Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Superman Related Post-Viewing Discussion: Man of Steel movie (SPOILERS)

*********THIS DISCUSSION WILL HAVE SPOILERS!!!!!*******

If you don't want to read spoilers before you've viewed the movie, *STOP NOW!* Turn back and following the links to Pre-viewing Discussion of the movie.

(I haven't yet seen the movie, I'm just setting this thread up for the future. Just in case.)

Let the begin!

Wow.

So. Wow.

I'm tired. After the movie got out last night at like 3am, I felt the need to discuss it for another two hours with my friend and my brother. So I went to bed at 5:30, and it's only 9:30 now... my eyes are burning.

I've concluded that I need to see it a secnod and third time to decide what I think about it. It was fun, cuz midnight showings always are, especially in big groups.

I found myself laughing a lot. I was nitpicking from the very start, and I hate myself for that, because I always do that at the movies. I hated the actress who played Lara, and I wasn't too keen on Zod at the start... That being said I still LOVED the movie!!

I LOVED Lois. I didn't think I would. I loved that she found out about Clark's secret before he even was Superman. I loved I actually loved how they made the movie solely based on Clark's origins and how they did the flashbacks throughout. And, much to my surprise, I loved Henry Cavill as Superman. There I said it. I din't like him bearded, but when he was just a little scruffy or clean shaven... He did a good job acting, too. I loved Russel Crowe. I actually loved a lot about this movie, more so than I expected. Glad I went to the midnight showing.

I'm too tired to think of anything else.

Movie: Awesome.

Yeah, that blew me away the most. All the other changes were "Well, they've changed X with every re-telling" or "Well, they're just updating Y because it's modern times, now." But having Lois know from the get-go....it felt...different, and yet kind of right. On the one hand, having Lois be fooled by a pair of glasses for at least a day is an integral part of the whole mythos, and has been from the beginning; but on the other hand, Lois is awesome. Of *course* she would/should know. I don't know how to feel about this part, frankly. I'll say one thing, though, it's a lot better than the nonsense of Supes dating wonder woman.

I liked the movie too. I actually liked him in the beard...maybe my motivations as a male were different <g>. I liked the flashbacks to his childhood best, and I liked Amy Adams as Lois. How he'll be as Clark Kent in the Daily Planet I'll reserve judgment. I liked Perry White being played by Lawrence Fishburn.

I *loved* the fact that they used the stuff I'd written about in my story "Control." (Not that they'd read my story, but still...)

I have to admit overall I am although I have to say that Clark is not really Clark if he apparently does not start being a journalist until he is 33.

at having no memory wipe kiss. OK, I didn't think they would, but still they are clearly not going to do it.

I think Lois figuring out that CK=Kal-el before he goes public and before she names him Superman is a good development. Clark being able to pull the wool over others eyes and not show that CK=SM is doable, but when it is someone who is supposedly the best investigative reporter there is, someone who he is friends with and who he interacts with personally with in both guises, it never works.

I also liked how much Lois had important roles to play in the drama.

One issue though is that with Perry and Jenny seeing Lois and Superman kissing, how is Lois going to have a relationship with Clark without developing suspicion.

I also liked how Lois called him Clark right after they were turned over to Zod, but I still thought "Lois, you are supposed to be protecting his secret".

Well, technically in "Smallville" Lois was never fooled by a pair of glasses. Still, Lois did take a while to realize the hero the man were the same there.

I see why they did Lois finding out here. Mainly my points about Clark fooling Lois never being credible. I also think with 50 years of comics until they got to Lois learns the truth, multiple TV shows where Lois never learns the truth, and putting it off a long time even where she did learn it, you almost have to have Lois learn up front for the whole thing to be exciting.

It fit with this Lois and it worked with the plot. This Lois would always push toward knowing the full truth.

I forgot two biggies!

1. Jenny... like Jimmy? Did they really genderbend? And that's awesome.

2. Superman killed Zod. KILLED. I mean, I get that he had to do it, and I'm totally fine with it... but still... I don't know. Superman doesn't kill.

