Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Popularity and Feedback.

Hi FoLCs

Recently I have been thinking about what makes a writer or a video maker popular.

There are some new authors and video makers that, due to lack of feedback, lose interest or give up on sharing their ideas.

Some readers claim they don't have time to post FDK, others that they don't have time to watch more than one video. However, there are some writers and video makers that are rewarded with comments.

Comments are something very necessary for a writer or video maker's improvement, but right now I'm more interested in getting to know why this phenomenon of lack of feedback for some and plenty for others exist.

Thanks for stopping by, and if you wanna vote, be my guest

I voted other to both questions.

Popularity is how well liked someone is, but in terms of this context I'm not sure what it means.

And for the second question, I write fdk for stories that really capture my attention, and I usually email it or send it over IRC if the person happens to be on. I do post "fdk" - short notes of encouragment on the boards occasionally, but not frequently. I'm slack, I know, but I don't expect much fdk for anything I do.

It depends. I try and read as much as I can. Sometimes I just don't get around to some stories. Even with my favorite authors, I still haven't read everything by them. When it comes to feedback, I'll admit the type of story has a lot to do with it. I love to pick apart stories with a bunch of parts. I think I've had just as much fun in some of the FDK threads as in the stories themselves sometimes LOL. I do try and make the rounds on various stories, though. I don't always leave feedback on other stories just because a meager "Nice story" sounds kinda lame coming out of my mouth. Sometimes I'd rather wait until I can either say something constructive or at least something longer than 2 words.

Ultimately what I read has everything to do with quality. If it's decent, I will (eventually) come. If it's not, well, I'll try again if you write another story. God knows we're all not going to get an award nom for every story we write. I've seen way too many people flip out over the Kerths, and some of my favorite stories were never even nominated. Whether or not you have an icon next to your story isn't the wham-bam, end-all of success. If it is, I clearly need to be extending my two-year hiatus everytime I write something.

The videos are a different story. My internet connection is a huge issue. Jesuit schools, you'd think for the outrageous tuition we pay, we'd get a better hook up.

Interesting poll!
JD

I think it's an unfortunate fact of life, Erica, that if people have only limited time to read/watch then they will tend to choose which stories/videos they read/watch out of the masses posted.

In many cases, this means that they will tend to naturally gravitate towards authors/vidders whose projects they have enjoyed in the past and who they can be reasonably assured they will enjoy now. The reliable option. They don't want to risk wasting that precious time taking a chance on something/someone new.

It is sad that they will tend not to venture into new, untested territory, but unfortunely it happens and you can understand why it does. I don't blame anyone for that, but it is discouraging for the new talent, I know. It is something that bothers me, personally, and if I get the chance to encourage new talent, I will. But, speaking personally, I just don't have the time (and it has to be said the inclination) to read long stories these days, so my comments are mostly confined to vignettes and shorts in the stories. But I am an equal opportunities ignorer. I'll fail to read and comment on stories by my favourite authors these days as well as new talent if the story is too long for my current 'schedule'.

It may make new talent feel a little better if I mention that it's been my experience - particularly lately - that it's not just a problem for them. I've heard some very well-known authors express their discouragement at the lack of feedback on their stories, too. So it's not confined to new talent alone.

I have been able to catch up periodically with videos and I was delighted to be able to offer feedback to new vidders there. I'll admit I was very surprised and a little dismayed to see that some new talent had received no feedback - in the case of one particular vidder who had produced some excellent videos, the best I've yet seen imo, this was particularly discouraging for me. I'm sure even more so for them.

I think though, in many ways, we have a problem in this fandom with expectation of feedback. That the bar has been raised too high over the years and now it's become a problem often rather than anything else. I often get the impression that I'm expected to read everything that is posted and comment on it and can often be made to feel very guilty if I haven't. It's become, it seems, unacceptable that readers might not read a story simply because it doesn't suit their own personal bias/tastes (and we all have those) or because they've skimmed the first segment and decided they just plain don't like it. Or a multitude of other reasons why they simply don't read.

