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#65970 09/07/09 03:11 AM
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Kerth
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FDK here.

Thanks smile

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Great part ! It is interesting to see Lois and Kal try to understand each other !
But it is strange to see Kal so unemotional ! It's weird, people who don't have emotions : love, sadness, laugh.

Waiting for the suite !

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Lois is so very different from the New Kryptonians that the inevitable cultural collision is going to upset a lot of very big applecarts. Kal is already feeling the effects, even if he can't figure out what's going on.

I think that Kal is going to visit Zara - probably unannounced - and ask her some questions she won't be able to answer. She'll become alarmed at Kal's "mental instability" and alert at least one of the three high nobles, probably Ching, and tell him that Lord Kal-El is being totally weird. Then Ching will ask Kal what's the funky deal, dude, and then Ching will meet Low-iss and alwo become totally weirded out.

Perfect setup for Nor to start his revolution. Of course, Lois will have contributed something to the solution of their infrastructure problems by then, maybe by helping them find water or use some geothermal energy (or something equally foreign to them) to help to heat the colony. And Nor will then have ammunition to accuse her of being a witch or something equally absurd.

Of course, you'll probably take it in a completely different (and more interesting) direction.

And I've been thinking about that "we know about Earth but it's uncharted" comment. Just because you know a land mass exists doesn't mean you know what it's like. When the first Caucasians saw what is now New Zealand, they didn't know how beautiful and mountainous it is. They didn't know anything about the flora or the fauna, and they had no idea what kind of fresh water sources might exist. They knew it was there, but it was uncharted. That's how I took Kal's comment about Earth.

Very intriguing story. I like this reversed setup, and the way you're showing Kal rediscovering his emotions is very interesting. I can't wait for him to tell Low-iss that she's the only concubine he has feelings for. Given her history and American culture, that'll go over like a belch in a gas mask.

Next chapter? Soon? Please?


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Oh yeah. Now I'm completely and utterly hooked. Now I would like to speed up time just so I can find out more quickly what comes next. Now I understand why someone would want to crawl through the network and into your computer, just to recover the rest of this story.

I'm afraid I might become addicted to this, to the point where I start checking the boards thirty-seven times a day, on average, for anything new from you.

Can you tell I'm excited? :p

The way Kal reacted to Lois' emotions got me thinking, though. It works beautifully within the context of this story, so on that level I don't have any problems with it - at all.

And yet, I can't help but wonder if reality would actually be that way. If Kryptonian society is truly as devoid of emotion as Kal's behavior makes one suspect it is, then Kryptonian mothers probably never smile at their babies, or socially interact with them very much at all - which means the developing neural pathways of Kryptonian babies would never actually be 'wired' to instinctively respond one way or another to emotions shown to them by others.

I guess the tell-tale signs of physical attraction - like Kal's heart rythm speeding up in Lois' presence - might still be there, because those are more the result of an evolutionary process than of one-on-one interaction between human (or in this case, Kryptonian) beings. But I don't know that I can be convinced that Kal would also instinctively know the difference between 'good moisture' and 'bad moisture' - and that a smile is a good thing.

Given how good this story is shaping up to be, though, I'm more than willing to suspend my disbelief here - I've done that in the past, in the face of things far more outrageous than this, and I'm certainly willing to do it now.

So... Keep them coming, please! Hurry up already!


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Excellent part, FH. I, too, am hooked on this story.

First, I am now happy to admit that Kal is now officially smitten. Even though he has no concept of what that means. Yet. laugh

Like all of us, I was struck by the utter alienness of Kal's experience. I'm going to disagree with Pendendang on one point, though: human babies don't learn to smile from their parents. It's an inborn human reaction. Of course we can't ask the babies how they learned to smile, but facial expressions, unlike other bodily signs like waving, pointing, or even nodding, are absolutely universal. That's what leads scientists to conclude that they are hard-wired.

So, as I was reading about this world in which Kal has never seen a smile and doesn't automatically smile back at Lois, my thought was that he is truly not human. All humans smile and laugh and cry, and they don't need to be taught how. So, either the fandom theories about Kryptonians being a form of human are wrong, or his society is so harsh that every bit of emotion has been suppressed. I'm not sure which would be a more difficult cross-cultural obstacle to overcome.


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I'm going to agree with Cookiesmom and disagree with Happygirl. Personally, I believe that children smile because they learn to do it, because their parents are so happy and pleased when they do. Babies are enormously interested in communication, and if they find that smiling will trigger a huge respone in their parents, they will quickly learn to do it more and more often. As they grow older, they will learn when it is appropriate to smile and laugh, and doing it in the proper situations will become natural to them.

