There's this thing. The toilet seat. Men use it more often in the "up" position, and women always use it in the "down" position.

A lot of men tend to leave it in the "up" position. A lot of women find this annoying. A lot of men are confused and annoyed that women berate them over it.

The way my Mom puts it is that she sometimes gets up in the middle of the night and is too tired to check the seat position. If it's not down, she could be in trouble.

This, to me, seems rediculously lazy. I mean, if I took the same philosophy, deciding in the middle of the night that I was too tired to check the seat, there's a good chance she'd find herself sitting on a wet seat. I'm responsible enough to check, though, and it seems that she should be, too (especially if there's a danger to her).

There's also the fact that the seat isn't a pleasant thing to touch. I'll lift it up if I need to, but it seems a bit much to ask for me to have to be the one to put it back down, too. We don't even know whether it'll need to be up or down the next time.

So, what do you guys think?

Well, I voted and agree with you on all counts, Paul. Have to say that I've never understood the fuss about this one or why it should be a man's responsibility to 'get it right'.

Wasn't there a poll/debate about this a time back? I'm getting deja vu...

LabRat

Well, to me the seat has to be down and the lid shut. So whoever goes (male or female) has a job to do: close the lid. Since closing the lid involves putting the seat down, sorry guys, you have a double task.

Kaethel

It just looks untidy with the seat up, IMO. The design of every toilet I've ever seen makes it clear that the seat was never meant to be left up. Besides, men also need it to be down on a fairly regular basis (unless there's something seriously wrong with them ).

Yvonne

Yes, I'm the deviant who said I was a tree for question number two. I think "put it right" would depend on who's answering...

Lab - were you maybe thinking of the toilet paper poll?

Sara

I'm the deviant who said I was a tree for both questions! Really, you should know better

I vote for leave everything down: seat and lid. Not because of tidiness, but because of animals. I can't count how many times I'd walk past the bathroom only to see a canine head poked through the seat of the toilet. So it became a habit.

However, I, like Paul's mom, learned long ago to check the seat first. After all, while I leave them both down, a 5 year old boy.. and 15 year old, and 45 year old.. may tend to leave both up. Which makes for a very soggy bottom at 2am.

Everything down. Always. Because of the dog. 'Nuff said.

Although, before the dog, he still had to be careful to put the seat down. You can call it lazy but when you sleepwalk like I do, and you're really sick...and you fall into the toilet, your husband tends to feel sorry for you and not do it again. Then the dog came and it was a moot point anyway.

I don't mind if I have to put the toliet seat down. It only takes a couple of extra seconds to do so. Granted, there have been times when I almost "fell" in, but I only ended up laughing about it because I was too out of it to check.

Okay, I think the seat and the lid both have to be down and yes, I do have a valid reason - a gross one, but a valid one.

I read about a study that said that when a toilet is flushed, there is a very fine spray that comes out and disperses over a very wide area. As a result, I ALWAYS flush the toilet with the lid closed to contain the germs.

Irene

I never understood why there's such an issue of men needing the toilet seat up anyway. My father and brothers all use the toilet with the seat down. (Sometimes a little bit of cleaning up is necessary afterwards, but wouldn't you clean it up even if there wasn't a toilet seat? Is putting the seat back down some means of sterilization?)

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

I've heard that, too, Irene, and it grosses me out . For that reason I always close the lid, and I try to impress upon my brother to do the same when we're both living under the same roof (we share a bathroom <g>). If you don't want to touch it, Paul, maybe use a piece of toilet paper? As for the seat itself, someone (my mom?) must have trained my father and brother early on, because I have never come upon a toilet with the seat up at home.

Unfortunately for me, nine months of the year I live in a dorm with coed bathrooms. Guys don't put the lid down here. I'm grateful they flush But then again, it's basically a public toilet, so I don't sit on it anyway. I have hygiene issues . I don't touch the handle, either...

I'm grateful my cats at home have never shown any interest whatsoever in the toilets unless someone's sitting on them, in which case my cat will push the door open and watch... Weird cat

Kaylle

No, not that one, Sara. I have a distinct memory of a debate on this very subject, if not a poll. I seem to recall posting at one point something similar to Irene's post - that I'd heard that it's wise to keep the seat down because you let germs escape if you don't (although Irene fills in the blank of why this would happen, which I didn't know till now <g>).

Also agree with the tidiness aspect. I always keep mine down (and perhaps my ambivulence on the subject is down to the fact that my mother-inlaw (bless her little cotton socks) who had 6 sons, trained every single one of them to put the seat down, so I've never had to yell at Stuart about this one ).

LabRat

What bugs me is my Dad, who always used to put the seat down, until the last couple of years, when he seems to have decided that leaving it up is some kind of statement. I'm still trying to work out whether or not this is related to his drift from the left to the right, politically speaking.

Yvonne

Well, it was driving me nuts, so I went on the hunt and found it:

Male Quirks

Actually a poll about something else which drifted. <g>

LabRat

I definitely agree with the tidiness aspect. I live in an apartment with a relatively small bathroom. The bathroom has a bathtub, but no window. When I take a shower in the bath, the bathroom gets all muggy and moist, so I tend to always leave the bathroom door open. And when I do that, I think it looks just plain gross if the toilet lid isn't down. And of course, when the lid is down, so is the seat.