Loved the kiss at the end He's coming...

Though there was a lot of product placement, too. I wouldn't normally let that get to me but one of them was blatantly obvious and then I couldn't stop noticing. Sigh. I miss the days when I could just watch a movie for fun instead of analyzing it to death on first viewing.

CGI was fairly well done. I enjoyed it actually, and that's hard for me to do sometimes in a live action film.

/will be back when more occurs to me/

I only noticed Lexcorp once, when things were exploding, but there was probably a bunch of stuff I missed.

I noticed Lexcorp on the side of a tanker truck in Metropolis and another truck in Smallville. My husband said that the satellite that Superman destroyed said Wayne Industries, too. I like having Lex in the background like that. He doesn't have to be the villain. He can just exist as part of the landscape.

Overall, I liked the movie, but I had some gripes. My three main gripes were Johnathan Kent's death, Zod's death, and the millions of innocent civilians that died needlessly.

I understand Johnathan's reasons for telling Clark not to save him, and I understand Clark listening to him, but the execution was awful. I had thought that he was going back for a kid who was stuck in a car, but he was saving the family dog. Be as much a dog lover as you want, but no person's life is worth losing over a dog. He should have been saving a kid. Then, Clark could easily have run over at human speed and helped his dad to get under the overpass with everyone else. The situation was not extreme enough that it would have required him to out himself. Use the same setup, have Pa Kent save a kid, and have a car or something fall on him such that Clark would have to visibly use his powers in order to save him, and the scene would have been much better.

Zod's death: Well, I guess they're going for Golden Age Supes, 'cause boy did he kill a lot of people in the 30's and 40's. Always throwing gangsters out of tenth floor windows and stuff. But later Superman changed so that he doesn't kill. I have mixed feelings about it, though, because it wasn't just random murder; it was war. Also, Superman ended up executing the Phantom Zone criminals with kryptonite back in the 80's because he ended up with no alternatives, but he anguished over the decision, and he felt sick about it afterwards. Part of my dislike of Zod's death is that I didn't see any reason why they didn't just have Zod sucked back into the Phantom Zone with everyone else. It didn't really further the story in any meaningful way.

That said, I really liked the way Lois came in and held him afterwards. It was touching, and it was a good bonding moment.

Now for the innocent bystander death: In Superman II, Zod and company were throwing Superman and various vehicles around the city, endangering the civilians. What did Superman do? He flew away to somewhere remote to continue the fight in order to spare the bystanders. In Man of Steel, he just continues throwing punches in the middle of IHOP in Smallville. He throws the other Kryptonians through skyscrapers. How many buildings collapsed that day? How many people worked in those buildings? Enough damage had already been done to Metropolis by the world engine; Superman acted like it was his responsibility to finish off the rest of the city by throwing people through buildings or being thrown through buildings himself. He should have taken the fight away from the city.

Oh, my other gripe was that Clark shouldn't have told the military that he grew up in Kansas. How many people live in Kansas? And he told them how long he's been here. It won't take the military long to track down just who he is.

I liked Lois. She didn't back down from anyone. She was determined to find out the truth about Clark based on a lot of vague information. Then she sat on her findings in order to protect him.

I liked Jor-El. He was a scientist with principles who fought to do what was best for his people. He was forward-thinking and a revolutionary. He was very well done.

My son liked the Kryptonian robots that followed Jor-El and Lara around. I think one was called Kalex, but I want to call it Skeets because it reminds me of Booster Gold's little robot that floats around and talks to him.

I liked Clark's answer to Zod about Clark killing Krypton's future: that Krypton had its chance, and it's over.

I liked how Clark used the Kryptonians' weakness against them: that they haven't learned how to filter out all the sounds and how to use their vision powers. He dropped the ball, though, when he told Zod how his mother taught him to focus on one thing to learn to control it. Zod used that trick later.