Yes, I think that all peoples belonging to all known cultures all over the world do smile. But I still believe that smiling is something we learn to do when we communicate with other people. Which is to say, if we grew up with people who didn't smile, would we learn to do it? Would we do it as a way of communicating? To show joy or pleasure? I'm not sure. Then again, you have to wonder how much joy and pleasure a culture would allow if the people belonging to this culture didn't smile.

There are stories about "feral children", children who have been abandoned not only by their parents but by human society, and these children have been raised by wolves. Do such children smile? I'm not sure. You can argue that such children aren't human, because they haven't learnt to act and react like a human.

[Linked Image]

Kal isn't a "feral child", of course, but he may indeed belong to a culture that doesn't teach its people how to smile to communicate. Kal may not know smiling because no one in his society has ever smiled as a way of communicating. But if Kal is indeed human, then he should be able to respond to real smiling and real laughing once he encounters it.

I loved how Lois and Kal were communicating and responding to each other in spite of everything. It makes me wonder what would happen if Lois's translator breaks down. You know what? I think she and Kal will find a way to communicate anyway.

This in an engrossing fic, Corinna.

Ann

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I am thinking that Kryptonians are like Vulcans. Vulcans have emotions, but they are taught from a very young age to supress them.

It sounds like Kal does have emotions. He can't understand what is happening to him when Lois smiles or laughs, but it's obvious that something is going on inside of him.


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@ HappyGirl:

IIRC, one currently prevalent theory among neuro-psychologists is that the brains of newborn human babies contain so-called 'mirror neurons'. These should cause them to automatically imitate facial expressions presented to them by their mothers, among other thigns. So in that sense, yes, human baby brains are 'hard-wired' to be especially receptive to those.

However... (couldn't you just sense that one coming? :p )

Babies typically start smiling within a few weeks after birth, but the first social smile (in which they smile deliberately, and in direct response to some external event, like their mother talking to them) is usually delayed until the end of the third month or so. Which means, I think, we're both right to some extent:

No, humans don't need to be taught how to physically smile, or laugh, and certainly they don't need to be taught how to cry. It does, however, take some time for them to start attaching meaning (good, bad, or something in between) to the expressions and social behaviors exhibited by the people around them. And in order to get to that stage, they do need a certain amount of interaction with other, emotionally expressive human beings first. I don't think it would be entirely accurate to say that babies are born with some kind of intuitive *knowledge* of what a smile, or a frown, or an angry scowl mean, exactly.

In that sense, I believe it would be safe to say that verbal and non-verbal communication are very similar to each other. Not unlike their innate receptiveness to facial expressions, human babies have certain innate linguistic capabilities -- which is to say, up until the age of six or so, they have the capacity to intuitively pick up any language they are regularly exposed to, or even to create their own language (as shown by the history of some Creol languages, among other things). But in order for them to put those innate abilities to good use, exposure to human language before the age of six is absolutely essential. A human being who never came in contact with any human language as a toddler, mostly loses the capacity to use language at all at a later age. See here for more on this topic.

These children can still learn through imitation, though, so I'd imagine they can indeed learn to smile. They often do loose the ability, however, to bond with another human being in a meaningful and balanced way - which is a disorder often seen in children who were severely neglected during the first months of their life. Ask Wikipedia .

But I digress. Let's get back to discussing part III of 'Awaken my Heart', now smile .


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I was on my way out the door when I wrote my last feedback, and I just had to come back and do this story better justice.

So, some detailed reactions on a second read-through:

- "It was as if something inside him had lifted. As if he could suddenly see a way to warm his people this winter." There you go. Heating problem solved. We'll just gather all the NKers around the warmth of Lois Lane's smile!

- "Another wild, aberrant notion exploded in his brain." See, that's the affect that Lois Lane has on Clark in any universe, even one where he's not Clark.

Which brings up a larger issue in this story: what makes Clark Clark? How much is inborn Kal-El and how much is Jonathan and Martha's influence? Someone on these boards once suggested that the essential thing about Clark Kent is that he is the man who loves Lois Lane. What do we see in this Kal that lets us recognize him as some form of our Clark? So far I'm seeing Clark's selfless concern for the wellbeing of others, his curiosity, his fascination with Lois, his self-discipline. What's missing? His sense of humor, his security in his parent's love, his angsty self-doubt, his feeling of not belonging (Lois has that in spades here, of course).

