea that the word would be that different abroad! Well, at least it makes for a more interesting conversation! Thanks FoLCs!

-Wanda

That's called a belly-shirt, at least according to my cousin from the Philly/Jersey area.

hmm. odd. i grew up in NJ (am still here, actually), and i've never heard that term. i still call 'em tank tops. <g>

Paul

Thanks, Paul, for finding that photo of Clark in "Requiem" ... I was looking online today, too, but struck out.

But yes, that is what I understand is called a "muscle shirt" -- it's like a shirt/sweatshirt with the sleeves cut off. Not the same thing as a tank top, which is designed with "straps" over the shoulders. (IOW, a muscle shirt is more cut straight up from the sleeve, which is what Clark is wearing while boxing in that photo.)

Kathy

I'm thinking that you're asking about a wife-beater? Leastaways, that's what we call 'em 'round here. Actually, the term comes from Marlon Brando wearing one in A Streetcar Named Desire in the scene where he screams: "Stella, STELLA!", IIRC. And my younger brothers wear them as a matter of course, so it's not just and older man sorta thing.

Laura

We also call them wifebeaters, but it isn't exactly politically correct -- and it really bothers me whenever I hear the term. And, as the first post stated, she doesn't think Clark would call it a wifebeater.

I believe that older men tend to wear them as undershirts and younger men tend to wear them as actual shirts -- people like Eminem are shown wearing them all the time.

Personally, since I hate the term wifebeater, I usually call them "tank tops."

- Laura

<shrug> It's the common term for it, and it doesn't bother me. Then again, I *hate* all that PC garbage.

And only a few celebs do that, Alicia. Most of the guys I know actually *do* wear them as undershirts.

Laura (who thinks that people should just say what they think and not worry about if it's PC or not.)

True, sometimes it is helpful to be up-front and honest. Then again, there is that small matter of tact and diplomacy... what was that conversation Lois had with Clark about how he'd react if his wife had her hair done in a style Lois was sure he'd hate?

And no, there's no way on earth that Clark would call any garment a 'wifebeater'. (Ugh! ) Even if he could stomach the term, which I'm sure he couldn't, Lois would never let him get away with it!


Wendy

Okay, I protest! I think this thread should have a warning on it! The trauma of reading through all these posts reminding me of just how awful tank tops were has been deplorable! And pictures! )

What Clark is wearing in the promo picture is called a singlet here. Guys usually wear them under business shirts or by themselves in the warmer weather. The top Lois is wearing is a tank top.
It's also very fashionable for young women to wear a guy's singlet as a shirt these days.

What on earth are deeleyboppers??

Tricia

If you missed deeleyboppers, all credit to you, Tricia.

They were something of a craze here in the UK for a time. An alice band with two lengths of spring attached to which were attached glitter-covered balls or stars or whatever in various neon colours.

Whenever you moved your head they waved and bounced around. And they weren't just reserved for discos and nightclubs and parties. Oh no - that wouldn't have been silly enough. <g> You wore them to school, to the office, when you went shopping...

I guess they were fun at the time, but oh my looking back on them now....

Still...least they weren't as lethal as clackers.... (two balls separated by a length of string that you manipulated to 'clack' the balls together top and bottom in a steady beat. If you missed a beat, boy those were vicious...)

LabRat (who's sure she still has clacker bruises somewhere even today...)

And an "alice band" would be... a hair band, I presume?

- Vicki

Yup. As in the type of hair band Alice used in Alice In Wonderland. A plastic band that holds the hair back from the face, while allowing it to fall loose:



And this is the best picture of deeleyboppers I could find:



LabRat

I have to say that I have nothing worthwhile to add here. But, for me, this thread just continues to get more and more fascinating.

Who knew?

CC

You guys just crack me up!! I have tears in my eyes from reading these posts.

No matter what you call it, my all time favorite Clark get-up that involved no sleeves and a whole lot of muscle was the black "muscle shirt" he wore in Ordinary People - when the evil doc had him strapped to the operating table. Dean in black. Yum!!

Lynn

Hey Lynn,

Do you mean this tank top? I knew there was another reason why I love that episode....




Thanks for the pictures, Christiane!!!

Missy (who agrees that shirtless will do quite nicely, but really likes this black shirt! )

That's the one!!

Something about a dark-haired, dark-skinned man in black is just too much for me. I may just have to dig out the tape with this epi and find this scene.

<deep sigh>

Lynn

LabRat (who thinks that says it all really)

I have been trying to keep on lurking, but this topic (and Tricia's post) has got me out of lurkhood again.

In Singapore, we call that undershirt that Clark is wearing a "singlet" as well. According to the Webster's, "singlet" is a term for "undershirt" that's commonly used in UK English. I'm not surprised that in Singapore, we use the term "singlet" rather than "undershirt". After all, we do generally use UK terms rather than their US equivalent. I think the fact that Singapore was an ex-UK colony has something to do with this.

What's really surprising is that from this posts, I'm getting the impression from Labrat and Wendy that the term "singlet" is no longer used in UK anymore? Only at Tricia's post do I see the term "singlet" materialise. And she's from Australia. So...

I'm a little confused.


metwin1

Hey Metwin1 - welcome back!

I had heard the term 'singlet', but it never occurred to me as the appropriate term until Tricia mentioned it. Yes, 'singlet' does apply to that type of T-shirt, but it's just not that commonly used in the UK any more, at least that's my impression. I think where it is used the association might be with something worn for running or other sporting activity.

But no way would we call it a tank top!


Wendy

As far as I know, in the US, a "singlet" is a tight-fitting garment worn for wrestling (and maybe other sports). The top is like the 'tank top' we are discussing here, but the bottom is like stretch shorts. It's a one-piece garment-- like a leotard with bike shorts attached.
Gotta love the English language!!!
-Wanda
PS: I am learning so much from this post--I sort of feel bad that after all this effort I'm going to have Clark shirtless. Perhaps he should have a singlet on. Or deeleyboppers!

For what it's worth, I believe they're called A-Shirts when you buy them in packages from Hanes or Fruit of the Loom. I've never heard that in conversation, though. I've always heard them called wifebeaters, distasteful as that is.

BTW, thanks, Labrat! I hadn't thought about deelyboppers in years, but I was the proud owner of several pairs as a kid. They were right up there with those super-attractive feather clips and T-shirt slides...

http://underwear-buy.com/mens_t_shirts.html

They are called tanks on this site.

Went to the site given, and thought I would check out the home page - and there was a set of Superman shorts offered!!! Go quick before they change it

Melisma (giggling here under her Rock)

LabRat (who is at least thankful that there are no incriminating photos in her photo album...)

Oh, I doubt anyone is going to complain, Wanda.

Oh my, there's an image. Thanks, Wanda - I'll be chuckling over that one all day.

BTW...what's a tshirt slide?

LabRat (who isn't sure she wants to ask that last one...it might be something horrendous her mind has blissfully managed to avoid remembering too closely over the years....)

T-shirt slides were what we called those plastic buckles/clips you would use to runch up the side of your oversized, hot pink T-shirt.

They looked like rings with a bar through them and you threaded the bottom corner of your shirt through them. Bonus points were awarded if you could coordinate it with one of your 3 pairs of scrunch socks.

LOL, Pearlieq. I don't think they made it over the pond. Or at least, if they did, I mercifully missed out on them!

LabRat (hurrah for at least one fashion coup...)