Clark's reasons for working at the Daily Planet (besides being near Lois) are very Golden Age. He wants somewhere where he can keep appraised of situations where he might be needed and where he can come and go without question. This is quite different from post-Crisis Clark, who just always wanted to be a journalist because he enjoyed it. He gained a lot of joy and satisfaction from doing well in a field where he was on a level playing field with everyone else.

It was a good action/sci-fi movie all around, but in many ways it didn't feel like a Superman movie. It also felt too much like a first movie setting up for a sequel. I don't mind setups for sequels in general, but this felt too much like it was the primary purpose for the movie. I'm hoping that the next one will feel more like a Superman movie because Clark Kent, Daily Planet reporter, will be in it, glasses and all.

So does anyone else agree that this just cries out for an LnC/MoS crossover fic?

Well, I just got back from the theatre. I got there at 6 and the movie started at 6:20 and there were about 5-10 people in the theatre ahead me. It filled up before the start of the film but it wasn't sold out by any means.

I thought the movie was okay. I didn't walk out saying 'that movie rocked!' like I did with Avengers, but it was hands down 200%+ better than Superman Returns. I don't think re-seeing it will make me cringe as rewatching Superman Returns does. It was entertaining, but I knew the story, so not much on the surprise front. A solid "B".

It was some of the minor things that nitpicked me. Clark not being scared over revealing what he could do in front of other people, not being scared that so many people knew by the end that CK=SM, and stating things like "I'm from Kansas" in front of people not in the know. Jor-El taking over the movie. Clark stealing out of the back of the car, didn't like that... even if it was necessary. The fact that everyone called SM the "man in blue" even though the suit wasn't very blue, looked more steel gray to me (*loved* the velvet cape though). That Zod and SM destroyed Metropolis. Zod's comment about it taking them "33 years" to find Earth. Um... Would that be Kryptonian years or Earth years, and how to calculate "years" in space? The comment made by the female army captain(?) about Superman being 'hot'. :rolleyes:

Henry C. made a great Superman. The beard didn't bother me, because it fit who he was at that point in the film. I had no trouble with it. He definitely did well with the conflicted Clark Kent character. Oh, so, very glad he wasn't dark like Bruce (was a bit worried there)! Yea! Conflicted, worried about his mother, wanting to protect people more than himself, friends with Lois from the get-go, and that hating killing Zod, that's our Superman.

Amy Adams (despite the lack of being a brunette) made a good Lois Lane. I like that she broke the rules for a story enough for Perry to punish her. I like that she hunted CK down and found him. I didn't like that it was so easy (it felt like it took less than those two weeks Perry gave her off). If she could find CK so easily, so could someone like Lex Luthor.

I liked the relationship between Clark and Lois. I liked that Lois always called him Clark, except at the army base (although, I didn't like it that she said it in front of the Smallville PD, but since clearly EVERYONE in Smallville knew Clark's secret, except the stupid town bullies, but that didn't really matter because Zod basically destroyed Smallville).

I liked the new retelling of the end of Krypton (better than the boring one at the beginning of Superman:The Movie - yawn), but I didn't like that they kept bringing Jor-El back, and back, and back, and 'let me tell you how to defeat 'em, son'. Enough already! :rolleyes: LnC did it right. Introduce Jor-El to tell Clark his history and THAT's IT! Let Clark figure it out on his own, Dad! Geeze! No wonder Lois is known as the smart one.

Russel Crowe did well as Jor-El, but once he's dead, could he stay dead. Lara was okay, a little whimpy, but she usually is.

I was pleasantly surprised that I liked Kevin Costner and Diane Lane as the Kents. They did an excellent and understated job. This film might be a little traumatic for anyone who has recently lived through a natural disaster.

Perry was underutilized. Come on, you get Lawrence Fishburne to play Perry and then you give him nothing to do, except yell (kind of) at Lois (once) and hold the hand of his intern. Please! Let's hope he does more if they do a sequel.

I kept looking for Jimmy for half the film, then I remembered I heard they switched Jimmy to Jenny, but then they kept showing all these women at the Planet who could be her, so what was the point? She wasn't distinctive enough to pick her up out of a line-up. Jimmy's role is CK's pal and they didn't say two words the whole movie, so I hope a real Jimmy appears later on.

