Lois & Clark Forums
Posted By: Kaethel The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 09:56 AM
What a lovely vignette, Lynn! I was enthralled from start to finish, and you recreated the S1 atmosphere so well that I felt I was actually watching an episode. thumbsup

And can I just say I *love* it that you just hinted at something more at the end instead of giving them the kiss they both wanted so much. Fantastic! smile

Kaethel smile
Posted By: LabRat Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 10:02 AM
Ahhhh, Lynn. <happy sigh> I loved this cute, funny, sensual little glimpse into a moment in Lois and Clark's lives. The banter – actually the dialogue in general – echoed scenes I've seen on the show perfectly. It's little renderings like this that remind me why I love this show and that I've been away from watching episodes way too long.

Quote
“And it’s not hard to be courageous when you’re invulnerable. It’s no big deal.”
I loved this line because it's something I've often thought myself. One of my favourite scenes in LNC is when a powerless Clark is fighting off the muggers in the alley. He gets cut and you see the shock on his face as he suddenly realizes he's not invulnerable any more – and then he goes back into the fray again. That makes him ten times more courageous in my book than anything he does knowing he can't be hurt. This line captured that thought perfectly. Plus, you know, well anything that praises firefighters gets my vote. laugh

The waterfight was really cute, loved her teasing mood and his disbelief that she started it. Also, very very steamy.

Quote
She wanted to follow those drips, crawl inside where it was warm and safe...
Did it suddenly get warm in here? /me fans herself rapidly. Caught my breath as she waited for him to kiss her and felt her disappointment when he didn’t. The seeds of something sewn – beautifully WAFFy.

And did chuckle over the little bit at the end where she shows some charitable thought after all. <g>

I think it's a very good idea to post these Merriweather stories here on the mbs – if only to reward me for currently having the spare time to read them and offer feedback. goofy

LabRat smile
Posted By: Anonymous Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 10:08 AM
Lynn, you have this awesome knack for making Clark growly at just the right moment drool . <please excuse silly giggles> growly growly growly Clark!!!

Well Done!! goofy

TEEEEEEEJ
Posted By: Artemis Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 10:28 AM
Just great, Lynn! Very funny! And very sexy! I'm glad she donated at the end!
cool
Artemis
Posted By: gerry Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 11:18 AM
Cute story, Lynn. What gets me is your way with details. First in the dialogue that I won't bother quoting since I'd repeat the whole story.

Then what gets me is the little things that could slip by, but give so much character.

Quote
Time to change the subject. Except what should she say? Sorry? She never admitted she was sorry. He wouldn’t know what hit him.
Absolutely. Clark would be soooo surprised.

And then...
Quote
The cold water hit her leg and flooded her shoe.
Quote
Clark eyed the damage, his arms spread wide with disbelief.
In both cases, the detail gives a very vivid picture without over describing. Little things, like just mentioning that Lois's blouse is silk. Enough to give us a picture.

Loved it, Lynn hail hail

gerry
Posted By: SJH Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 11:33 AM
Ahh, a peace offering,and nicely done.
Wonderful!! Just the thing I needed sitting here at work to occupy my time wink .

- Laura laugh
Posted By: Laurach Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 12:30 PM
Oh very nice little story. I like a wet Clark<g> Laura
Posted By: Supes1fan Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 12:39 PM
Oooo hot, wet and slippery..mmmmmmmmm oops is this the nFic folder?? wink devil

Great job..so what else is new? laugh

~Liz
Posted By: IreneD Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 12:54 PM
Lovely, Lynn. You perfectly captured the S1 tension where Lois and Clark would suddenly have a moment of connection, only to have one or the other of them break away, thereby dispelling the tension.

Good job!

Irene smile
Really, really good thumbsup Great. Fantastic. Excellent!!

Keep it up!
See ya,
AnnaBtG. smile
Posted By: Wendymr Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 01:36 PM
Wow! I've been away most of the afternoon and just came back to find this on the boards. After the fanfic drought we've had lately (with the exception of Nan, to whom I owe comments) it's wonderful to find a new Lynn story. smile

This is so cute! It's funny, witty, subtly sexy and so typically S1 Lois and Clark. I could hear their voices and see their expressions throughout. The banter is perfect - as ever, Clark gives as good as he gets. I could just imagine Lois turning the car around, and Clark's droll comment about her being willing to kill him for a car-wash! Plus the description here had me catching my breath, and then the rest of what I quote below had me laughing out loud:

Quote
Clark eyed the damage, his arms spread wide with disbelief. When he looked up, Lois’s breath caught in her throat. His dark eyes glittered with something she’d never seen before, his mouth held in a careful line. The corners twitched dangerously.