And Yvonne, I would have become irritated if a man I knew who used to leave the seat down suddenly began leaving it up. I would, indeed, take it as a sort of demonstration of male arrogance!

But there are some people who simply can't change their ways, no matter how much you nag them. My best friend, a woman, simply can't leave the lid down when she's used my toilet. Reminding her simply doesn't work. She'll leave it up again the next time.

But, Paul, I almost answered that I was a hermaphrodite, just so that I could say that I was torn on this issue!

Ann

Regarding the second question, couldn't one argue that since men don't have to pee standing up but women have no choice in the matter, it is the man's responsibility to make sure the seat's down? After all, he could simply sit down and the problem could be avoided altogether.

The *lid* must always be *down* to prevent not only animals trying to drink from it, but to prevent objects from falling in. It's *not* pleasant fishing them out, I can assure you. I'm hyperalert about things falling in, so I almost always put the lid down any time I use a toilet.

By the way, I have to tell you what I read in a Swedish newspaper about a week ago. The paper had tested ice cubes that are put in soft drinks in McDonalds restaurants and other burger bars, and compared the bacteria content of the ice cubes with the bacteria content in the water of a toilet bowl. Guess what? The bacteria content in the ice cubes was hundreds of times higher in the Coca Cola ice cubes than in the water of the toilet bowl!!!

Ann

Arrgh! Ann! I'll never be able to go McDonalds again. *sobs* I diet of junkfood...all ruined. :p

About the toilet-seat issue... Well, I find it a bit annoying when people leave it up. I don't mind that much, though. When you have a little brother whose hobby is to throw stuff in the toilet which *you* have to remove...the toilet seat sort of just becomes a slight annoyance.

There's a current ad on TV over here which claims that most kitchen chopping boards contain more bacteria than a toilet seat...

Just to freak you out more.

LabRat

LOL, LabRat and Ann!

You sure know how to freak out people. Actually, you're both right on the ice cubes thing and the average kitchen chopping board.

Hm, well I'll never use ice again.

Meanwhile, I share an apartment with 3 other females so it's not an issue. However, I'm not the most observant person most of the time, so if the toilet seat does get left up, there's a good chance something bad will happen when I walk into the bathroom. For the sake of my sanity, I like it when my male friends take the time to put the seat down.

JD :p

LOL! I'm not sure if his drift to the right is responsible for his leaving the toilet seat up, but I'm one of the two men in this poll who leaves the toilet seat down, despite being a right-winger. I find it's a matter of common courtesy. I believe in personal responsiblity, so it's not the guy's fault if someone ends up falling and getting wet, but I don't see why men can't be courteous. In fact I put it down as a matter of habit and don't even think about it even if it's a toilet where I am pretty much the only user.

As a matter of practicality, men sometimes do have to sit on the toilet.

I'd always thought that this was a classic 'much ado about nothing' situation. Living alone I don't have to worry and the toilet seat is pretty much left which every way it was used last.

If I'm at someone else's place I will usually leave the seat the way I found it, however that was.

Tank (who is generally more concerned about the 'strength' of the toilet seat rather than if it's up or down)

Well, I don't share a bathroom, so it's not an issue for me. But I think it should be put back down. Because, presuming there an equal number of males and females using the toilet and that they have equal bathroom needs (a big assumption, I know), the toilet seat will need to be down more often than up.

I admit that it is highly unfair of me, but I voted that it's the man's job/responsibility to put the seat down after using it. There is absolutely nothing worse than trudging into the bathroom at 3 a.m., eyes still shut, only to find icy cold water where you expected a seat and air! And it's just not in my habit to check to see if the seat is down.

But I do admit that this isn't necessarily a fair expectation on my part. Thankfully, my husband was raised with two sisters, so he's in the habit of putting the seat back down. So is my son. I think a big part of it, too, is that the bathroom looks much tidier with the lid closed. Nothing gives me wiggins more than when I enter a public restroom (usually of the gas station variety) to see that the toilet seat has been left up. If at all possible, I try to back out of the room without touching anything and find another facility.

Now, as for the toilet paper...can anyone out there explain to me how my college-educated, fairly common-sensical and very capable husband cannot manage to actually put the new roll of toiler paper on the dispenser but rather leaves it sitting on the back of the toilet or floor or nearby with the empty paper tube left useless?

It's a mystery, I tell you.


Lynn

Oh dear. I'm so guilty of this. But I can't tell you why this mystery occurs with me either. Fortunately, I share a bathroom with my best friend, but it's a wonder she hasn't yet thrown an empty cardboard tube at me.

Jen

Why do men have to lift it anyway? cant they aim?

i dont like touching the seat.. if men need to use it up, fine. but it is their responsibility to put it back.

touching it is disgusting, so why having the trouble to put it up and down? wouldnt it be easier to just train your aim a little better?

its like using a plate - if you eat on it, wash it.

MDL.