There was a 'Ralph' type character, too, who's name I believe was "Steve?" He was more recognizable as an actual character as opposed to an extra than the "Jenny" character.

I liked the Army colonel (who's name I didn't catch), but I liked that actor from L&O:SVU. And Hamilton makes an appearance as our beloved scientist, too bad he got sucked into the Phantom Zone with Zod's team.

I liked Zod's right hand woman. Very well done. For a second there, when she pulled the Kryptonian dagger out when battling with the colonel, I thought it might be Kryptonite and I kind of hoped the K dagger might make another appearance.

Zod was annoying, but that's his character. He was raised to save Krypton or die trying. Well, isn't that a sad existence once your planet is dead.

I *LOVED* that they used ShayneT's idea in the movie, but I think he should have gotten at least screen credit. Go scientists! Trying something "new". I loved what Clark did to that rude trucker's truck. Brilliant. The glance between SM and Pete Ross as SM and Zod were fighting in Smallville. I liked that. I loved the image of Clark on fire at the oil rig. That was cool imagery. So, was Jonathan Kent's protecting his son's secret with his life. You'd think Clark would honor that sacrifice a bit more by not telling everyone that he's SM. I liked the ending scene with Perry introducing Clark to Lois, but I think he should have put on the glasses BEFORE entering the Planet (again not working on hard on protecting his secret). I loved the LexCorp logo on the gasoline trucks in Metropolis that SM and Zod then blow up. I liked the flashbacks, especially with the young Clark at school. We usually don't get to see how scary it was being him. That worked better than telling everything chronologically.

I did get a bit lost though when directly after the spaceship crashes to Earth, we see the fishing trawler. A "33 years later" would have been nice transition there, on the odd chance there is SOMEONE OUT THERE who doesn't know CK's story. (it's possible, right?)

That the Kryptonian explorers didn't make it at any of their outposts. that Clark learning about his past (interesting that his "Fortress of Solitude" was actually an Kryptonian ship) clued Zod in on where to find him. (Good going there, Jor-El). that Pete Ross bragged that CK is different, even after they became friends. I didn't like that Metropolis is basically flattened by Zod and Superman's battle.

Absolutely HATED that Superman *killed* Zod. True, Zod was about to burn up a family, but -- come on -- how many people died because of the buildings which fell down and Zod and Superman blasted each other through? Plenty more than that one Earth family. True, SM didn't see any of those people die with his own eyes, but still -- they be dead, too. If you really cared about civilian (human) causalities, may I recommend taking your battle to the death with your Dad's arch enemy OUT OF TOWN! At least, Chris Reeve's Superman did that in S2.

Oh, yeah, that kiss between Lois and SM in front of Perry, and Perry doesn't recognize SM as CK? Nah, I don't think so. Too obvious!

That Zod kept using Earth time bothered me, too. Why would he know what 24 hours was? He should have said "one Earth day" or something like that.

As for the army captain or whatever her rank was, I could totally see her comment coming, and it made me cringe. I was expecting her to say it differently, though, more like, "He's very handsome," or "He's totally good-looking." Using the word "hot" made her sound like a teenager.

I had heard that Jimmy was a girl, but I completely forgot about it and assumed that he wasn't in the movie. When I mentioned it to my husband afterwards, he pointed out that that intern was Jenny Olsen. I hope that her cousin/brother Jimmy Olsen shows up later. It's nice that they want more female characters, but making Jimmy a girl completely changes the character's relationship with Superman. You can't have "Superman's Pal Jenny Olsen." If he's paling around with a woman, she would be assumed to be his girlfriend.

I recognized Jenny whenever she appeared, but I didn't really catch her name, and I certainly didn't recognize her as a replacement for Jimmy. I don't think we got enough scenes in the DP to establish what her relationship is with Lois, or anyone else, though.

