I chose other for the first question, because I don't read fanfic on zoomway's message board. I read fanfic here and on the archive. However, it has to be edited. A writer has to spend at least as much time writing as I will reading or else it isn't worth my time. A story has to be written in good English for me to read it. If it is work for me to read, it is not worth my time to try.

- Laura

I had to chose other for the first question since I simply do not visit those other boards.

For the other two, I chose the second option. I don't mind a little mistake. Nothing's perfect. However, I do like what I read to be on a high level of English. On the boards, the story should have been spell checked and Beta Read. And on the archive, there's the GE going over it. So at the end of the line, the story is near perfect. Again, a few mistakes are fine. But if I spot five mistakes within the first paragraph, I'll stop reading because it would take me too much time to figure out what was meant. And I like to spend my time well.

Saskia

I voted 'A little mistake I can tolerate' in all questions. Really, I can tolerate a little mistake, or a few little mistakes here and there. After all, I make such mistakes too; I'm not a native English speaker.
However, when it gets to a point that makes me want to paste it in Word and start editing... no, I won't read it. Because then, it wouldn't be *reading*.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

Okay, I have a few problems with this poll.

1. The options offered aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. For example, "I read it for the fun of it" isn't a separate concept to "Fully edited with absolutely no mistake at all." I read for fun, but fun to me is a fic that's written with good grammar and spelling.

2. "I don't mind if the grammer and spelling is horrific as long as I can understand it." You see, that's just the problem: if the grammar and spelling are bad, then generally speaking, I can't understand it. Maybe it's my failing, but I'm really not very good at understanding broken English - I'm equally bad at spoken broken English, as it happens.

3. Why are there the same set of questions for both fanfic boards? Surely a person's attitude to grammar and spelling is the same irrespective of which board they read their fanfic on?

Yvonne

I also thought the "read for fun" option was interesting - I mean, no one reads fanfic because there's a gun at their heads, or for class credit... do they?

The fact is, grammar and spelling mistakes in a fic will pop my attention right out of the story and onto the writing. This is a major problem for the writer - they should be concerned about anything that's going to get between me and the story.

And fixing spelling is such a simple thing to do with modern word processors - granted, fixing grammar takes a bit more work, but if you care enough about your story to present it to other people to read, producing it in a form that makes it a pleasure to read and not a chore is only sensible.

Mere

I only put that there because I wound up having an extra space for the first two questions that I didn't need. Too lazy to click on the back button.

That's the only way I can figure out how to post my question. In case someone goes to one and not the other.

I guess now I can ask that people that their votes are not needed anymore. I guess this answers my own person question as to post my stories here or zoomway, anymore.

Kitty, this question is posted on the lcficmbs. People that read fanfics on zoomway.net might not be reading this board or registered to vote in the poll, so it seems like a moot point.

How many times have people told you that grammar and spelling are important? That's because they are vitally important, and that opinion is not going to change.

- Laura

:rolleyes:

No matter where I read fic, whether it be here, the Archives, or another fandom, I cannot read a fic if there are too many errors. Small minor grammar errors are fine, since people tend to disagree on comma, semi-colon, and other types of punctuation placements, but spelling errors are a no-no. This includes properly spelled but contextually wrong words. My mind will completely balk at the story, and it will refuse to read anymore.

That's one thing I'm grateful to this fandom for. All of our stories are well beta'd, and are archive has wonderful GEs, so that you'll always find a readable story. I've been poking in other fandoms, and oh my god. Errors galore.

Catching up here... Well, I voted for tolerating a few mistakes when a story's posted on either message board -- I haven't read stories at Zoomway's for about a year and a half, but if I did, I'd apply the same standards there that I do here. Like others have said, I want an author to spell-check and try to get the grammar decent. I'm not even that picky on grammar, compared to some others in this thread, because I probably won't notice a misplaced comma or the occasional run-on sentence... but it has to be readable and avoid glaring errors, like changing verb tense in the middle of a sentence.

On the archive, I like stories to be perfect <g> Presumably, this is the final stop for a story, so the author's gotten it as good as he/she can manage, *with* the help of a GE to tidy up their commas (or is that just me? ) and therefore I want that story to be as near perfect as they can manage.

So, I'm more tolerant of stuff on the boards, but... if an author's not going to put much work into making the story readable, I'm not going to put any work into reading it.

PJ

Pam pretty much summed it up for me.

Yes, it's a 'me too' post - bad Rat. <G> But, hey, not spending time on trying to form a coherent response when Pam has already done the hard work for me and set it out so well...means I can go read part five of Mere's new story instead.

Thanks, Pam.

I don't read fanfic on eaither or the boards, but I voted how I would feel if I did, and that was to say that I would tolerate a few mistakes because, since I use both boards as giant beta readers for my own work, I know it's almost impossible for mistakes not to slip through.

