Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion FoLC Productions Music Videos Stolen

I've just been informed of some nefarious behavior over on ebay (like this is a first or anything!?)

A guy who has been selling bootleg DVDs of L&C episodes is now trying to sell a DVD of L&C Music Videos. Which would be one thing if they actually were his, but most of them belong to Andrea Gidusko... he evidently ripped them off her website. I asked him for a full list of the music videos on his DVD, he gave me the names of about 9 of Andrea's videos, as well as one called "The Way" (I'm not familiar with that one; anyone who whose video is getting ripped off here?)

I shudder to think he might even be on these MBs, since Andrea didn't advertise her video site very many places, except for these MBs.

We're obviously seeing some of the worst of human behavior here. I implore you not to buy his DVD. Andrea's videos are all available for free on the Internet, and a few days ago she even asked if anyone would be interested in getting a CD of the videos from her with good quality copies (not the downloaded-off-the-net ones this guy's trying to pass off.) It just sickens me. He doesn't credit her at all, never asked permission... I could go on forever.

I know a lot of you are Music Video/Trailer artists and I'm sure you'd feel horrible if someone took your hard work and tried to make money off it. Whatever you do, do NOT trust this guy or anything he's selling.

Ebay has a complaints procedure for this kind of thing, so it may be worth reporting the auction to them. They can close it down if they feel their rules have been infringed.

LabRat

I tried, they will do nothing because I have no proof they are mine. You know Ebay would rather have a buck then deal with my complaint. I emailed the jerk and he has yet to respond. This happened before, 4 years ago, which is why I stopped making the videos at the time. Not the same person, but someone taking my videos and selling them on a CD, which is why I started selling my own.

The best I can do is ask that any true FoLC not buy anything from this man. So far two people have bid on his bootlegs, which also have my videos as a BONUS. But for now the videos are off my site, until I can find another way to format them making this harder for someone else to do. In the future, my videos will be even lesser quality to make it less desireable to commit this act.

If the person who made the video "The Way" would like to complain to this person as well, I have his/her email addy.

This person has over ten auctions up under two Ebay nicks, but it's very easy to tell they are the same person.

Thank you.

Andrea

Andrea, I can imagine how you must feel. It's a shame that people can steal your videos, make profit out of them, and get away with it because Ebay can't be bothered taking responsibility in the content sold on their website.

LnCroxmysox, thanks for posting the warning; many FoLCs hang out on these boards. At least they will know that this guy is selling stuff that doesn't belong to him at all, and they won't put a bid. It would be pretty ridiculous, especially as you let us download your artwork for free from your website!

I hope you won't let this put you off doing videos, because we all admire your talent for those and want more, more, more from you.

Kaethel

Thanks Kaethal, so many people tell me to contact Ebay, but I know they don't care. This person finally replied but the reply actually upset me more. Stating that so many people contacted him/her b/c they wanted to buy JUST the videos. Well, why couldn't this person contact me saying there some was some demand for the videos on DVD or CD, chosing instead to charge people for work that is not their own.

I offered to make another CD and or DVD but no one was interested so I decided not to. For now I'm working on making one for myself just to practice new ways of doing things. I can trim the static from around the videos and such, stuff like that which happens when you capture sometimes.

I thought there was an unwritten rule in FoLCdom about using other's works for your advantage. Mols said it best, if someone printed out someone elses fanfic and tried to sell it for a profit it would basically be the same exact thing.

Some people, just don't get it.

This person wants to work this out with me, but at the same time wants to continue to profit off my work. I really don't see a true bargaining chip in it, and considering I have years of medical bills to pay off he/she is really my least favorite person right now.

Andrea

Andrea,
I'm so sorry that this happened! Thats terrible! I don't understand how anyone could do that. Thats just plain twisted.

Like Kaethel said I hope you don't stop making videos, yours are some of the best ones! I think thats neat that you can put them on CDs or DVDs! Again I'm really sorry that happened. I hope it works out!

