It has been said that women make beautiful and attractive corpses, but men make better story vehicles. This might explain why it seems very satisfying to write stories about women who die and men who keep on living. And seeing that the popular LnC subgenre, death-of-Lois fics, has reared its beautifully melancholy head again, I thought I'd offer you some true death-of-women stories to serve as inspiration for those who want to have fun writing this kind of fic! Okay, here are some links:

Woman dies of bird flu

Woman died riding Disneyland ride

Woman dies of rabies

Woman plunges to her death from a plane

Woman dies as Range Rover crashes into train station where she worked

Clock ticks for death row woman

Woman killed by drinking too much water

My computer is so slow for some reason, so I'll refrain from digging up more links. But perhaps I've managed to inspire you to write your own death-of-Lois fic anyway!

Ann

Wow, what a depressive topic Ann!

I see no sense at all in writing death fics and I seriously hope that no one will have Lois die from rabies. Besides, since there is a vaccination I would kill Clark if he lets Lois anywhere near the dangerous zones without it.

Though a German poet said: "Death is the mildest form of living, eternal love's masterpiece"

I'd rather like Lois and Clark living ever after. Please, let them alive!

Personally, I think that if a character (man or woman) dies in a story because it's part of the story and the story wouldn't be right if the character didn't die, then it's perfectly okay.

I don't, however, condone writing stories just so the writer can kill/punish/otherwise abuse a certain character.

What's the difference? Hmmm . . . how to explain something that's not really quantifiable, but more of a slider-scale in my head? Okay, two examples:

1) In one of the fandoms I used to be active in (the very first I was truly active in, in fact), I once came across a fanfic where the main character (another strong, female type like Lois) was brutally raped and beaten, and the characters who did it (most likely gary stus) kept saying things like, "Take that," or "it's just what you deserve." I HATE this kind of story.

2) However, sometimes, a writer might wonder, "what would happen to character X (how would he/she react, live, etc) if character Y died/had to go away suddenly/etc? I have no problem with that type of fic--it helps the writer to expand his or her talents and characterization skills.

Or, the writer might be doing what he/she does when the story comes to a certain point. They try to get the character out of a bad situation, but either that character can't get out of it themselves or no one is able to get there to help them in time.

Should the writer just STOP writing because he/she knows that the character is going to have to die? Absolutely not!

Does this mean that the writer hates the character? I highly doubt it.

Does it mean that the writer will enjoy writing the death of that character? I doubt that too--writers (or at least me) tend to get very attached to their characters, and it might even break their hearts a little to have to see them go, but they do it anyway, so that the story can come to its full potential.

I really don't think that having a character die in a story like the ones we have posted here has anything to do with having fun writing death fic.

And I definitely have not seen anything even close to resembling the first type of fic I mentioned on these boards, on the archive, or even at Annesplace, and for that, I'm grateful!

I have to say that I can't remember the last story I read where Lois dies. It seems to me that, if anything, FoLC writers are all about killing Clark--or at least pretending to. TOGOM rewrite anyone?

So I'm a little puzzled as to where exactly I might find all these dead-Lois stories.

Then again, perhaps this post was meant to actually spur writers to kill Lois more often!

What brought this up, exactly, Ann? We've had this discussion several times before, and it's been a frustrating effort. Honestly, I think the problem's more in your *perception* of the world (and fanfic) than the thing itself. Calling this a "popular" sub-genre is quite a stretch. It's your right to see it any way you like, of course, and I know you've had some bad experiences -- but if you could try to avoid projecting those attitudes and your anger onto *us*, I know I for one would appreciate it.

PJ

....

You really know how to beat a dead horse, Ann.

But, Hell I'm game if someone is interested In writing some more death fics.

Rach

You mean like this:



or this:



or even this:






LabRat

ROTFLMFAO!!!!!

Those smilies cracked me up.

Oh god! Lab, Now I have to take those. <eg>

Rach

Okay, this is probably stupid, but... when has that ever stopped me?

What about Enterprise? The series was approaching its end. The people in charge did a viewer poll to find out who the most popular character was. The fans picked a pretty likable guy. So, in order to make the series finale more emotional and dramatic... They killed him off.

And, while you're randomly and inexplicably pulling out random links about people dying in strange ways, why are you ignoring all the men who have died recently, for whatever reason?