As for reading in the Archive, I expect to read the story fully edited and with no mistakes, but I've never read a story in the Archive that was in that condition. It's just really hard to catch all the unintentional errors. And not everyone (writer or editor) has the same grammar background. There are some errors that appear repeatedly and I've learned to grit my teeth and ignore them, but blatant, 'this is the way I write and I don't care' errors are the ones that turn me off and make me stop reading. Those are usually noticeable in the first few paragraphs. Any writer who doesn't care enugh to want to be literate doesn't deserve the name "writer". At least that's the way I see it.

Jude

I usually don't respond in these areas but concerning the topic I felt I must. I suffer from dyslexia, sometimes I can control it and I write because the more I seem to write the better control I have over making sure letters are in the right place and I'm not seeing things that are misspelled as perfectly fine. I'm thankful for the red squiggle lines when it comes to my brain warping from time to time. I've been writing my entire life, even won awards, but since I write first person most people don't like my stories, and send me rude emails which is another reason I felt I had to respond to this poll. I just finished an over 1000 page fic that I will probably never post anywhere, but I feel the more you write, the more you get in touch with characters and ideas, the more of a handle you can get on any kind of learning disorder. Whether it be one like mine or just a simple one with grammar. After a while, you can tell when a sentence doesn't look right; or you can at least hope that happens.

It's also not hard to find someone to help you edit if needbe. So, spelling and grammar mistakes shouldn't even be much of an issue.

Anyone who sends flames over a story simply isn't worth the trouble of bothering about, Andrea.

I know that first person fic isn't to the taste of a lot of readers - it's not one of my own personal favourites either - but give posting a try. You really have nothing to lose. If you get zero fdk, it's no more than you're getting by not posting. And you might be pleasantly surprised.

I know that even though it's not my first choice, I have many favourite novels and authors who use first person and there are always exceptions to the rule that I'll enjoy. I'm sure I'm not the only one who has read and enjoyed first person stories in the past or who is willing to give them a try, at least.

LabRat

Well, I personally don't mind one or two small mistakes in a story if the story is well written otherwise. That goes for pretty much anywhere I read it online. We're all human beings, and the spell checker doesn't catch everything. The human eye doesn't catch everything 100% of the time, either. Since the archives standard is much higher than the boards, however, I prefer for them to be edited as much as possible.

I've found typos in published novels and newspapers recently, which is the only time it really annoys me because those editors are supposed to be professionals. The L&C fanfic archives have the best quality when it comes to editing, IMHO.

Speaking personally, I've always preferred reading first person or single POV books. I like to stick with one person who I can really get to know inside out and live their ups and downs as if they are my own. Jumping between various characters' heads tends to dilute that sensation, so that I end up feeling like more of an observer on the outside of a situation rather than someone who's right inside it.

L&C fic has been the exception to that - for some reason, I don't mind leaping between Lois and Clark, or even Luthor, Perry, Jimmy, Martha, and so on. Even so, I practically always enjoy reading Clark's POV more than anyone else's - unless they're really just reflecting whatever's happening to Clark <g>.

Yvonne

Kitty,

I don't mind a few mistakes. I do prefer for the story to have been beta read, passed through a spell-check program, etc. It makes it so much easier to read.

I'm more tolerant of mistakes here than I am on the archives. These are the only two places I read fanfic.

I am also much more tolerant of minor mistakes when I know that English is not the author's first language.

Two pet peeves of mine: I can't read a story that does not have spaces between paragraphs or one that flip-flops between present and past tense. (Clark looks at Lois. He went over to her and said, "Hi". She doesn't respond. Then she walked away, frowning.) I don't know why, but these two things just drive me crazy!

- Vicki

Funnily enough, those are the two basic errors that drive most everyone crazy, it seems. Most readers who are tolerant of just about anything will back off from reading a story which contains either.

Have to say I'm included in that group. No paragraphs and a huge block of text just gives me a headache trying to sort it out enough to read. It's just too much hard work to do to get to a story.

And switching tenses - well no idea why that's just one of those things that has my teeth clenching and me instantly closing down a file. Just one of those things that grates, I guess.

But, certainly, if I had a penny for every time I've heard those two mentioned as making readers drop a story....

LabRat

I know I probably have a few past present problems, not the blatent one that was used as an example, but sometimes I just get so into my characters that I forget the time I'm in. Sometimes I just start typing like a mad woman and go back later and say WTH did I just type?? Thoughts bleeding from me.

I do a lot of my fics in first person Lois b/c I like getting in her head, it's fun b/c I know the show so well and know her character so well that I can think the way she thinks. It may seem a little whacked, but I just enjoy it so much and don't think I could write any other way now. There was part of my long fic where I had to do the first person of more than one character but that was a short part and there was a reason behind it.