This phenomenum only becomes truly apparent when you visit other fandoms and realise that expectation just isn't there. In the Stargate community, for instance, stories are dumped in great numbers onto the main story archive each day/week and the general expectation of authors seems to be that if they are read and feedback offered that's great; if they aren't, they aren't, it was worth writing them just for the fun of doing so.

I kind of regret, sometimes, that new authors/vidders here aren't able to share that same experience. It seems to me they miss out on so much that we, older <g>, authors used to take for granted. The difference between FoLCdom and most other fandoms I've visited on the net, of course, is that our system of posting stories in parts on a forum and getting feedback on each segment is I've found, pretty rare. And it's that system that's led to this expectation that projects must generate a response from the audience they're presented to and that feedback, often, seems to be the only worthwhile reason to produce something.

It saddens me because it means authors/vidders seem to be missing out on the pure, simple pleasure of producing something simply because it's fun to do and they enjoy it. An experience which dominated my writing career for years before the internet came into play and feedback became not just the norm, but the expected. I remember so vividly the days of paper zines, when fdk was practically non-existent and an author had zero contact with their readers. I remember the delight, but also the complete shock when I received a letter in the mail from a reader who'd read one of my stories. I think that letter was the only feedback I got in an entire decade. Think on that!

Not that I'm at all saying that new talent - or any talent - shouldn't have those expectations. They've sadly become an inevitable part of the system we've created and that's no one's fault really. And I realise, too, that things have moved on and that expectations are very different now from my early writing days, and in many ways this is a Very Good Thing. I've taken a lot of pleasure and delight over the years in the fact that I can post a story at 3am in the UK and have readers commenting on it from Israel or Canada or wherever two hours later. That's a wonder that's always stayed fresh for me.

And I know, too, that it's easy for someone who's been fortunate in the feedback they've received to say 'it doesn't matter if you don't get feedback, write/produce for you, because it's fun and you take pleasure in it'. But, I do wish sometimes, all the same, that feedback hadn't become so much the be all and end all, the sole reason for and the sole reward for writing and producing. The sole measure of success. Technology and progress have brought great benefits, but they also seem to have taken away some of the sheer joy in it, too. And that's just...sad.

Well, this seems to have become something of a maudlin meandering <g>. Basically, boiled down, imo there can be a whole host of reasons why some stories get feedback and some don't and if there was a solution to that and a way to ensure that new talent got the encouragement they need I'd jump on it. I really wish there was a simple answer. It does distress me that there must be so much talent out there that becomes discouraged and gives up because of lack of attention/feedback. It is a problem I would like to see solved - but as to the solution, well, I have no more answers than anyone else, I'm afraid. And it's not for lack of thinking about it.

Unfortunately in many ways, I think we're the victims of our own success. We have such a wealth of talent in this fandom, and that talent is so prolific that there often just aren't enough hours in the day for many of us to ensure that they all get a share of the attention.

I had a thought on this a time back actually - was considering suggesting an 'Adopt A New Talent' policy. <g> Whereby, readers would give consideration to chosing the offering of a new talent to read/watch each week, along with that favourite, safe, realiable author. Just one. Think of the difference that would make to new talent if each of us who don't have time to read everything chose just one out of the masses to try. It wouldn't take that much longer out of our time, but would make a huge difference in encouraging new talent, I suspect.

Can you tell this is a problem that's been on my mind a lot for some time? :rolleyes:

LabRat

I often slip into the habit of not posting feedback unless I have something constructive to say, or at least something more than just, "Hey, I'm reading this and I enjoyed it." Mostly because I think it sounds kind of weak.

However, lately, I'm really trying to post more, despite my misgivings, because I know how much *I* enjoy receiving even the simple little messages. When there's a slew of things being posted, I try and get at least one up for each particular author, even if it's just a simple three words. I tend to send a lot of my longer more in-depth FDK by e-mail, but I usually only do that when I both have the time, and am stirred so much by a story that I really, really *want* to.

I kind of have to agree with Lab, though, about the feedback. It's a shame that people are getting discouraged, but really, feedback should be a wonderful bonus, not an expectation.

I think the "other" option was the most popular <wink>.