Thanks for expressing my sentiments so nicely PJ. On a not so nice note, I'd like to add that I find any any attempt to censure artistic creativity utterly and completely abominable . The fact that, as far as I'm aware no one recently has (a)posted a Lois deathfic in the first place or (b)gone without a WHAM is beside the point next to the intolerance revealed by this bad-natured post.

I sincerely hope no one takes pays any attention to it. That type of thinking breeds an environment of hostility that I want no part of.

That said, it makes me very grateful for our friendly mods and the open members of this community who don't attempt to censure writers. But my sympathies like with the writers most of all who write what they feel no matter what. Keep writing, guys. I for one will definitely keep reading.

Sincerely ,
alcyone

Honestly, it's threads like this that really turn people, myself included, off writing.

A couple of years ago, some student actually did die here from water intoxination

It was a student who was getting his initiation for a students' union. They kind of exaggerate those things around here - I've seen things like people only being allowed to use the toilet once per day, eat once per day and have to do hard physical work all at the same time, for up to three weeks (that's not all too healthy..). So, anyway, this guy only had to take some sort of quiz, and had to drink a glass of water for every wrong answer. Well, you get the picture, he drank 5 litres in half an hour, and he died...

I assume Ann's post was in response to DJ's "Quiet Regret." Of course, Ann, you might not be aware of the context of that fic (which is an inbetweenie showing Clark's reaction in DTOSC when he thought Lois was dead--which she wasn't), since you've said repeatedly that you haven't watched much of the show.

Honestly, I'm tired of this topic, Ann. Like others have said, this has been discussed before. If you don't like deathfic, don't read it. Others do enjoy it and like writing it, and that's their prerogative.

P.S. I'm now sorely tempted to go and write a Lois deathfic. I'm childish that way.

In which case, this thread might be relevant. I moved it to Fic Related, because it is, but it might just be related to this thread, too...

A new C_A fic? Oooh, pretty please.

Ann, I saw the "Sorry!" thread in Fanfic-Related and appreciated that you apologized for wrongly assuming that DJ's story was a deathfic. But, at least as far as I'm concerned, your belief is no excuse for having started this particular thread in the first place.

To me, the essence of your post says "Well, since you insist on writing Lois deathfics, let me show some new and imaginative ways to kill her off." At best, that's total sarcasm; at worst, utter rudeness, in my opinion.

You persist in calling death-of-Lois fics a popular subgenre, yet you can present absolutely no facts to back up that statement. Perhaps because these stories disturb you (and others, you're certainly not alone out there) to your inner core, that makes them stand out above many of the others and makes you believe that they're pervading L&Cdom.

Kathy

Instead of going on about this and telling Ann over and over again that you don't agree with her, why can't we just "forgive and forget"? She's apologized for this and I don't see why we still have to be replying to this topic... Everyone makes mistakes...

Actually, Selinde, Ann hasn't apologized about this thread at all. She apologized, in a different thread, only for believing that DJ's story was a deathfic.

Yes, we are covering old ground again, Ann as much as the rest of us. She starts a new post complaining about deathfics, and people respond. At this point I don't care if she apologizes for having started this thread in the first place - I'm just hoping that she won't start a new one the next time a deathfic story is actually posted.

Kathy

I've just caught up with this thread, although I had read Ann's initial post when she first posted yesterday. Have to say, having now read the other posts I'm dismayed by the meanness running through many of them.

Perhaps it would have been better had Dave not moved Ann's apology to fanfic related and thus it would be seen as being more connected to Ann's initial post rather than leaving Ann's comment here isolated?

Just a thought.

I'm sure that she will, I just don't think she'd realized that people would feel so offended by it. Notifying her is about it ok, but one or two responses would have been enough for her to get the picture.

I agree. I thought this was supposed to be a folcdom just having a gay ol' time talking/reading/writing/vidding/whatevering about L&C. I see no point in arguing about this.

Selinde, this debate has been ongoing for months now. Ann knows perfectly well how people feel about this subject. It's been discussed, and we have to agree to disagree here. People have a right to their opinion, and even to express that. But forcing your opinion on to other is a whole other matter, as I feel is happening here. I'm pretty sure, seeing the reactions here, that I am not alone there.

Now that I heartely agree with! We all came here to have some fun and enjoy ourselves, let's all get back to that.

Saskia

Yes, indeed! Once that had happened it became overkill, and therein lay the meanness.

Hopefully these mbs do truly respect the right to state an opinion. It may be that this issue has been dealt with over the last couple of years. (god, or whoever knows it has!) but just as it is ok for a writer to post a warning free fic, hopefully it is also okay for a reader to express her personal reaction.