As he came around the Jeep, anticipation shivered down her spine. “Now, Clark – ”

“Give me that,” he growled, advancing like a panther.

“You believe me, don’t you? It was just an accident?”

Still he came, the twitching at the corners of his mouth increasing.

“Kent, you wouldn’t dare! This is silk – ”

Like lightning he wrenched the hose out of her grip. He showed no mercy, droplets raining down on both of them.
Fun water-fight - and I love your description of a wet Clark. wink No kiss... aww, but, as others have said, the promise of more is there.

Thanks for posting this, Lynn! I think it deserved at least a Highly Commended too. thumbsup And I hope we get to see any other stories written specially for the Merriwethers.


Wendy smile
Posted By: JazzyC Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/14/05 04:20 PM
That was wonderful lynn! hyper

When she sprayed him with the hose I thought for a moment that he was going to have the Suit on underneath and then....there might be trouble!

devil
Posted By: TriciaW Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/15/05 01:14 AM
Lynn

WOW! This is wonderful. smile1 I love it.

Tricia cool
Posted By: ccmalo Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/15/05 02:53 AM
Enjoyed it very much, Lynn - felt like I was watching an out-take from the show. smile did like all the water and how it sprayed and dripped. smile Very smoothly written, like the water sliding down Clark's..... <g>

c.
Posted By: Hazel Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/15/05 04:13 AM
Very, very nice, Lynn! So perfectly in character for both Lois and Clark in S1, when Lois doesn't dare admit she's right -- at least not in words wink -- and Clark is perfectly willing to give as good as he gets. Lois blithely washing her own car so it can be "for free" -- and then the softy inside her giving the kids a twenty! smile And the water fight was just perfect. I admit I was a wee bit disappointed we didn't have a Carol Moncado/Phil Atcliffe moment when the soaking wet shirt allowed Lois to see through to the big S right underneath... but the ending *you* gave us was just fine, too. smile

Do we get to see your score card?

Hazel, waiting to get her own score card so she can post it
Posted By: Karla Kent Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/15/05 03:03 PM
very nice little stoty

Karla
Posted By: lynnm Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/15/05 05:06 PM
Thank you all, so much, for the kind feedback! I have to tell you, this was a difficult story for me to write because I had to keep my word count so low. I got to around 1,800 words and could not figure out how to get down to 1,500 - it already seemed so skimpy! I do have the original, more verbose version which I will send to the archive because it just feels richer IMO.

Actually, Hazel, for the most part my scores for this story were not very high. Low scores in the Characterization section indicate that the four judges felt my portrayal of this S1 Lois and Clark were not in-line with what they expected. One judge said “I did not care for Lois’ characterization at all. She was too b**chy and uptight. Clark came across as wimpy and uptight.” Another judge, however, was kind enough to offer some positive feedback: "This is very good characterization of both Lois and Clark. I particularly like the way the author shows that Lois is pushy instead of telling the reader so." smile

This overall dis-satisfaction seemed to carry across the board as indicated in all of the scores from at least two of the judges. Setting was another area in which I didn't do so well, nor did I do well in Dialogue. I won't even discuss my showing in Mechanics and Pacing. Yikes!

One judge did seem to like the story as a whole (the same one who like the characterization), so I was happy to see some average and slightly above average scores sprinkled amongst the poorer ones (gotta have some motivation to keep trying *g*). Even so, I'm not sure if I'm the type of writer who will do well in Merriweather-type competitions if this first showing is any indication.

Here's how I scored (and no, I have no shame in exposing my bad report card wink ).

For those of you unfamiliar with the scoring system, each story is rated on 8 different criteria using a scale of 1 through 5:
5 = Outstanding
4 = Above average; Minor adjustments needed
3 = Average; Off to a good start
2 = Below average; Major revisions needed
1 = Poor quality; Needs lots of work

Each segment consists of anywhere from 1 to 10 questions for consideration, leading to a maximum (and ostensibly, a mimimum) possible score for each section based on the ranking system above. So, for example, Section 2 contains three questions for consideration for a minimum possible score of 3 (lowest ranking of 1 X 3 questions for consideration) up to 15 (highest ranking of 5 X 3 questions for consideration).

With that understanding, here's how I scored:

Section 1 - Opening Hook Two questions for consideration, min. 2 pts/max 10 pts.
Judge 1 - 6 pts
Judge 2 - 6 pts
Judge 3 - 10 pts (WooHoo! I was excited by this one smile )
Judge 4 - 8 pts

Section 2 - Characterization Three questions for consideration, min. 3 pts/max 15 pts.
Judge 1 - 2 pts. (apparently I received at least one 0 ranking to reach below the min. possible!)
Judge 2 - 2 pts. (same here with the 0 ranking)
Judge 3 - 5 pts.
Judge 4 - 4 pts.