I think some authors get feedback because of popularity, their stories and writing style have become well known and the readers can generally count on getting a good read in by sticking with Folcs who get good reviews. And I think most people post on stories they read, even if it is just to say "great story" and leave it at that.

Thus you have the most popular writers getting the most feedback.

TEEEEEEJ

I haven't looked at the poll yet or read all the responses here, but I wanted to remind people of the poll I recently ran on who's reading CKTIYL. A staggering 76 people responded, out of which 56 said they were reading the story.

A whopping 56 readers! Wow!

Yet, out of those 56, how many have posted feedback? I'd estimate around 12.

So, take heart, writers and video-makers! There's a very large invisible audience out there. Don't ever assume that low feedback equates to low readership.

I know your question focuses on feedback, Erica, but I saw that Labrat's response began with an observation of why people choose to *read* certain stories, rather than why they post feedback on them, so I thought the information from my poll would be relevant.

Edit: Okay, I did the poll. You didn't define whether the popularity question related to the writer/video-maker or the work they create. I assumed you meant the person rather than their works, so chose other: popularity to me is how well liked you are as a person. Whether I post feedback depends mostly on whether I have something to say or not. I'm not a hugely chatty person and I don't like to just repeat what others have said before me, so it's fairly rare that I can think of something to post.

Yvonne

Question 1:
I chose 'other'. I think that most of these factors are interrelated, one way or another, and that the best answer is 'all of the above'.

Question 2:
I chose 'I post feedback to anyone'. When reading something on the boards, I always post feedback (unless I have nothing nice to say, which happens very rarely, if ever). When reading from the Archive, if it's a story I enjoyed, I'll most likely email my feedback.

I would like to comment on something LabRat said:
I see your point, LabRat, and I partly agree.

The thing is, if one writes just for their own pleasure, they can very well keep their work in their hard disk and the pleasure remains the same. The moment they decide to post it in the Internet or otherwise show it to someone, it means that (at least somewhere deep inside) they want other people's opinions on it.

I do write for pleasure. When I joined the FoLCdom, I'd already been writing for years. When I want to feel that pleasure, I open Word and start writing something.

However, I also find pleasure in receiving feedback for something I created - and when I want to feel that pleasure, I post my story here (if it's an L&C one) or I give it to a friend of mine (if it's something original).

I admit I feel kind of jealous of the writers who receive lots of feedback. I may be wrong, but I have the impression that the amount of feedback is strongly connected with the number of readers (in an analogies sort of way). And, well, when I post a story (or a video, for that matter) that receives very few or no comments at all, it's only natural to think that my work either sucks (and people didn't want to say that, so they preferred not to comment at all) or that very few people took the time to actually take a look at it. Both are discouraging.

Now, I've never been so discouraged as to stop writing altogether - and I suspect this is mainly because I love writing anyway, and because I'm very self-confident (sometimes bordering on stubborn and arrogant). But someone less confident, in my position, might give up. And I'm not trying to sound like a martyr by saying that; just saying that I have personal experience on how hard the lack of feedback can be for a writer.

Lastly, about the videos: I have a slow connection and don't download plenty. Also, I prefer trailers than music videos, so I'm more likely to download a trailer than a music video. And, since it takes me much time to download something new (which is old news by the time I've finished downloading) I rarely post comments on the boards and rely most on emails for that.

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

I'll read anything that catches my attention and seems to have a premise I'll like. When it's an author whose work I've read before, I have a headstart on figuring out if I'll like the new thing or not. There are very few authors that I will read *every* *single* *thing* they write; even authors I like will sometimes tackle premises I don't. And vice versa.

Sometimes, I admit, I form opinions on a pretty shaky basis -- I heard people raving about how wonderful and angsty "When the World Finds Out" was, for example, and saw some snippets quoted, and decided I did *not* want to go anywhere near that story <g> But I know that's not very reliable; when I finally read the story off the archive, I loved it.

Even if I do read something, I might not comment -- I would like to always leave a comment on everything, but some days I just don't have the emotional energy to find something interesting to say. When I read something by a new(ish) author, I do make more of an effort to comment and say encouraging things.