We should start a new poll about whether the toilet paper should be placed so that the sheets roll towards you or away from you.

Are you sure you're willing to trust us?

Already done, James started one last December.
TP Poll

As to Lynn's question, I don't have the answer for that either. Laziness?

Kathy

Originally posted by Mad Dog Lane: Erica, I read someplace that men need a target to hit. If they have someting obvious to aim at, they will hit it. To test this theory, a scientist fastened a plastic little insect-thing or something on an appropriate place inside the toilet bowl. Guess what, people? Suddenly the men could aim! No lifting of the toilet seat was necessary! No spilling! So, all you women with a not-so-toilet-trained husband out there. Buying a small plastic fly with a sort of fastening mechanism for your toilet bowl may be a better idea than nagging your husband about proper bathroom etiquette!

Ann

*snicker* That's why we kept Cheerios in the bathroom while potty training my little brother. Toss them into the bowl, and tell him to aim. It worked fairly well.

Lol, Karen, I think I'd be afraid to do that unless I knew he hated Cheerios Maybe something less edible <g>

I agree with those who close the whole thing for sanitary reasons. My toothbrush also resides inside the cabinet for similar reasons.

*shudders delicately*

Well, we have five cats. Leaving the seat up is a sure-fire way to have a dripping wet, pissed off cat racing around the house (they don't always look where they leap) so my husband and son automatically close all seats and lids when they are done.

Seems simple to me!

I'm with Paul: this whole seat up-or-down business has always struck me as being utterly ridiculous. Mind you, it's not something I have much of a choice about, as modern toilet and seat design seems to be such that the seat won't stay up even if one wanted it to! Half the time, the lid won't stay up either, unless you kick it the right way (and, unless you get an electrically heated one, a seat lid is cold when it hits you in the small of the back!).

It's not quite that simple. We can aim, but a lot of anatomical considerations which I shall not detail here can mean that where we aim is not where the flow goes (anything up to 30-40 degrees "off-boresight", so to speak); and sometimes even aiming is not easy, requiring three-dimensional contortions that, AFAIK, women would never need to do. So it makes sense for us to use the significantly bigger "target" of the bowl with the seat up. There are other, minor considerations, but discussing them would make this thread even more scatological than it already is.

Phil

I had no idea this "elegant" Greek word had passed on to the English vocabulary. /me is laughing hysterically. For some reason, it looks really funny to me.

Off to your scheduled thread...
AnnaBtG.

Let me briefly revisit my random variables class....

Define an (admittedly minor) element of work to be changing the position of the toilet seat. Assume a random normal distribution of bathroom habits -- men and women visit the bathroom with equal regularity and have either reason for visiting with equal frequency. We neglect vomiting as a rare occurrence outside of pregnancy.

Under the assumption that the seat should always be left down, there are no elements of work involved in a woman going to the bathroom -- it starts down, ends down, doesn't move. There is an expected one element of work done each time a man goes to the bathroom -- either zero or two, depending on where he needs it. The average expected work per person per visit to the bathroom is one-half unit.

If the seat is left where it was last used, then moved to where it is needed, things become a little more complicated. Assuming equal distribution again, there is a 75% chance that the seat was already down. A woman would never need to move it, a man might need to move it. In the remaining 25% of the time, a woman would always need to move it, a man might need to move it. Average expected work per person per visit is three-eights unit.

Moving the seat where you need it requires 25% less overall work.

Consider gender allocation: If the seat is always down, the man's expected work per bathroom visit is one; the woman's expected work is zero. If the seat is moved as needed, the woman's expected work is one-quarter; the man's is one-half. Guys are basically asking women to take a share of the effort.

Of course, the assumption of all probabilities being equal is not necessarily accurate. If the number of males and females in the house is not equal, if one (or more) of the women are pregnant, if people in the house have markedly different bladder capacities, etc. then adjust probabilities accordingly.

Less tongue-in-cheek, I can understand wanting the lid down for aesthetic, pet-drinking, or accidental-object-dropping reasons. Lid down implies seat down. Too, that way work is shared -- everyone has to lift the lid (and possibly seat) and put it back down. Work per person per visit is always two. Higher work for the aesthetic you want, but equality is achieved.

Pets and people falling in? Really an issue of what you're used to. My cats never had an issue of falling in, and actually they didn't drink from the toilet as long as their water bowl was full. But if you don't care about the lid then trying to specify a seat position just seems pointless to me.

ok, I was raised in a mostly female household, so I was trained at an early age to do things the 'right way'. (A habit that was mostly untrained out of me during the 5 years I lived on my own. Now that I am the only male in a five person household, the original training has reasserted itself.)

However, saying that, I have to agree with Paul on on thing, it is ridiculous to imagine someone actually not checking to see if the toilet seat is up or not. Everyone should at least check if the lid is up or not! Even in darkness, anyone should be able to tell the difference between the lid and the seat!

On the other hand, we have three girls. And yes, if the lid, at least, is not down, things DO get dropped in!

My final analysis is that whether male or female, one should return the various parts of the toilet to the original condition in which it was found. This should satisfy any gender combination or lack there of. And, if you have children, train them to do the same...

James