Later Days!
Andie

I'm trying to think of ways to keep stuff like this from happening. Something along the lines of a watermark that could be laid over the clips.

This is dispicable. Always makes me sad to be reminded that there are creeps like this out there in this world.

We could boycott e-bay and send letters telling them in explicit detail - with names and all - why.

Lynn

Because I know this could happen to anyone, knowing that WMVs can be edited again through Windows Movie Maker makes me despise Bill Gates as well. We need a video format that CANNOT be edited, and so far every one I have found can be. I first started putting logos on every frame, but that didn't seem to deter this jerk.

Here is his/her response to my email where I was very upset about finding that videos I spent MONTHS on this person was profiting off of. Not to mention selling illegal sets of DVDs for over 100 bucks a set. I emailed those bidding on them, but don't know if that will accomplish anything.

Sorry if I'm not making sense, I'm just very angry at the acusastions this jerk makes. I find it very hard to believe he/she recieved emails asking for JUST the videos on DVD, when I've offered this numerous times to little or no response. Not to mention I can make them so much better than the quality I put online.

OK well here's his/her asinine response:

********************************************
Hi, Listen I'm really sorry but I think you have got this all mixed up. I am
probably more of a Lois and Clark fan than anyone! All I did was put them on
DVD and I was GIVING it to them along with the Season sets that I've been
selling as a bonus. And then I got so many e-mails about wanting to buy just
the music video's so I put a auction on ebay just for the music video's. If
you are a true Lois and Clark fan like I think you are you put them on the
web for people to download FREE and I am giving them for free and the 1
auction I'm selling I'm doing for the Lois and Clark fans that don't have it
where they can download it or be able to put it on DVD. For someone who
would want that they would have to buy a DVD burner, blank DVD's, DVD
creater software, and labels and cases. I'm just making it where thay can
get this without buying all that. And I never, never said
that they were mine or that I made them! If you want me to put your name on
them or website I would be happy to! Or if you would just really want me to
stop selling them I will, but you are taking it away from the ones that
don't have the abilty to download it or put it on DVD. Now thats not a true
Lois and Clark Fan! Please e-mail me back so we can work this out Thanks!!

**************************************************

Of course never giving his/her REAL name. Sure he/she has mine, probably deleted it out of every video he/she stole.

So basically for now I'm out of the video making business publicly. I will continue to make them for me and a few select friends, but will no longer be on the internet for thieves like this. How sad I need to think this way, so many jerks in this world. I know I may not own the rights to the songs, or the rights to the show, I made the videos for the expierience and for the fans and this person saying I'm not a true fan for being angry with what he's doing just angers me more.

Just wish people would stop bidding on this stuff, then he'd have no reason to continue.

I've made several music videos. Each one took over 12 hours to make, one took over 30. If I got paid for those hours like I do at work, heck, I'd be rolling in cash. It takes a true, dedicated L&C fan to make music videos (or write good fanfic, or make fanfic trailers, etc.). You don't do it for the money (money? What money?), you do it because you love the show, and because you want others to feel that love you have, too. To have this person accuse you of not being a true L&C fan like they think they are is just preposterous. Like you didn't spend hours upon hours working on those, listening to those songs constantly, watching the show for clip ideas, and putting the videos together -- despite numerous software crashes, as video software seems to have a tendency to do. You have a DVD burner, you have the ability to make DVDs just like this guy/girl. You, too, let people see your videos for free. Yet he's the better fan because he... does... nothing, except maliciously "borrow" your hard work??? Yeah, I'm really seeing his/her logic there... except not. You may not own the rights to the songs, but then again, fanfic writers don't own the rights to the L&C characters. And seeing our fanfic get sold on ebay would be awful. I do hope that someday a fool-proof video format can be found, but I think people like this guy/girl will always find a way to take what doesn't belong to them, even if that means they're sitting in front of their computer with a video camera, recording the videos off the screen. Andrea, if you get enough interest re: putting them on DVD, I'll definitely buy one and I have a friend who I know would want one, too. Good luck.