Section 3 - Plot Three questions for consideration, min. 3 pts/max 15 pts.
Judge 1 - 10 pts.
Judge 2 - 3 pts. [to my defense, 1,500 words doesn't afford a lot to develop a plot wink ]
Judge 3 - 9 pts.
Judge 4 - 10 pts.

Section 4 - Setting Three questions for consideration, min. 3 pts/max 15 pts.
Judge 1 - 5 pts.
Judge 2 - 4 pts.
Judge 3 - 5 pts.
Judge 4 - 5 pts.

Section 5- Dialogue Four questions for consideration, min. 4 pts/max 20 pts.
Judge 1 - 7 pts.
Judge 2 - 8 pts.
Judge 3 - 10 pts.
Judge 4 - 10 pts.

Section 6 - Style Two questions for consideration, min. 2 pts/max 10 pts.
Judge 1 - 5 pts.
Judge 2 - 3 pts.
Judge 3 - 5 pts.
Judge 4 - 5 pts.

Section 7 Mechanics and Pacing Ten questions for consideration, min. 10 pts/max 50 pts.
Judge 1 - 18 pts.
Judge 2 - 10 pts. [Bummer - another lowest possible score!]
Judge 3 - 16 pts.
Judge 4 - 18 pts.

Section 8- Point Of View Three questions for consideration, min. 3 pts/max 15 pts.
Judge 1 - 4 pts.
Judge 2 - 7 pts.
Judge 3 - 10 pts.
Judge 4 - 10 pts.

Out of a total possible of 600 points, I got a total of 240 pts.

So, as you can see by my mostly below-average and poor-quality scores, my story didn't sit well with two out of the four judges with one of the other judges being unimpressed at best. From a story-writing perspective, I failed miserably. In fact, one judge (I'm guessing Judge #2) said "The whole piece just doesn’t make sense and was not appealing at all to me. My favorite fanfic genre is the vignette, but this was too vague." Unfortunately since the judging is anonymous, I'm not able to ask questions such as what I might need to change to make the story more agreeable. Unfortunately, too, it seems that my Word document did not transfer well for one of the judges, all my ellipses converted to periods which resulted in further downgrading. frown

However, one judge did offer some very nice comments which made the negative a lot easier to bear. smile I'm going to focus on this positive feedback and not be discouraged.

And all of this feedback from you readers is really what matters most to me, so I'm thankful to have it. smile smile

Now, I've confessed to my poor showing!! Where are the rest of you with your fun vignettes??! Part of this posting is to inspire you all to share, but aside from the winning stories, I haven't seen any more. Come on, hand 'em over. wink

Lynn
Posted By: RL Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/15/05 11:46 PM
Wow, that was harsh grading! I know I loved this story. It makes me think three or four times about ever submitting something for any literary contest. I got into writing because I thought it was fun.

Even though it was a very short story, it got me going in a different direction. I thought Lois was going to be utterly thoughtless about the charitable aspect of the car wash, but you redeemed her right at the very end.

Like Hazel, I was also expecting a revelation as Lois sees the S outlined behind his wet shirt.

As for characterizations, I thought both were spot on for mid-season 1. The near-miss on the kiss was classic. smile
Posted By: Wendymr Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/16/05 07:45 AM
Lynn, that's fascinating! Thanks for being good enough to show us your scorecard; I'm not sure I'd have wanted to bare my poor results like this. I might actually have wanted to crawl into a corner and hide - and I'm not a newbie writer! Maybe the judges are kinder with new writers?

The comments you quoted really interested me, because they're such a good demonstration of how tastes in fanfic can be so different - and subjective - between different people. You might love a fic I hate, and vice versa.

Quote
One judge said “I did not care for Lois’ characterization at all. She was too b**chy and uptight. Clark came across as wimpy and uptight.”
Um... did s/he read the same story I and everyone else who's posted here did? confused I am seriously baffled by this!

On the other hand, there's this:
Quote
Another judge, however, was kind enough to offer some positive feedback: "This is very good characterization of both Lois and Clark. I particularly like the way the author shows that Lois is pushy instead of telling the reader so."
Absolutely - I agree entirely. smile

I guess this is what makes judging literary contests of any kind incredibly difficult. I've read a few accounts by Booker judges, for example, describing huge disagreements on the shortlist. Books one judge adored don't even make it to the longlist. Books some judges hate make it onto the shortlist. I think now I understand the long delay between the submission deadline and the announcement of results - these comments suggest that there might have been some fun discussions among the panel! wink


Wendy smile
Posted By: lynnm Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/16/05 08:54 AM
Too, what my results have made me think about is the different approaches I can see that judges might take in assigning point values.