I remember the book To Die For, which the movie was based on, each chapter was a different persons pov on the events unfolding. I found it so different and unique, which is why I do enjoy a lot of first person novels and such, I feel more with the character.

I just want the writer to present to us their best work. Typos I can overlook, even on the archive, because I know that a few of my fics had some typos slip through even after the GE went over it, so what can you really do? I would just like writers to give us the best they can. If they have problems with spelling or grammar, they should get interested in learning about ways to improve. Read a book on the subject, take a class, join an online writer's group, find a fellow writer who's big on linguistics and ask for tips. Don't just be lazy and figure no one will notice or care... and continual ignorance is no excuse because there's plenty of info. out there. Of course when we write fast and mostly write for ourselves, anything goes. Everyone makes mistakes in early drafts. But what appears on the archive should be as polished as possible.

One of my favorite things to see is improvement from a particular writer over a time period of several years. It shows they really are working at improving their craft, which is a big blessing to the readers, of course.

I'd certainly agree here. I've been a notoriously bad speller since primary school. When pc spellcheckers came on the market I blessed the little cotton socks of its inventer. These days, it's even easier to get it right, with simple guides to grammar and punctuation only a mouse click away.

And I agree too on the blossoming writer. I know from conversations I've had over the years that few things impress an Archive GE or beta more than a writer who takes note of the mistakes they made first time around and doesn't repeat them the second time. Even if you start off from a rocky point, learning and growing will always earn you kudos and respect.

I know it wasn't the point of this poll, but I feel the need to point out something which is related and which is, I think, the cause of a lot of problems and confusion among new writers.

It's not mandatory that you care about presentation and format when you post a story here. ** Some writers just write for the sheer fun of it and don't want to put the effort into making sure the spelling is right or the grammar etc is correct. And that is a perfectly valid reason for writing. You're having fun with it and don't give a toss - go, you! Keep on writing and keep on having fun.

Where the problem kicks in, I think, is when such an author also expects to get lots of glowing fdk for their story or to win awards for it. Because it just isn't going to happen. As readers have made clear here - their attention requires at least a basic standard of presentation to be maintained.

Basically, you can't have your cake and eat it. If you just want to have fun, keep on doing that. But just be aware that it might limit your readership. If you want to write for the fdk or the awards, then try to ensure that your story is at the very least spellchecked, contains paras and watch those tenses! <G> Readers will forgive a whole passel of sins, especially if you're a new author just starting out, but those basics will gain you more readers.

Really, the choice is the writer's.

LabRat

** Note that this liberalism doesn't apply to the Fanfic Archive. <g> There we maintain the highest standard of presentation possible and our GEs are expected only to be 'polishing up' a story which has been all but beaten to death by the author and/or their beta before it's submitted - and the majority of errors already fixed.

Provided that the person knows how to use it.

Provided the person knows how to use a spellchecker, Kitty? I thought most, if not all, word processors on the market came with them included these days. I know all the programs I've used are pretty straight-forward ... you write your document, you select the spell checker, it highlights words that might be wrong and gives you suggestions for what the correct word might be.

I personally don't like to use the "check as you go" feature that beeps at me whenever I mistype a word because I tend to catch those mistakes as I type anyway and the beep distracts me when I'm already backspacing, but I know many others find them very helpful.

It's a sign of the times, though, that kids are learning computers in elementary school and that includes how to spell check. My daughter is 9 and in the 4th grade and she not only types her school reports and fiction stories, but she knows how to put together a full Power Point presentation!

(You could have knocked me over with a feather when she came out of her room a few weeks ago, having had her father scan in all her photos from a recent trip to Chicago with her aunt, and showed me a long Power Point she'd created, complete with humorous and informative captions for the dozens of photos! "Where did you learn how to do this??" I asked. "In school last year, Mom!" Amazing. )

Now I just need to get her to continue with the touch-typing lessons they started her on at the end of 3rd grade. That should be mandatory for all kids, I think! So vital these days.

Kathy (who also has "good but not perfect" preferences for MB posted stories because I, too, consider the MB to be a second level of beta-reading. And no, no one can catch *every* mistake on Archived stories, but having read stories in several otehr fandoms, I can say that our overall quality is outstanding. )

Hey Kathy - are you working in Word, by any chance? Because I think there's an option within the Spellchecker to turn off the "beep". Potential spelling issues are still underlined, but then you at least don't have that very annoying noise to contend with. Heck, if I had that on, my computer would sound like an entire flock of birds <g>. What I turned off the second I started writing - the stupid grammar/style check option. Gads!

Lynn

Good to know, Lynn, thanks! And agreed about the grammar/style checker. Majorly annoying.

Kathy

My voting seemed to be within the popular swing of things.