It doesn't matter what kind of lame excuse he is making. He is making a profit period. And using andrea in the process. This is one of the reason's why I almost stopped making videos.I never had my videos sold on ebay..but they were still stolen. It's suppose to be fun, and one of your hobbies. But it's Jerks like that ruin it for people like us.

OOOoo he/she is lucky I don't know the email or the place there at.

Rach

I got your back andrea. And don't stop making the vids. But I do hope you find a way around it.

My last dealings with an idiot.

man how could I forget that I'm a selfish witch! I told the jerk to stop putting my videos for sale, and that making the DVDs and selling them on Ebay inhibits them from ever coming out for real. I could get in a true fight with this person but choose to let him have the final inane word:

*******************************************
Listion all I was doing was trying to help the people that don't have the
abilty to download them, but I see that you don't want them to have it so I
guess they will go without. I'm sure you'll make them real happy. I can't
take them off the auctions I already have on ebay now but I will not put
them on any new auctions. And yes I had 4 e-mails the first day I put it on
and more since then. I'll tell them that you are selfish and only want your
little lois and clark fans to have them that visit your webpage. And incase
you haven't noticed the Lois and Clark tv show was canceled over 7 years ago
so I highly doubt it will ever be out on DVD. I'm helping the real lois and
clark fans. And EVERY copy that I've sold they knew that it was recorded off
tv and put on DVD. And give all those people that you told about me that
think that what I'm doing is heinous give them my e-mail address so I can
tell them the truth unlike what you told them I'm sure and they will
probably buy a copy themselfs. Thanks again

*************************************

So, if you want to know who is behind the DVDs for sale on Ebay, there's a pretty picture.

L&C was cancelled over 7 years ago! OMG I did not know, I thought it was still on, boy do I feel stupid.

And if anyone wants his/her email I would be glad to give it out.

Same twisted logic any plagiarist uses. Whether he's making a profit or giving them away is besides the point. At the very least common good manners would have prompted him into contacting you before he did anything with these videos. The fact that he didn't, says it all really.

As always with plagiarists, I just love the air of wounded innocence and absolute belief that he's done nothing wrong and is just 'misunderstood'. Yeah...right.

And why would anyone in their right mind go to him and buy these videos when we all know where to go to get them for free? It's only because the poor saps on Ebay who are bidding for them aren't aware they're available on the net that they're bidding at all.


Is it possible to contact the bidders on the auction directly, Andrea? I know that there is a rule about contacting bidders and asking them to withdraw, but I think that's to do with bidding tactics, not informing them that they're dealing with a thief who has no right to offer the material in the first place. And of course you can direct them to where they can get the material for free, rather than having to pay for them.

You are on a bit of a sticky wicket over copyright as technically you're using copyrighted material yourself, of course. But I'm not sure how Ebay can claim you can't prove these videos were made by you - surely they were uploaded to your website long before this plagiarist put them up for auction? So wouldn't you have upload dates? And you would have posts to the mbs announcing new videos wouldn't you? They would be dated months - years - before this guy got his hands on them.

Or are they just not interested in proof because they can't be bothered enforcing their own rules?

It may be worth persevering with them though. Through recent arguments with them on several points, I've learned that it generally takes about four or five emails with them arguing X before suddenly they're doing a U turn and agreeing with you.

LabRat

Well I've already taken all the videos down, so upload dates are pointless. And yes, since none of the material I used is my own copyright wise I cannot prove ownership so in a sense I am screwed. I contacted those bidding to inform them what kind of person they were dealing with and received no response. One didn't even make it to the addressee so who know's what is going on there.

Basically for now until I find a format that cannot me manipulated by creeps like this I will not be putting any videos on the net. I know the damage is done, this jerk still has my videos and will probably continue to sell them, but I'm hoping if enough word gets around no one will buy them.


Also as much as I TRIED I couldn't find where on Ebay to complain about this jerk, just for selling the DVDs of L&C alone.

Andrea

That is horrible. That angers me sooo much.