I was hoping that they would have a regular Jimmy who happens to be cross-dressing for an undercover assignment, though. He did that a lot back in the day. A good example is in All-Star Superman (the comic or the movie).

Steve Lombard is a sports writer for the DP. He's been in the comics since 1973. I've always seen Steve as the prototype for Ralph. I've wondered, actually, why they didn't just use Steve in LnC instead of making up another character. I guess they're not quite the same, though. Ralph has this creepy vibe, but Steve is a jerk jock.

Actually, I was thinking about the fic where our Lois & Clark watch Superman:TMP. Let them watch MOS. Oh, when Lois sees that MOS Lois learned who Superman was before there was even a Superman - learned it in a few days. She would throw a fit. It would be hilarious.

I find the genderbending usually without purpose, but I'm not sure if they did that here or not. Promotional (a book) said Jenny Olsen (or so I read), but someone at SHH posted a screencap where her name tag read "Jenny Jerwich." So I don't know.

Oh, that bugged me. Especially since a small town in Kansas was the first attacked and he gave them his age. Check the high school yearbooks for the right timeframe, and there he is.

Now my thoughts:

I've only seen it once, and I'm a person who likes to watch things multiple times. Sometimes I love something and keep loving it (usually), but sometimes it just falls apart on subsequent viewings, and, on rarer occasions, sometimes I appreciate it a lot more of subsequent viewings. So these are all first impression thoughts.

I knew almost nothing going in - I'd heard that the Kents didn't want him using his powers, saw one trailer on the website, and the teaser trailer. Nothing else - I don't think. I don't even think I knew Zod was going to be the villain. I almost didn't see the movie because I have firm opinions about what the Kents should be, and I didn't like what I was hearing.

I enjoyed the movie a lot. I did not think it perfect or amazing. But I did like it.

I loved how Lois tracked him down so quickly. I like what it says about her investigative skills. I love that we saw that she was an amazing investigative reporter. I liked how they talked and how she knew he wouldn't stop helping and said she'd be able to find him that way. It was lovely. A mention of him always having to come back to visit mom would have been nice, but given the themes of this particular movie, I could say it might have been awkward - distracted from the point being made about his heroism. I liked her followup of dropping it. I liked this Perry - he didn't shout and he's ...quieter, I guess, than some Perrys. Both when he refused the original story and when he knew she was lying about her leads, he just kept his calm, said it like it was and such.

I love Lois knowing early. So there aren't jokes on her lack of knowledge that make her look stupid. And she's really part of the action, so that's great.

I did enjoy Jor-El and Lara more than I usually do. I'm a fan of the Kents, and I felt nothing for Jor-El and Lara in TMP or LNC (did like them in the animated series, though). Jor-El was a bit too good at everything, I'll grant, and Lara didn't do much. But Lara had gravitas about her, despite that, and seemed a strongish sort for some reason. It was very interesting how they were never going to go with Kal-El. It wasn't the selfishness of making their son an orphan because of not wanting to leave their world (or one not wanting to leave the other, if one parent could have gone), but rather that they believed they were part of the failed order, that the Kryponians could have their bright future and free destinies with them there. I don't necessarily agree - they broke their bounds already by having that child, and I think they could have contributed, been there and still accomplished their goal. But they don't think they could, and that's what matters. I also found under-reacting holo-Jor-El quite amusing.

I was very disappointed in the Kents, particularly Jonathan. I love the idea that Clark is the hero he is because of how they raised him. I know that is by no means a defining characteristic of the Kents across all versions, but it's a version I love. Here, that simply isn't the case. His father says maybe he should let a bus load of kids die?! No, just no. Instead of being a hero because they raised him to help when he could, he's innately heroic, and they try to discourage him from it because of the risk to himself. He's a hero despite of their guidance, not because of it. I will grant it maybe a "do as I say, not as I do" thing because Jonathan stopped to help the other woman with a child. And Jonathan didn't break his own rules, even for his own life. But I still disliked that aspect of the Kents.