Videos are a little different -- for reasons I do not fully understand, I'm always a little reluctant to open a new vid. So there are lots of vids I haven't commented on. Which I feel guilty about, since I *make* vids and I really want people to watch & comment on *my* stuff...

I have no idea if any of that made any sort of sense. Today's one of those low-brain-wattage days...

PJ

I have to admit that I was disappointed to see the title of this poll. Why? Because I've seen this claim made many times before: that feedback is linked to popularity. Only 'popular' people get feedback. If you don't have lots of friends in FoLCdom, if you're not part of some 'clique' or other, you don't get feedback even if your work is excellent.

I've never believed that to be true. I would hate to think that I only get feedback on my stories because I'm somehow part of the 'in-crowd'. Did CC get shedloads of feedback on In A Better Place because she hangs with the cool guys?

I've heard it suggested - even wondered if it were true myself - that writers who rarely post feedback on other people's stories are less likely to get feedback themselves. I've no idea if that's true. It doesn't enter into my own calculations, though - I don't look at a story and try to remember if the author has ever posted feedback to me or to others. Whether it works that way for some people, I don't know.

Only posting feedback on friends' stories? Again, that's not true for me - one of my closest friends is currently posting a story and I've commented on very little of it. Sure, I'm her BR and so she's already heard what I have to say, but I'm not deliberately going in and posting because she's my friend.

So why else don't I post feedback on stories?(I'll come to videos in a minute). First, the story might not appeal to me. If it's on a theme I really don't care for (New Krypton, a crossover, a pregnancy or baby story, an all-action story, or a fluffy PWP nothing-happens story, for example) then I'm unlikely to read it. I'll read the first part. (If it's one-part only and hasn't really appealed, I won't post feedback). I might skim the second. If it hasn't caught my attention sufficiently to overcome my adverse reaction to the subject-matter, I don't read on. Second, the story might go in a direction I don't care for. Maybe I find the actions of a lead character out of character. Or just not to my taste. Or something happens I don't like. Maybe then I should say so - but then, if others are enjoying it what right do I have to criticise? I did actually post to say to one author, relatively recently, that her story was heading in a direction I couldn't accept so I was bowing out. Again, other readers seem perfectly happy with what's happening. So do authors want to be told when they've crossed a line preventing some readers from enjoying their story? Especially if they're perfectly happy with the direction they're taking?

For a few stories, it is related to quality - once or twice I have tried to be kind to a struggling author and suggest that she use a spellchecker, try to learn some grammar, get a beta-reader. That's not always appreciated, and posting a comment like that is always a risk. Is it going to scare the author off? Or will s/he respond positively and ask for help? Sometimes it's just easier to stay quiet.

If I just plain don't like a story? Find it boring/badly written/too many problems in it to know where to begin? That's rare on these boards. But where that is the case I certainly won't post feedback - what's the point in posting to say 'I really didn't like this story' or 'your writing needs lots of improvement'? Thankfully, that kind of situation is rare - but nobody's going to post feedback to say that. Not unless they're just plain nasty. If I'm going to post a comment, I want to be able to say something positive before I go on to something critical - not much hurts an author more than getting a feedback post which is only critical. Especially if it's the only post that person has made on their story.

But sometimes it really is just inertia. Even with stories I'm really enjoying. And that's true of all of us. I could notice that someone who's commented regularly on instalments of a longer story of mine simply disappears for a few instalments. I'll start wondering if she's just got bored with it. It'll turn out that she's been away, or that she just hasn't the time, or energy, or plain impetus to post comments for a while.

I said I'd come to videos. Someone asked about comments on videos once before, and several people said that a lot of the time it's about the song. If I don't know the song, or don't like it, I won't watch the video. I have to be honest too and say that, even though I've now made some videos myself, I prefer trailers to videos. I'm a fanfic lover at heart. So if it's a choice between watching a new trailer and watching a new video, the trailer wins every time. If it's a new video or a new fic, the fic wins every time.

