Dear Wendy, Rat, and anyone else reading this,
I hope that my previous post was not taken by anyone as "emotive" or "hostile"; it was meant to be a calm entry into a debate that I admit has had its emotional side in the past. Like this post, it is merely my attempt to put forward one side of the argument and express my feelings and reservations about the various proposed solutions to the problem. In particular, no-one should feel that I am attacking them personally, even if I disagree with what they have to say; any perceived hostility is not intended to be there, and is an artefact of the limited level of communication available through an MB like this one.
Truth be told, I do not care that much about TEs; if people want to write them and read them, and even give AltKerths for them, good luck to them all! Enjoy, and remember that, in the words of Chief Vitalstatistix, "The only thing we have to fear is the sky falling on our heads!" (or, in the case of a typical TE,
Prometheus, Nightfall, massed nuclear arsenals and/or a dead Superman...
) The important point is that I don't want to read them, and at present I am not being given the choice!
It seems to me that this debate will not and cannot get anywhere as long as one fundamental principle is insisted on by the pro-TE lobby, namely that the "surprise" of a UTE is paramount and must never be spoiled by a warning. Since that very surprise is the real thing that I object to, I can hardly be expected to be sympathetic to that argument!
[A note: I refer to myself, both above and below, but I'm in no way egotistical enough to insist that my wants and concerns are the be-all and end-all of the matter (I'm not Lex Luthor; considering what I regularly do to the guy in fics, I'm hardly going to imitate him! ). I do, however, consider my attitude to this matter to be representative of those FoLCs who, like me, object to UTEs, so pardon the seeming monomania, okay?] This, however, is clearly a non-starter, since it's barely any different from putting an advance warning in the header. It spoils the surprise for those who want to be surprised. While, appreciating that you want to avoid being surprised, Phil - and trying to ensure that there's a way to give you that is the purpose of this poll and suggestion - there are other povs that also need to be catered to, here.
With that in mind, comments such as this one do not seem to me to advance the debate any, because they continue to insist on the stumbling block of the whole discussion -- that it doesn't matter what happens so long as the "surprise" of a UTE is protected. I'm afraid that I find Rat's mention of "other povs" rather ironic, because, as far as I can tell, only one pov is being given any weight -- namely that the "surprise" is everything, and those who object to it are of lesser importance than those who love it!
[I pause at this point to reiterate that no-one, and especially not our favourite Rat, should take offence at what I say here. This is intended to be a calm, rational discussion, and I have no intention of slinging mud, flaming or whatever; it is possible to agree to disagree, and I know many FoLCs do disagree with me on this -- doesn't mean we can't still be friends, I hope.]Why do I say "lesser importance"? Because all the solutions require non-TE-fans to actively seek to avoid TEs: we must wait a few hours before reading the boards so that the author of a UTE will have time to change the thread title after the "joke" is sprung on its victims; or check a warning thread (or folder!) every time we visit the board to see who's playing the joke today; or whatever method is adopted. There is no mention of TE fans having to do
anything for our convenience, so I find talk of a "compromise" rather disturbing because there is nothing of the sort. I could draw an analogy with certain political processes here, but that would
really make people mad...
To use a different (and doubtful?) analogy, it's like smoking. I don't smoke, and I don't like the smell of smoke; if others want to smoke, that's their choice, but
I don't want to breathe in their smoke. A smoking "compromise" along the same lines as the suprise-is-paramount TE fans insist on would leave me with no choice in the matter -- the smokers put the smoke in the air and I have to live with it, or avoid it, regardless of how much effort that may take.
Later, Rat said regarding my suggestion of a prominent Warning thread:
I'm not sure why TE fans would object [...] So where is the spoiler? Am I missing something?
Perhaps. My feeling that TE fans would object to my proposal is based on that same unwavering principle -- that the "surprise" should not be spoiled -- that is causing the debate. The very existence of a TE Warning thread and whatever method of indicating a new entry in it is employed can be taken as a spoiler: while I might say, "Oh, good, a TE warning -- let's see whose post I don't have to bother reading," a TE fan's reaction might be, "Oh, there's a new TE post -- must be X's new chapter. Oh, blast, now it's not a surprise!" See the problem?
To be honest, I repeat that I'm not sure that there is a solution because of this basic sticking point, which puts us all in an unfortunate position. Nonetheless, I will continue to push for all TEs to be labelled as such, with no exceptions, because all that is lost that way is the surprise factor, and that "joke", IMO, is old, tired and tedious beyond belief.
Phil
PS. While I was writing this, Annette commented on my earier post, and I'd like to respond.
First, Annette, I'm not asking for TEs to be
gone (though I wouldn't miss them if they were); I just want them
labelled -- identified as what they are. And, frankly, I consider my wishes no less acceptable than the view that the surprise element of a UTE is more important than any other point in this debate -- which is the underlying principle behind the pro-TE argument.
Secondly, I don't quite understand what the point you're trying to make as regards updating a TE Warning thread -- I know all of what you say; that's why I made the suggestion. The passage you quote is simply my expectation that TE fans might object to the idea, which I consider could be a logical extension of the surprise-is-all-important argument. Note that I don't accuse anyone of objecting in this manner -- yet.