Following up on heroic - I liked Clark and the oil rig. People are in danger, and he has to help. I love it. And the workers there might have been a bit discombobulated when the door was ripped off, but they followed him because he upped their chances of getting out alive and getting out alive is exactly what they wanted. Also like how the pilots were like "get that last guy" - nice to see other people caring about saving lives, too. Then he was holding up the thing so they could get out and they saw that and they left. But that wasn't leaving him to die, since he was already doing the impossible.

I liked Supes talking the military folks - him breaking the handcuffs was fun. I enjoyed all the scenes where they were on the spaceship. I'm slightly confused as to why they wanted Lois, though. I'd thought they were going to use her as a bargaining chip against Kal-El, but they never did. Then again, she did escape her cell almost immediately.

But the Smallville action sequence followed by the Metropolis action sequence just went on too long, got too repetitive. I got bored.

But the ending was nice, and Perry and pals saw Lois kiss Superman (well, the alien, they don't know his name yet). And they don't necessarily know he's the hero. He didn't have establishing heroics in-costume in this version, so he not so much a known entity to them. And many people in Smallville must know Clark is the alien. Several incidents in childhood, then they know aliens with powers exist and the battle happens there. And the cop saw Lois call Superman "Clark."

I'd love to see fanfic about how the world perceives Superman right now. I expect Lois will push the heroism as far as Perry will let her. But Zod came to this planet only because of alien, so some people might blame him for just being here. They don't know he's a hero yet. He doesn't have the past actions or the publicity. And some will undoubtedly think of it as just a battle between aliens, not accepting/realizing that the reason for Superman's battle was to save earth and that he lost a chance to bring his people back over it. At least until Lois gets writing (somehow I don't think her three weeks leave without pay is going to stick). I expect the military/government will publicly say "he's on our side" no matter what they actually believe because they don't want to panic people. How much will they want Lois to keep secret - and how bad will they fail at that?


What do you want for the sequel?

I think Lois should be showing him the ropes as a reporter. As far as we know, he neither any training, experience, or education in the field.

I'd really like to avoid the the Lois-wants-him-to-use-his-powers-for-her-story thing. I dislike that idea intensely. Lois is very, very good on her own.

I can't decide if it would be amusing or annoying to have someone else see his lack of experience and wonder how he got the the job.

Obviously follow-up on the subset of the population that rejects Superman, those that might blame him for drawing Zod here, would be good to me. I'm not sure how I want Lex to play in in that. I mean, him using anti-Superman sentiment, even whipping it up further, seems quite feasible to me, given the themes of MOS. But they really gave Zod a motivation, a reason, for his nature, his actions. So what is Lex's reason for what he is doing - why does he hate Superman? What does he gain from destroying him? If they go the scienc-y route with Lex, would the codex in Superman's blood be of use to him?

As for any potential anti-Superman sentiment - I'd like to see that the DP made sure they put out Superman as hero. Because he is, of course. And Lois knows that he gave himself up and how he did this to save them at the expense of his own people being reborn. Not sure how much of that will be publicly available - what would Perry allow to be published? Unlike the beginning of the movie, the public is now willing take seriously anything Lois might write about it. It will be interesting how much the DP shapes pubic opinion on Superman. And how do the other DP staffers feel about him? Of course, this aspect on how soon after MOS a sequel picks up.

I am fervently hoping there is no mindwipe of Lois - and I don't think there will be. But a tiny part of me still worries, given her history. I want to see more of the Lois/Clark dynamic, of them learning more about each other. But we can't see all that, of course, because there's only so much time in a movie. Some of it will have to alluded to or implied. Or have already happened off-screen, between movies. But I'd like to see some, and some of the two of them being reporters - perhaps as a lead-in to a plot-point or action scene. I don't want really-dweeby Clark. I always liked the Clark-as-the-real-guy version. Well, most of the real guy, anyway. That way he can have real relationships, friendships, etc. But, since Lois does know the truth, he can already have that relationship, even if he plays the dork. But it they go that way I so want Clark and Lois to rehearse/try-out some of the dorky bits as a humorous scene.