Saskia, as Admin moderator of this forum, are you closing it now? That's maybe a good idea, but hopefully we can all agree that we each have a right to express an opinion; although, of course, over-the-topness (hyperbole!) and overkill is each another matter. (that is so grammatically incorrect !)

Love, Peace, and Tolerance. (I know, tacky deja vu, but still...

c. (who is grumpy after spending a day organizing income tax receipts - now there's a topic about which too much meanness is not even remotely possible.)

You would think so, wouldn't you? But apparently not, as this is about the third or fourth time Ann has started this type of topic.

We're all perfectly happy for Ann to have whatever opinion she likes. But she needs to realize that once *she* has said it once or twice, that might be enough for the rest of us to get the picture, and that she should maybe not start up the discussion again.

And it was started in a particularly obnoxious way this time, too.

Some of us find our patience running thin.

PJ

Carol, I was not trying to be mean, although I admit that I was perhaps not as tactful as I usually strive to be when posting. I truly don't think I stepped over the line with my comments, but if you and others think that, then I do apologize for offending you.

Ann is a grown woman. She feels very strongly about her beliefs and is not afraid to defend them. She seems to have the belief that there are any number of authors in this fandom who really want to kill Lois off. Fine, let her believe that - but don't expect me to change my mind and believe that too just because she says so. She has deliberately opened this topic line and then walked away from it - if she intends to say nothing more about it that's fine with me; I'm perfectly willing to be quiet now too.

Kathy

EDIT: I see that I have echoed some of Pam's post just above me, and I apologize for retreading old ground.

One good thing about this - at least I'm increasing my post count. Almost up to Features Writer!

To clarify a few things:

I moved the thread, not Dave. (So don't blame him if you're not happy about it.)

I moved it because it was clearly related to a fic on these boards, and thus, in no uncertain terms, belonged in Fic Related.

I almost moved this thread when I first saw it, since it seemed like it was probably fic related, but it wasn't clear. It depends on what you think it's mainly about. If something can fit either way, I leave it where the original poster decided to put it.

I considered it again when I moved the second thread, but I like moving established threads even less, since that means more people are expecting it to be here. It's also even less clear what the thread is actually about at this point.

So... I compromised by posting the link here. Probably should have done that earlier.

It wasn't done to intentionally weaken Ann's position or whatever.

It has gotten harsher than I would like, but I have to admit that Ann has pressed this issue past the point of most people's patience more than once.

Saskia is neither a boards admin nor one of the moderators of this forum.

I am a forum mod, and I, for one, don't like to close a thread without very good reason. Things seem to be settling down here, and there's even room for them to move in a more positive direction.

Exactly.

Paul

Sorry, Paul. It's just that you guys look so alike. I do sympathize with the dilemma you were facing, though. Also, my apologies to both Saskia and you for getting your status (stati?) mixed up.

I've tried so hard to avoid stating my opinion here, other than to observe that when I see so many people jumping on one person, I'm uncomfortable. Once a couple of people had posted, Ann got the message - her apology shows that. Posts excoriating her after that were gratuitous.

c.

I've chosen to delete my response.

No problem, Carol. I wasn't offended or whatever (just in case that wasn't clear). Just wanted things to be straight.

As for the content of the majority of posts in this thread (including the first one), it seems to me that a good mantra for everyone would be "think before you post."

It's something to consider before you go adding your voice to a thread like this. I know how it feels to have seemingly everyone posting against you.

It's also something to consider before starting a thread so provocatively. Some would argue that, at this point, it's just as gratuitous. Not that that's an excuse to harangue her, but it does make the reaction more understandable.

As for Ann's apology... some would disagree (and have done so), but I'll leave it at that.

I don't want Ann to feel unwelcome. She's made some good contributions to the community. But this is an issue which has repeatedly been debated to the point where everyone involved got more than a little frustrated over it. As evidenced both by the tone of Ann's opening post here and the large-scale reaction it provoked.

In a situation like this, it's more important than ever to think before you post.

Paul

Well said, Paul.

c.

I think this thread has come to a good ending. No more pulling one another's hair off, no more sledge hammers / axes / machine-guns involved Just one last thing I feel I should say before leaving this thread and hopping off to the happier topics (FANFIC! VIDS! YAY ); I apologize if I offended/upset anyone in any way. From now on, I'll take Paul's advise and think before I post (and think about penguins.. :rolleyes: )

So, count to ten before hitting the "Add Reply" button..