One approach, I'm guessing, is to compare the story submitted with the entire spectrum of writing. A judge would read my story and ask him/herself the appropriate questions and assign rankings using all written works as his/her baseline. So, for example, my dialogue would be compared with every writer out there, from Shakespeare to Tom Clancy. In such a case, I can very well see how my story would receive very low scores, overall poor-ratings and the like. The bar has been set very high, indeed, and I would guess the majority of writers would fall well below average.

What is discouraging about this, however, is that very few of us will ever reach the levels of the great writers, thus we are doomed to always receive failing rankings. There is not much encouragement to enter any contest at all if the hope of showing well is completely non-existent. I already know that I'm no Shakespeare and don't need a contest to tell me that. wink

The other approach, I would imagine, is judging a story by comparing it to other stories within the scope of the very specific genre only. So my story would be compared against only other LnC fanfic stories. In such a case, low scores like mine would indicate a failure to provide a story that amply fits into the genre.

Problem here is that unless we are shown examples of stories that receive even average rankings (because after this showing, I'll be lucky to ever reach "average"), we have no idea of what constitutes outstanding. Yes, we've been told who the winners are. But did those winners have scores much closer to the 600 point maximum than I did? How am I to know what story would receive a 600 pt. award - something I would aspire to - if I don't know the scores of the winning stories? There is no bar for me to reach for, per se.

I would be interested to know under which method the Merriweather judges operate. If my work is being compared to Shakespeare, I have a lot to live up to. wink

Lynn
Posted By: KathyM Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/16/05 08:56 AM
Lynn, I really enjoyed this story. I personally thought it fit well into S.1 continuity as far as characterization goes. I liked the little moments where Lois feels a twinge of dismay or regret at perceiving that she'd hurt Clark's feelings, but she wasn't going to apologize. I thought that was quite typical. Like Labby, I loved the reference to courage and invulnerability, and I too immediately thought of the scene in JSN where he dove back into the fray without his powers.

Now, as to the score sheet... Let me add my voice to thank you for posting your results. It made for very interesting reading as I've tried to fathom what the judges did or didn't like - and for the most part I've come up empty...

First, responding to Wendy's comment:

Quote
Maybe the judges are kinder with new writers?
I haven't gone back and reviewed the rules since they were first posted, but I believe that the judges were supposed to be judging each story without knowing the author's identity. This was one reason why we were concerned about allowing previously "published" stories to be entered, since a judge might recognize it as being written by Author X and then possibly being influenced based on his/her relationship with Author X. Since Lynn submitted a brand-new story, no one would know whether she was a new author or not...

Characterization seems to be the big bugaboo here. Again. Well, as I keep repeating myself, since viewing characterization is highly subjective, you can certainly have stories where 10 people say "this is the best S.1 Lois I've ever seen" and another 10 people say "no way, I thought Lois was written completely OOC". And no single side is right. Each person is just judging the Lois in this story based on the Lois that they have in their heads from their own interpretations of the L&C episodes.

I found it curious that 2 of the judges gave you a 0 in that category, Lynn. There doesn't seem to be an allowance for that. Since the descriptor for 1 point was "Poor quality; Needs lots of work" (harsh words, those, but then again the judges are there to critique the stories, not put a bright happy face on it), are they saying that the characterizations in your story are below that?

And although I'm glad to see that a judge commented specifically that he/she liked your characterizations of L&C (since I liked them too smile ), this didn't seem to be reflected in the scoring from any of the judges. Even the highest rank in that category was low compared to the maximum - if that judge felt that it was indeed "very good" characterization, why wasn't his/her score higher?

I remember when the original discussion about the Awards came up, Sheila mentioned that someone had panned an entry she had made to a writing contest/competition. She then wrote to the judge through the gatekeeper, seeking clarification on how to improve it, and the judge shed her anonymity and corresponded with Sheila on what she had felt were the weak points. I'm not saying that would happen here (probably not), but it might be worth a try if you're curious.

And as to this comment
Quote
My favorite fanfic genre is the vignette, but this was too vague
well, if that's almost all that was written, that disturbs me. If the judge didn't like the story, that's fine. But I would think he/she, as a judge, has the responsibility to tell you specifically what he/she didn't like - and why - outside of the bare numbers for each topic of consideration. I assume that he/she did, otherwise a statement like that is just too "vague".