Do I post feedback on every video or trailer I watch? Almost every trailer. Something more than half of the videos. Fairly or unfairly, the art of videos just appeals to me less. And, yes, that's pretty hypocritical given I've made videos and want feedback on them.

How do I choose which videos to watch? First and foremost, the song. Then if I've heard that the video is something different - for example, Rachel's Inspector Gadget, which was a lot of fun. Videos made by my friends? Well, if Kaethel makes a video I'll watch it, but then she's taught me everything I know, so it's a small quid pro quo. But - as she knows - I haven't liked/posted feedback on everything she's made. I didn't care for her Broken video, because I don't like the song.

Videos made by 'popular' video-makers? Well, I went off one 'popular' maker's videos some time ago because she started using far too many fancy transitions, which just made me feel that my eyes and brain were being jerked around. They were worse than distracting. Other 'popular' makers have lots of videos I've never watched, not because I don't like their videos - I do - but I'm an occasional video-watcher. I don't go on a watching spree - for me at least, watching several together tends to make them all blur into one. Especially where the same scenes are used in lots of videos.

LabRat correctly points out that there are lots of new video-makers, and I really should watch some by them. And if I get the time and feel in the mood for it, I will.


Bottom line on feedback, for me? It depends. If I have the time and the inclination to read/watch. Then if I have the time/inclination to post - and not posting depends on too many factors to pin it down to just one.

But the one thing it's not is popularity-based. I try not to feel offended when that's suggested - as if I choose what to post on on the basis of popularity, or I only get feedback on the basis of popularity. And if it really was 'popularity', then how would new authors ever get feedback?


Wendy

Yes, but, see, that was the point I was making earlier, Anna - I just don't think that's necessarily true all of the time. At least - it never used to be.

Before the internet came along there was a hugely healthy and productive writing community busy churning out stories by the truckload. But at that time there was also zero feedback and none of us had any expectation of ever hearing from a single soul who read our stories. We were literally working in a vaccum.

If it's true that people only put their stories out in the world to get people's opinions and would otherwise not share them at all, then fanfic would have died a slow, lonely strangulated death long since and we wouldn't be here today. Yes, we wanted to share. We wanted others to read what we'd written. We hoped that they enjoyed them as much as we had writing them. But we could never be sure of that because there was no communication whatsoever between author and readers. We were working in the dark.

And yet. Stories were written and published all the same.

So, logically, there had/has to be other reasons besides wanting opinions and feedback that encouraged fans to write fanfic and not just keep them on their hd but send them out into the world.

I can only speak for myself of course, but I can give you my reason. During that time, I wrote stories to please myself. They were the put-on-paper renditions of the stories in my head. The 'But what if...?' and 'I wonder..." When I had them completed I wanted to share them with fellow fans. Maybe some of them would get pleasure from them as I had. So I submitted them to the appropriate zine for the fandom which was being produced at that time and then I was happy in the (reasonable) knowledge that someone, somewhere was reading my story and (hopefully) enjoying it.

Actually getting confirmation that someone had read it or Feedback or readers' opinions wasn't something I even thought about. Never entered my head I'd ever hear from anyone who'd read one of my stories. Because it just simply wasn't an option. It wasn't something that happened, so it wasn't something that occurred to any of us to hanker after or expect.

Although, I should say here that there was probably one exception to that. You could sometimes get readers' opinions when you attended conventions. But you had to be a fairly recognisable name before that happened. Con attendees had to put your face or namebadge together with that author whose story they'd read in a zine six months ago. And there were fewer of those around then than there are now, so it was probably on the rare event side of ever happening. Which was still marginally better odds than ever hearing from a reader outside of a con.

Of course, that was then and this is now. And lots of things have changed inbetween the two. It is possible, I guess, that today the sole reason now for an author to share their work is to get opinions and there are never any other reasons. Which, again, I would understand, given the way the culture/system has progressed over the years, but just be very sad that the internet had brought us to that.

Having said all that, I suspect that you may be right that, today, there are no more authors who simply write just for the pleasure of writing and share just for the pleasure of sharing, as we all did back then, and that loss is something to be regretted, I think. Certainly, I'd find it somewhat sad if that was true, right across the board and sorry for today's authors who've had the misfortune to miss out on that writing culture of the past.