- The entire scene with Lois eating the cutlery was a hoot. No wonder she's cracking up when she realizes it. Like others have said, you've done an excellent job capturing Kal's consternation and fascination with Lois's emotions. And he makes the perfect straight man, warning her in all seriousness not to bite the glass. laugh I was also struck by the intimacy of the act of sharing not only his food, but his very plate and cutlery with her at the evening meal.

-Thank you, thank you, thank you for letting Lois break down when she comes to grips with the magnitude of her situation. And for letting her accept her current position, at least for now. It might be tempting to send her into Mad Dog Lane mode at the idea of being an inferior and a concubine, but she is doing what she has to do to survive in her current circumstances. I'm sure we'll see some of her old spark once the inevitable conflict starts to arise. I'm betting, though, that it will Mad Dog defending Kal against the other NKers, not Mad Dog against Kal. I think Lois knows that Kal is her ally, and Kal himself is going to adjust his thinking about Lois without much prodding from her. She commands his respect, so she doesn't have to demand it.

- I find it endearing that Kal is putting himself in the awkard position of chatting up Tek. He's so desperate to find a connection with Lois that he's fishing for relationship advice from his underling. And in a delightfully clumsy way. His utter bewilderment with Lois's crying is like Mars meets Venus to the nth degree. Is that how earth men feel when women get emotional? wink

Kal does have some instinctual understanding of facial expressions. We can tell by his gut feeling that smiling is good and crying is bad, that laughing is the best, and even that raised eyebrows mean surprise.

And the ending lines were perfect.

Oh, and one more thing this Kal has: Clark's courage. Interacting with Lois Lane has got to be one of the scariest things Kal has ever done, if only because he has zero idea what to do or what to expect. But he's going to do it anyway, because she's worth it. (Oh, and to help his people, too. Yeah, that's why. It's his duty. Really.)

Can't wait for part 4!


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A new part of this story was exactly what I needed today, thank you!

I love the interaction between Kal and Lois. You've done an excellent job bringing out the "alienness" of each culture to the other.

Looking forward to more!

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Corrina, the amount of well thought through FDK you're getting is scary. Really, here I am, thinking this is another awesome part but it's still late and my mind won't come up with really good FDK peep

The few things I do manage:
- The Translator-bit got resolved nicely smile
- The cutlery was hilarious.
- The lack of emotions. This one's really interesting. Especially if you add in Lord Nor and the obvious implication that he's a greedy, manipulative megalomaniac with an unhealthy sex-drive. I'm looking forward to how you're going to resolve the society that managed to breed out the social emotions and only leave the anti-social stuff behind. Especially, since the Kryptonians only left a far more habitable world for this bland existence only a generation ago. Something must have gone terribly wrong with their gene-pool. Either that, or Kal really is an inmate in a dystopian asylum.

Michael, really missing the days when you posted daily spider


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One more thing about Kal's reaction to Lois's smiling and laughing (and crying). Maybe the translator translates some of Lois's emotions, too? Maybe that is why Kal finds Lois's smile and laugh so extraordinary, because it does translate some of the emotions involved and triggers some emotional response in Kal?

And of course this works so well because it is Lois who smiles and laughs. Like Happygirl pointed out, the essence of Clark (and therefore, part of the essence of Kal) is that he loves Lois. (Actually, I think it was Rac who said it here just recently, even though I'm sure that others have said it here before.) Because Clark (and Kal) is "genetically programmed" to respond to Lois, her emotions have an enormous impact on him.

(Oh, and... Lord Nor. frown Not much looking forward to seeing a lot more of him....)

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I have to comment on whether or not Kal and the other NKers are human. Well, Corinna, you have already said that your fic is science fiction, and that means that anything is allowed! smile Well, pretty much. So if you want your Kal not to be human, you won't hear any protests from me! smile

Realistically, however, if a being looks perfectly human, if its body is indistinguishable from a body of a certified human, then this "new specimen" is human, too. Isn't it you Americans who say, "It walks like a duck, it swims like a duck, it quacks like a duck, it is a duck"? Well, I think that if someone looks, moves, and metabolizes exactly like a human, and communicates pretty much like other humans, then it is a human. (Unless it is a shape-shifter.)

[Linked Image]

Human being with fake ears (or an ear mutation). Big deal. At the very least, Mr Spock would have to be as similar to a human as a mule is to a horse or a donkey, since he is the offspring of two beings who must, therefore, be at least as similar to each other as a horse is to a donkey. Otherwise they wouldn't be able to produce offspring together.

[Linked Image]

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/me hijacks this feedback thread in order to point out that TOC's three posts here have made her a Nobel Peace Prize Winner.

party party party

Hail the laureate!


