Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Stories - complete, sequels or multi-part?

It seems that one or two authors these days are confused over what makes a story complete or multi-part. So I've been wondering if we might be able to adjust the Archive rules a little on this one.

We're never going to be one of those Archives which uploads stories part by part as you post here on the mbs. Part One, Part Two etc.

But we could upload stories that are essentially complete but a little open-ended and obviously intended to have a sequel. A prime example of this kind of story would be Female Hawk's A Time To Love, the first three sections of which are already on the Archive.

So...over to you. Let us know if it's a change you'd want.

Well, this is one of those things that can't be all or nothing. It's something that should be evaluated on a case by case basis, IMO. If you write a story, which you feel is complete, but then come up with a sequel later on, I believe you should be allowed to. Other considerations that should apply in whether to decide a story is a sequel or part of the same story are: Tone, Story Arc, Subject Matter, Story Length, and how much time has passed between when the stories have been written. (I know that there probably others, but this is what I've come up with off the top of my head.)

Take my current Monster-Epic-Soap Opera, which will make Missing Lois seem like a short story, (sorry, Labrat, really I am ) Wrong Clark (Book 2 of the Wrong Trilogy) for example. If I had know how long a story it would be when I started writing and / or posting it, I probably would have liked to break it up into smaller bite sized pieces. (Actually, I've broken up this story into shorter story-arc stories on the TOC for those people who don't have time to read full 100+ part stories as they post.) Of course, if I had done that, I don't know if I would have gotten discouraged along the way and never finished it. This way, being that it is one story, makes me all the more determined to finish it, because I'm one of those people who doesn't like to leave things incomplete.

While my Wrong Trilogy (the three stories I have planned) are based with the same characters and are inter-related, they are three separate stories, three different timelines, and hopefully will be able to be read individually (and in any order - I say, crossing my fingers) which is why I have broken up the stories in this manner. I believe reading the three as a group (in the order posted here on the boards) will be the most enjoyable, but I am trying to make them distinct stories.

Another example would be Lynn S.M.'s three stories about the autistic child. While they are set in the same universe, with the same characters, they are distinctly separate and complete (and wonderful BTW) stories. They vary in tone, POV, and subject matter.

My Green-Eyed Monster and Nightfall Honeymoon are also set in the same universe and are story and sequel. I separated the stories for two reasons: 1) The end of GEM finished the story arc of Lois and Clark meeting and falling in love, and 2) I wanted to write an Nfic version of the sequel, so needed a distinct separation point. (I had hoped that it could be read without reading the first, but I think that was just optimism on my part.)

If you take my Another Day and Another Day, Different View stories, both are short, and tell the same story from two different POVs. I don't think lumping them together as one story would have worked as well. I like to give the reader options. Do they want to read the other POV? Although I rated both stories PG13, Lois's POV was probably more PG, than Clark's.

If stories are inter-related, I would hope that the author / writer would indicate so in the description submitted to the Archives (or at least, an Author's Note at the beginning of the story). It's frustrating to read a story and not find out until later that it's part of a series, and not know a) in which order the stories go, and/or b) which other stories are part of the series.

In the "A Time to Love" series and "Matchmaker Chronicles", Female Hawk and KenJ have done a good job in indicating that these stories are part of a group and in which order they go.

Nan Smith also has several series on her list. While I love them, really I do, I would like to take a moment to thank the person

After reading what Virginia wrote, I change my answer (sort of). I said no, because I don't think people should be uploading stories in chapters as opposed to whole chunks. Someone with very little time on their hands (like me) might never get around to finishing and leave the rest of us hanging. Also, I like the idea that the archives are there for completed fics that we can read all at once. That being said, I agree with Virginia's statements. Sequels (or what are obviously intended to be sequels) should/could be uploaded separately, as well as vignettes that are loosely connected but operate well as stand-alone pieces.

(Basically, I think it should stay as it is. :p Change is scary. But I wouldn't mind terribly if the archives were changed, I'd adjust whichever way it goes.)

So that's my two cents.

Mouse, that's precisely the proposal. I don't anticipate stories being uploaded to the Archive in parts/chapters any time soon. If ever. Among other reasons, logistically, it would play havoc with our editing process.

Complete vignettes - linked or not - and sequels are already accepted by the Archive, so they aren't an issue.

LabRat :-)

Lately, I've been trying to sample some Castle fics from Fanfiction.net, but have been somewhat frustrated by the way to present their content.

I realize that the sheer volume of material that they archive makes it very difficult to keep things orderly.

The disadvantage they have is that they don't have a nice message boards for every possible fandom where writers can post their works in progress in order to get the feedback that we all desire. So, they essentially allow their writers to do so right on the archive.