How does Perry treat Lois in the aspect of her potentially knowing Superman's identify? Does he want to publish it? Or want her to consider it? No, I think he knows she won't (phone conversation in MOS), but how does he feel about it? Think it's just being a responsible journalist? And will we get some implication that he's a smart enough journalist himself that he can put those pieces together and see that it's Clark (but never tip his hand to them)?

Emotional issues over having had to kill are likely to plague Clark. I don't want that to overshadow everything else, but as a recurring theme and part of a larger whole, it could work well.

Lastly, I guess, I want to see how Clark reacts to having a permanent place. It seems he was a traveler before, he didn't forge new connections of any depth. He always had to ready to walk away a moment's notice, as soon as something happened? Now we the issue that he can put a costume and then go back to work afterwards. Does he maybe consider running when something happens? He is using his real name now, and I don't think he was before (he definitely wasn't as "Joe", but Lois' talk about tracking him down indicate he wasn't the other times, either, I think). I don't think running will come up - I think he's past that. But maybe. It's just an interesting thought, how making himself a permanent place might effect his non-Lois, non-Mom relationships.

ETA: Forgot to mention these two bits - I loved Lois and Supes talking when he was handcuffed. He was like "if it makes them feel better..." and I wondered about the handcuff scene with soldier when I saw the promo. Once I saw it and I realized they had no clue he was super strong, it made more sense.

Also - there's a big plot-hole in the movie. It can probably be fanwanked, but there's no explanation given in-movie (that I recall): why did Zod want to make Earth his new Krypton? They can terraform planets, so why not pick one with no life on it? Then Kal-El might have been more agreeable to Zod getting the codex (well, he didn't trust him anyway, but still). Why did it have to be Earth. I mean, I know Earth was closest, but it's such a small inconvenience to go elsewhere and avoid genocide.

Okay, that thing drove me CRAZY! I could not take it seriously and when it cropped up with Lara's face I just kept laughing. It looked like those little toys you stick your hand against and it leaves and impression... shoot, I don't remember what they're called. Anyway, it was neat and cheesey at the same time for me.

100% agreed, Virginia! I think the strongest scene for me was right after he saved Lois from the jettisoned spacecraft and they're getting close and it looks like they're about to kiss, and then there's that moment RIGHT THERE where Clark pulls away and has this look on his face and then takes off... Then when he attacks Zod defending his mother-- that scene was just perfectly done! That's probably one of my favorite parts of all.

Did anybody else expect at least someone in the military to be Gen. Sam Lane? I kept looking for him, but nada.

I think you're right on this for the sequel, Tzgonc. I'd like to see it adressed a little bit more, but I don't want them to do the whole PTSD thing, like with (spoiler) Ironman 3.

My other last thought: As far as I'm aware, they *are* planning on making a sequel, and they *are* planning on using Lex Luthor to some extent or another. Here's some of my issues with that-- Lex Luthor is my favorite Superman villain. I would be ecstatic to see him done right on the big screen. I would squeal and fangirl my little heart out. But I don't know how they would work it. In my mind, he'd have to be a John Shea kind of Lex Luthor, not anything else. Someone Superman can't come right out and attack, just shady and who gives Clark a bad feeling but can't pin anything on. There's so much difficulty in pulling that off though. It's one thing in a tv show, where every episode is kind of different, and it's following a whole arc. That's where they went wrong with the former Superman movies-- Lex Luthor wasn't really a sinister villain, he escaped jail at the start of each next movie, and the only thing he had to rely on was Kryptonite. Which made him an opportunist, not a villain.

But that's kind of the point, I guess. Movies, especially superhero movies, *need* action. Otherwise it ends up like SR and it falls flat. They came out of the gate swinging with Zod and crew in this one-- sequels usually have to be even stronger action-wise to hold up. I don't see how you can make Luthor stronger without the addition of Kryptonite.