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But that's the question, Ann. Is smiling as essential to human-ness as walking or talking?

As has been mentioned, we know that Kal has emotions. He just doesn't know how to recognize them in himself or in others. So I'm leaning more toward the ruthlessly suppressed option. And we all know Lois is going to un-supress them. laugh Something tells me that Kal will be smiling by the end of this story.


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Well I did say that if you asked questions and offered answers, I would learn a lot!!

Starting generally ...

RE - whether a baby's smile is innate ... the discussion was fascinating. Probably moreso for me because I know why Kal doesn't smile. evil

RE - whether Kal is human or not - another fascinating discussion - and one I'm staying right out of.

Except for ... what Happy Girl said about which of Clark's characteristics can be found in Kal ... she summed it up perfectly.

I will add this - there is another of Clark's traits that could be added to the list - something else, absolutely fundamental, that he shares with Kal.

Annalina Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you're enjoying it.

Terry You don't lack for ideas, do you Terry? smile

Thanks for reading and leaving comments. There will be a few misunderstandings along the way!

Pedendang Thanks for your enthusiasm - the parts will be posted as soon as I can ... unfortunately there is this thing called Real Life ... sigh.

Also thanks for your contribution to the discussions. As I said, I found them fascinating.

Happy Girl I loved your summation of Clark and Kal. Obviously Kal has differences, but I hope the essence of Clark shows though.

Glad you liked the cutlery!

Re - Lois grieving. I was a little concerned that she didn't get to this until Part 3, but decided that everything is so new and so different that it took a little time for her to gain a full appreciation of what she had lost.

I'm glad it worked for you.

Quote
Something tells me that Kal will be smiling by the end of this story.
You got it!!

Ann As always, your FDK is insightful and full of bonus information.

I have explanations for why things are the way they are. Whether those explanations will satisfy ... I guess we'll both have to wait and see. wink

Thanks for all your comments Ann. I'm glad you're still with us.

lcfan99 Thanks for leaving FDK. You make a good point regarding Kal's emotions.

Amber Thanks for your FDK, Amber. I'm glad you're enjoying the fic.

Michael Thanks Michael. Uhmm ... the whole society thing - I might have to think a little more on that.

Quote
Especially if you add in Lord Nor and the obvious implication that he's a greedy, manipulative megalomaniac with an unhealthy sex-drive.
Did *I* say that?? :p


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Originally posted by HappyGirl:
Something tells me that Kal will be smiling by the end of this story.
Yeah... but the question is: Like this?
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SNCR blush

Michael

PS: I forgot to mention: keep Nor away form Lois wildguy


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Heh I don't mean to sound harsh, but I want to see Kal crying by the end of the story, just because tears are such a natural defense mechanism. He must have had them suppressed at such an early age by others...

Anyway, the whole thing is just fascinating!
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Oh, I miss feedback threads like this! This kind of discussion about stories is one of the most wonderful things about FoLCdom and it makes me very happy to see it's still going strong, even after all these years. smile1

As I've done with every part so far, I got to the end and gave an internal whimper of, "Nooo, it can't be over already!" I would gladly stay up all night to read this story. It makes my whole day when I see a new post.

My comments are similar to everyone else's -- I'm fascinated by their conversations and what they're learning about each other, and the cutlery scene was priceless. I literally LOL'ed at Kal's "Don't bite it" when he offered her the glass, as I'm sure everyone did. Very nicely done!

As for the smiling/laughing debate going on in the thread, I'm still working with the theory that the colony hasn't been around that long and that maybe Kal's parents did smile at him when he was a baby, even if he doesn't recall it. Time will tell if I'm anywhere in the ballpark. (Though honestly, it isn't a topic that even glimmered in my mind as I was reading, so I think you're safe as far as changing anything goes. smile )

Oh, and I'm also still working with the theory that Lois is on NK to stay, at least unless she ends up going elsewhere with Kal. The NKers clearly don't know where Earth is, and an Earth space program that is just setting up its first trip to Mars (unsuccessfully, at that) certainly can't mount an expedition to find her. So I think Lois might as well settle in and learn as much as she can about her new home. And personally, I can't wait to find out about it right along with her!

More, please? I'm perfectly willing to grovel.

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Quote
Originally posted by Female Hawk:
Quote
Especially if you add in Lord Nor and the obvious implication that he's a greedy, manipulative megalomaniac with an unhealthy sex-drive.
Did *I* say that?? :p
Well... you mentioned Lord Nor and concubine in the same sentence. The rest was sort of implied :p

Michael


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