Since we have the luxury of such a well organized and well managed fandom we can have our cake and eat it too.

The archive policies don't have to change at all. Luckily we have the message boards to work out our in progress stories, and volunteer editors to polish them up for us before we place the completed product onto the archive.

Sequels, prequels, and fics in a series are all legitimate 'complete' story arcs and should be treated by the archives as such.

Tank (who acknowledges that he is very intimidated by the emensity of fanfiction.net)

I agree completely that allowing stories to be posted in parts will significantly change the archives and take away the readers' certainty that if they start a story, they will get an ending (unlike the message boards.) I think this would be a huge step backwards.

When I submitted TTL1, there was no thought in my mind that I could be going against the guidelines. The GE said nothing. By the time TTL 2,3 and 4 were on the archives, there were questions being asked about whether they should be there at all.

TTL 5 is written, but TTL 6 is not - therefore, although TTL 5 is finished, I won't be sending it to the archive until I can send TTL 6 as well.

As a writer, I believe TTL5 is a story complete in itself. But it's also a part of a series. The confusion is not in whether I think the story is finished or not, but in whether it meets the archive guidelines.

With the archive so big, if a story is considered incomplete, it isn't hard to find a similar example already there.

When LabRat mentioned the increased number of Kerth-eligible stories that weren't on the archive, I wondered if this were a contributing factor.

As Virginia said, I'm not sure one rule will cover all stories. Perhaps the GEs could be given some guidelines (primarily: Are readers going to feel they were not given a satisfying ending?) If the GE feels readers are going to want to know where the rest of the story is, there could be discussion with the author about timing of upload.

Mostly, I think the archive works brilliantly. As a writer and occasional reader, I greatly appreciate all the work from LabRat, Lauren and others in maintaining and improving this resource.

Corrina.

Too true. I notice the same thing, esp. with Castle fic. It's just too big and unorganized-- and if you don't catch a story right away, you'll miss it completely with all of the uploads. Wish it could be more organized like this-- we're spoiled in OCD heaven over here. :p

LabRat :-)

After watching LnC:NAoS, I wanted, NEEDED, more. So, I went looking online. I discovered the Superman page (mostly movieverse, which isn't really what I wanted) over at FanFiction.net, but it was frustrating to start stories and then realize that they weren't finished. Later, when I tried to go back and finish reading them, I could never find the stories again. Then I found the LnC Archives, and read MLT's "The Time Traveler's Wife", and I haven't gone back to FanFiction.net. And then LabRat suggested I visit these Message Boards, and I've been in heaven ever since.

The change you made to incorporate LnC stories from other verse at the bottom of the Message Boards hasn't interrupted my heaven in the least (I've even trying to finish watching Smallville, so I can read some of those stories without spoilers).

The only change I ever wanted was a way to bookmark a spot in a story on the Archives, so I could read it over several days. I've found that downloading stories to my Nook has solved this problem.

There are often stories on the Archives that I read where I'm left wanting more. Not from lack of an ending, but because the authors have made me involved with their characters and I *want* to read more. If the story line is complete and there aren't any major dangling plot threads left, making the reader go "huh, what about?" then it works as a completed story. <<backs away blushing from this description as it could describe the end of one of my stories even though that WAS "the end" of that storyline.>>

Okay then, so it looks as though we have a concensus.

LabRat

One of the reasons I love going to the archives is because the stories are complete. Some of the fics take years to finish. I vote to leave things as they are.

As long as each part is - at least at some level - able to stand alone, I think it should be acceptable to submit them separately. Parts that can't exist or be understood except in the context of the larger story, should be submitted only as part of a single larger submission. (Just my opinion. :shrug:)

I say that because I have been close to - or over - that line myself once. I originally submitted "After a Door Slams" thinking that it was done. Only after I submitted it, did I start on the sequel. In retrospect, the three "Door Slams" stories are at (or over) the edge of what was allowed.

Now I am planning to do something like that again. I wrote LLMS several years ago as a stand-alone. Now I plan to add (at least) four more parts to that arc. Each will be written with the goal of being able to be read as stand-alone parts, but will be tightly linked to the others of the series.

I was plotting LLM... stories while this thread was in process. Between my history with the "Door Slams" stories and my plans for LLM..., I am keenly interested.

Now, all that said, I don't really have a strong opinion. If I had to do it over, "Door Slams" would be one longer story in three movements. (Actually four, since "Evening After" is itself in two movements.) As for my planned LLM... stories, I have no idea what I would do now if I hadn't started by writing the last part three years before the first part. As things are, I plan to submit them in parts.

However, I'm a "color within the lines" sort of person and am happy to drift with the tide.

Bob