Woohoo! I'm back! I love this thread! Be back shortly
[Edited] Okay, I'm back now. I didn't have a chance to pop back in here while I was in Maryland with Anna, Jill, and Laura, but I'm glad to be back
Scrolling to see what everyone has said... And my brother is "helping" me out, so you'll see his comments too. I take no responsibility for what he says.
Paul, glad you saw/enjoyed the movie
At this point, what I have the hardest time believing is the end of Return of the Jedi. He converts back, and is (immediately) accepted amongst the ghosts of the Jedi? That's a bit much for me. Padme thought there's good in him still, but Padme thought a lot of things (or, come to that, not very many...).
Lol. I was more bothered by the idea that Padme was the first to originate the "there's still good in him" idea. Like it somehow cheapens the fact that Luke comes up with it himself. Have I mentioned I don't like Padme? <g>
As for him being reaccepted by Obi-Wan and Yoda, I guess holding a grudge isn't really the Jedi way. (Ian says, "Nobody cares about kids anyways! I mean, face it, they're Jedi kids, so one of their parents had to be a Jedi, so when Anakin killed off the Jedi parent he was saving the other parent from having to be a single working mother or father! I mean, really, all he was really doing was saving Coruscant's economy. And second of all, that little kid was annoying!")
Is less than 20 years really enough time for the entire galaxy to accept Palpatine's rule? For him to convert everything into a ruthless Empire? I guess it's possible, but it seems a bit of a stretch to me.
In part I think Palpatine had already taken over. That's what made it so easy for him to introduce the idea of the Empire-- because they were already at that point in everything but name. (Ian says, "Did you see Pulp Fiction? He took out Samuel L. Jackson! That man's fierce! Besides, Vader has that cool breathing-thingy. If you heard that in your room in the middle of the night, you'd flip out, you know it. And Vader did all those after-school specials about how it's cool to be in the Empire.")
Why couldn't they sense the danger and defend themselves or escape or something?
Yeah... I assume it's because they
were trusted soldiers. The Jedi weren't looking for danger from that direction. And in the middle of a battle, which it looked like most of them were (?), a generic sense of danger is probably so commonplace that they're used to it, and automatically assume it's coming from some enemy. (Ian says, "First of all, most of those Jedi had met Threepio. And if you'd met Threepio, you'd have a strong hatred for droids too. Because of their hatred for the droids, they were using the dark side without realizing it, which made them stronger because it's easier. Second of all, they couldn't sense anything from the clones because clones don't have souls. If you're a clone and you're reading this, you shouldn't be offended because soulless creatures can't feel things.")
Chewie and... Wedge? Or was that Wedge's father? Seems like you couldn't turn around without walking into someone from the next trillogy.
I was a little disappointed with Chewie's cameo, since it was so heavily advertised and then turned out to be so small. I did like the idea that Yoda was friends with him
. Also, for what it's worth, that wasn't a relation of Wedge's, it was a young Captain Antilles from ANH, who is the commanding officer on the Tantive when Vader captures it (the one that gets strangled, iirc). Apparently Antilles is the equivalent of Smith in the SW universe
. (Ian says, "This film is about the creation of an evil empire. If we look at what we've learned from the evil empires created in our own world (aka Disney), we learn that it's a small world after all. [...] I wonder if that makes Dreamworks Animation the Rebel Alliance?")
Oh, does anyone know... that barren moon where everyone was gathering... Was that Yavin?
I don't remember a barren moon. But Yavin IV (the one in ANH) is a jungle moon, so probably not. (Ian says, "Hey, that moon prefers 'fertilly challenged.'")
A timely and firm (yet still somewhat subtle) reminder that Obi Wan trained Anakin, that they have the same style, and that he knows Anakin's moves better than anyone.
That's what kills me about this movie more than anything. This incredible bond between Obi-Wan and Anakin, all the years of their history together, and Anakin's complete betrayal of that. Obi-Wan's supposed to kill him for the greater good, but how do you kill your son/brother/best friend?
How come Vader immediately sensed that Luke was his son, but never recognized Leia?
(Ian says, "Her last name wasn't Skywalker. And come on, did Anakin ever seem that smart to you?")
Seriously, though, I'm not sure Vader was certain Luke was his son. During the battle in ANH, Vader can sense Luke's power, but not that he's his son. Afterwards, when he learned Luke's name, he probably suspected, but as far as he knew Padme's baby died with her. In the scene with the Emperor, Palpatine says, "I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker." Anakin responds, "How is that possible?"
Also, Tatooine is full of names like Skywalker and Darklighter, and Anakin and his mother were slaves, so he has no idea what other family he may have had.
And, as everyone else has said, he had no reason to suspect Padme had borne twins. And Leia never did anything to make him suspect her.
Did I correctly understand from Palpatine's explanation that his mentor (whom he'd killed) was the one responsible for Anakin's birth?
This is absolutely what I believe, and I've heard a number of fans make the same assumption. So it's probably going to become fanon, if not verified canon.
Another possibility is that the idea was just sloshing around in Lucas's head and hadn't been fully developed yet, so Lucas hadn't yet worked out the whole storyline. But if he's had outlines of the whole nine movies from the beginning, that probably isn't the real reason.
I'm not really convinced he had the whole thing worked out, but I do think he knew Luke and Leia were siblings. Otherwise the Bespin telepathy scene makes no sense at all. As for "the other," I've read that in the years between TESB and RotJ, many fans postulated Han was secretly a Jedi. What an interesting story that would have made...
thing I am interested in, romance, was really lacking in the movies.
Oh, Laura, let me point you towards some of the Han/Leia fanfic out there
Basically, the books are officially licensed fanfic. Lucas's companies get a cut of the sales, but they don't consider themselves in any way bound to the stories.
The prequel books have been written in the last few years and, as far as I know, been pretty much scripted by Lucasfilm itself. So they should fit with the prequel movies very closely.
In the post-RotJ books, Lucasfilm selects the authors and gets final approval over the storylines. I think the New Jedi Order series, released in the last few years, was even more heavily controlled by Lucasfilm. While there are some details that conflict with the movies (although some of them, I think, could be argued, but that's another thread
), they are generally consistent about major things and try to tell a consistent story. Some are obviously better than others (I'd highly recommend anything by Timothy Zahn, for instance), and because they were written by so many people there are a lot of plots that don't seem to fit with the overall scheme of things.
Most of the fans consider the novels "secondary canon." That is, anything in the novels is true unless directly contradicted by the movies. And while Lucas himself doesn't seem too concerned with matching their storylines, the author of the RotS novelization, for instance, went to a some trouble to explain elements of the movie in such a way that they might not conflict with elements of the book universe. (Ian says, "If you'll remember and include the credits, the movie starts off with writing and ends with writing, as do the books.")
Okay, that's all from me.
Time to post before this giant storm kills the power!
Kaylle (and Ian)