Also, how the heck are they ever going to use Kryptonite?! I know the director's gone on record saying some stuff about not wanting to use it, and there was a very obvious lack of it in MoS. My question is that how on earth can you go an entire movie where you see Krypton's explosion, Clark's arrival to Earth, Zod's arrival to Earth, a scout ship from Krypton, and terraforming Earth into Krypton without once ever running into something that, hey, glows green and kinda hurts. And if it is the case that they are going to bring up Kryptonite eventually, how are they going to explain that lack? On the other hand, how do you make a series of Superman movies without even one nod to Kryptonite?? I understand that it's kind of cheesey giving him one weakness, fine, but it's an integral part of Superman's character. The public as a whole has adopted the phrase "my Kryptonite" into the vernacular (mine, btw, happens to be chili cheese fries :p ). You can't not include it.

The only other possibility for Kryptonite that I can think of is the idea that it could have been accidentally formed during the attempted terraforming process. They focused a lot on the differences between Krypton and Earth's atmospheres; perhaps the combination created this substance that is a lethal combination to Kryptonians? Or maybe humans too? I don't know, but it's something that's kind of weighing on my mind.

Agreed. He can't be obvious or a known criminal. I thought perhaps he could be associated with the military or government and influencing persons in power to an anti-Superman POV, maybe creating some problems and attributing them to Superman (like our Lex did with the heat). If he's sciency, he might want access to Clark's blood so engineer super solider or gain immortality/power himself. Others have recommended the idea that he plays philanthropist, contributing a lot to the rebuilding of Metropolis. Possible owns a competing media outlet? I'm curious to if he'll have a reason to be Superman's enemy, given how well (I think) they did with Zod.

That is an extremely intriguing idea.

ETA: I have to admit, the more I think about it, the more I like the idea of LNC watching MOS. Lois would think of the military and their plans about Supes in LNC when the military acted here. Might think about Nor. Clark would react to Zod attacking Martha. And they'd both be really impressed by the special effects. Lois would call reboot, especially after seeing Zod again. Not sure how it'd work with them watching a future made movie, though.

It just dawned on me we learn nothing about Lois's family from the film. Is this unusual for Superman films, or have their been other ones where we did not learn about Lois's family?

On Clark saying he grew up in Kansas, there are 2.8 million people in Kansas. That averages out over 300,000 births a year, probably well over that. Even if they could be sure he had come as an infant, that still would be looking for 1 in 150,000 births. That might give them a head start, but in and of itself would not be enough.

On the other hand, since Lois found him without even having the Kansas lead, it would not be hard for someone else to as well.

I don't really see any reason we would learn anything about Lois' family. So far as I recall (and my memory of III and IV is almost non-existent, and it's been a while since I watch II), the only reference to Lois' family in the four Reeve movies was a one-liner saying her sister had kids, cats and mortgage. And did SR mention any relative except her son?

Yeah, but the first attack was in a small town in Kansas. So starting with that town is logical, and that's a lot fewer people to go through. I am assuming (I don't think we saw) that Clark flew the spaceship to the Colonel in Smallville instead of calling him out to the farm to collect it, of course. It was that ship, wasn't it? Not the artic one?

For once LnC Lois will not have to rip on a movie Lois for totally ignoring Clark. Although this Lois will have even more grounds to say "Well Duh, Clark Kent is Superman" to LnC Lois then Tempus ever did. This Lois dug the fact CK=Kal-el out with total grit and determination, no touches or kisses or looks or vanishing sequences to lead her on.

On the Jenny Olsen thing, I remembered reading the speculation, and I think I clued into the right actress early on, but I have to admit that even half knowing she was rumored to be "Jenny Olsen", I was not convinced until near the end of the show.

I guess the question is, if Lois is 100% in on the secret even before Clark is brought on at the planet, than does Clark need anyone except Lois? Over time Lois has become so much Clark's support and accomplice, that the need for Jimmy has been lessened. In L&C, Jimmy was often more Lois's friend than Clark's.

I think Perry was a much less developed character than he could have been. I would not mind them actually bringing in Jimmy, but Jenny has a place too.