Lynn, I'd like to thank you again for sharing both your story (which I enjoyed very much) and your score sheet with us. And since you did not perform well in the judges' views, I think it took real courage for you to put your scores out there in the open, since you are not invulnerable...

Kathy
Posted By: lynnm Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/16/05 10:16 AM
Kathy - I assume my story was given to the judges with my name removed and therefore I was anonymous. There was a number at the top of my scorecard, so I'm guessing that's how I was known.

As for feedback, I found the questions asked on the scorecard to be very promising for providing some extensive feedback. I did receive a nice mix of positive as well as negative commentary, but nothing that I feel would help me write a better story, per se, in that it lacked specificity. Some of what the judges said makes very good sense since I did feel that the brevity of the story left some areas vague (such as at the end with the money or when Lois "almost" kissed Clark). This stuff I plan to fix before sending to archive by adding back some of the stuff I cut to make word-count.

Here are my comments (since I've already bared my soul) verbatim. Since my e-mail added breaks that might not be accurate, I might have broken the remarks in wrong places but I don't think it construes the meaning at all:

What did you especially like or dislike about the hero/heroine or both?

“I did not care for Lois’ characterization at all. She was too bitchy and uptight. Clark came across as wimpy and uptight.”

"Lois is TOO pushy and Clark is TOO wimpy. Their normal character has been exaggerated."

"This is very good characterization of both Lois and Clark. I particularly like the way the author shows that Lois is pushy instead of telling the reader so."

What are two areas you felt were well done?

“The plot was well laid out and the setting immediately established. There was no confusion about what was going on and where it was all taking place."

"Great dialogue!"

"This is a great original idea. A small slice of the day told with a lot of humor that proves a great story can be free of villains or excessive cuddling. The author could have spared a short sentence to show the kid’s reactions so the reader is not wondering about this all through the story. Is the unspoken question at the end intentional? (Did Lois give the kid the $20 or the $1?)"

"The very active descriptions of Lois’ driving and of the water fight are successful at setting the scene without boring exposé of what the surrounding environment looks like. The author demonstrates a very good use of voice for “showing” the setting instead of “telling“ the setting."

What are two areas you felt needed work? Tell why and make suggestions.

“Characterization was the only problem I had with this vignette."

"The whole piece just doesn’t make sense and was not appealing at all to me. My favorite fanfic genre is the vignette, but this was too vague."

"The author very effectively shows the action with the senses instead of telling the story. The constant use of active voice keeps the story crisp and fun to read."

"While sentence fragments are fine in dialogue to mimic speech patterns, there are fragments in the introspection that need to be fixed. The author also has a strange punctuation error (period used instead of a comma in the middle of a sentence) that shows up several times and is very distracting – Punctuation:"

{Sidebar here - I think this last remark was in reference to the conversion of my elipses into periods which *would* look very strange in the middle of a sentence.}

What, if anything, seemed clichéd to you? (Plot,characterization, dialogue, etc.)

"Nothing."

“Overall I liked the setting and plot of this vignette."

"I did not care for the characterization but everything else was superior."

Anything else?

"There is great dialogue to show the byplay between Lois and Clark. The fragmented sentences are acceptable since this accurately depicts speech pattern. Lois’ dismissive style is clearly confirmed by her choice of words. The author effectively manages the use (or absence) of quote tags."

"Remember to keep your characters likeable."

"The writer’s dialogue and pacing are great."

"This was a fun vignette to read."

What I liked best about this entry.

"Great opening hook."

***

Okay, you know what? After reading through this commentary very carefully, I'm wondering if I haven't made some sort of misinterpretation error as to the way things are scored. Because the feedback offers some very nice comments that are not reflected at all in the scores as they are presented (example: word "superior" being used but not reflected in any way by more than one highest ranking score). If that is the case, perhaps some clarification by the M-Comm will help me understand the scoring system better.

I was both pleased and disappointed by the comments in that I wish the negative ones had been a bit more specific.

Lynn
Posted By: lynnm Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/17/05 07:51 AM
Okay, I'm breathing a bit easier. wink Over in the Merriweather Scores and Comments thread, we've received explanation that the total possible points awarded is actual half of what was posted on the Merriweather website. So instead of a total of 600 total possible points, the actual total possible points is only 300.

Huge difference in the interpretation of my scores with that new bit of information. I was glad to hear that because something just wasn't jiving right, and now I understand why. smile

Lynn
Posted By: daneel Re: The Nuns' Retirement Fund - Comments - 03/20/05 05:53 AM
Cute vignette smile

Jose hyper
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