Andrea, please send me this person's email address. I have a few things I'd like to say to him. It may not help, but as a fellow vidder I can't just sit here and watch your work be stolen.

Furthermore, Fade to Black is a great site that explains vid theft and what to do about it. I would *strongly* suggest that you contact them about this issue. They can probably get ebay to shut him down. If nothing else, they can make his life miserable by inundating him with more emails than he could ever imagine.

I know that things like this are awful, but please don't let it keep you from vidding and sharing your vids with those of us who love them, and love you for doing them.

~Anna

EDIT: I did some checking around ebay. Here is ebay's copyright policy , bootleg policy , and unauthorized copies policy (note the second bullet on that last page).

Last but not least, this page has a "contact us" link to report listing violations, but I have a couple of cautions on this one:

1) More than one report of a single violation will slow down Ebay's investigation, so I would ask that no one but Andrea contact them. Andrea, you have to be a registered member on ebay to do this so if you aren't, I'd be happy to do it for you.

2) As Fade to Black explains, no one outside of a fandom (including ebay) really understands vidding and the violation that vidders feel when they are ripped off. Therefore telling ebay that you've had your videos stolen isn't going to get them to do anything about it, as I think you've already noticed. You can, however, report him for violating the Warner Brothers, December 3rd Productions, etc., copyrights, both on the auctions for your vids and for the DVDs.

I hope that info helps.

I didn't know there was a site out there that could be an advocate in this sort of situation, but that's great.

WOW thanks for telling us BanAnna!!!!!!!

That sounds like a great tatic if all else fails -
I hope.

I'm going to make a voodoo doll of that guy. GRRR

Hi, I just came to this discussion but I have some thoughts. I have to say I've been a little worried about using video tape from a copyrighted TV show and putting it with music that I'm SURE is copyrighted. The musician league is very serious about this stuff, wanting to be paid if a performer sings a song in a nightclub in Montana , it wouldn't be a problem.

It seems to me that Ebay would have a policy against selling video tapes of recorded television programs and music that is bootlegged as well.

Maybe we should get the Musicians League after him

I just had to come back in and say one more thing...that I think this is awful! I loved your music videos! And because of him/her we won't be able to see them again...its just sad that they had to take this previllage away from all of us. Your music videos were so incredible, I wish I could at least have half your talent to make them...hopefully one day you'll want to send them out again, and that day will be a great one for me! I'm really sad and upset this had to happen. I hope this person gets whats coming to them!

Later Days!
Andie

what a jerk, Andrea. I just sent u an e-mail. Please do not quit. We just love your videos!!!

I really miss your videos. I had deleted them off my computer a week before this craziness. I wish I never did now. I just assumed they'd be there when I had my issues cleared. Muaaaa!

I just never got to say I loved them! Yours we the first I ever saw...over a year ago. I love the old and new.

Any updates on the dealings with this turd?

SuperRoo,

They're back up now, just streaming instead of the old way to try to keep turds like him from downloading them the way he did then using them for his own advantage. I have to redo one still, but it is up there (logo problem with it)

I'm working on another as I type:) Will have a lot in it though so it's taking a while.

Andrea
http://www.creations.dreamhost.com

Hey Andrea,

Gald to hear your videos are back. I have to admit that you had me feeling a little guilty, though, because I used to include them on CDs I used to make, but I always gave you the credit you deserved. I thought I had asked you for permission as well.

Anyway, if you have a chance, please send your updated links so we can post them on the Music Video site. stories@annesplace.net If you ever need web space, we'll be happy to host them for you as well. We have plenty of space.

*sends some to Kaethel in England*


Edited to change a board member's real name to a nick.

Thanks Anne. I knew about your CDs and didn't mind because you did give me credit, this jerk just went ahead and put them on ebay like he was the one who did them. He was very sneaky about it as well but hopefully he's learned his lesson about messing with some people:)

Thanks for the space mention as well. Actually my webhost is awesome and always giving me more space the longer I stay with them so they are the best. I host so many sites on them and have never had a problem:)

Andrea:)