LabRat (Yes, I think I changed my mind halfway through that post...that's what you get when you think it out on the hoof as you type )

Ah, the good old days... I wrote fanfic for paper zines, too, way back when. Yeah, I wrote the stories because I had an idea and I wanted to see how it came out. But I do remember being absolutely ecstatic when I got that first copy of a zine with *my* story in it. Printed on paper, along with other great stories, with my name and everything! No, I never got feedback from any readers, but the editor of the zine said she liked it <g> and at the time, that was quite a thrill. Actually, "it" was a series in four parts; they were printed in two editions of the zine. The coolest part might have been that for the last two stories, in the the second zine (which came out later), she had gotten a fan artist to draw illustrations for my story.

So, um, said all that to say this -- it wasn't always pure art for art's sake, and I, at least, got some rewards back from writing. I don't see posting on a message boards as that much different.

Maybe the difference is, when we wrote for 'zines, we never expected to hear much of anything back, so any reaction we got was a huge bonus. Here, where it's so much easier to get comments, there's an expectation that the universe *owes* us feedback, and if we don't get any we're being deprived.

Or not Just a few thoughts...

PJ
who thinks that hand-drawn illustrations for specific fanfic stories would still be way cool...

Fascinating questions and discussion.

I answered "Popularity = quality" for the first question, assuming that popularity applied to a person's work and not that person him or herself. I think fanfic works like any other form of art - if people are pleased with what they read/see/hear/whatever by a particular person, they will come back for more. Over time, that particular writer/vidder/artist will develop a fanbase and his/her name will become well-known. His/her stories will be sought out and read by a healthy portion of people.

Perfect example - CC Aiken. From her very first story, CC's work has been admired because she writes very well and tells great stories. Now the mere mention that CC has begun posting a new story or has one ready is enough to send many people scurrying to the MBs. CC is a popular writer because she's delivered a quality product. And when you have a large quantity of people reading your story, you end up with large amounts of feedback.

That being said, I don't think a lack of feedback means that no one is reading. Yvonne's poll proved that.

I'll put out these theories as to why even good stories sometimes garner slow feedback threats, but they might be hogwash. Perhaps the people who like certain types of stories aren't the kinds of people who leave loads of feedback.

Perhaps the tone of the story - for example, a story that is dark or sad or angsty - doesn't garner as much feedback as one that is WAFFY because it is harder to think of things to say - to put your feelings into words. I mean, it's easy for me to type off a "Wow, I'm all melty inside! That was so cute " response to a sweet, kissy story and a lot harder to say "I'm crying because ..... and I'm scared to death that this....is going to happen...."

Perhaps people have only enough time to read but not enough time to post feedback and have every intention of returning later, but when they return later, another segment has been posted and they want to read that.

Lots of reasons I can see why people read but remain quiet that have nothing to do with how good the story is or how popular the writer.

And I 100% agree with Lab's view that in a world where people have a limited amount of time, they tend to use that time to read/watch a proven entity. There simply isn't enough time to "risk" trying a new writer, therefore people turn to writers they are fairly certain will deliver up a sure thing.

In the real world, look at the Harry Potter phenomenon. People will be lined up all over the world to get the next installment this summer because JK Rowling has consistently delivered a great story, and people know they will be getting more of the same.

As for feedback, I chose "Other". I rarely read fanfic these days, even the fanfic by writers whose work I've loved in the past. I simply don't have the time (and I'm sad about that).

Honestly, if I'm not leaving feedback, it's because I'm not reading the story. In addition to lack of time, I might not be reading the story because either the theme/premise didn't appeal to me or I started but found something about the story that caused me a problem (poor grammar, spelling, OOC behaviour, etc.) and I quickly stopped. Again, my time limitations mean I can't spend time on stories that I'm not pretty darned sure I will love. Too, I admit a reluctance these days to begin stories that will be long because I know it will be hard to keep up with them. Sometimes I go a few days without getting to the MBs, and by then if I've missed a few posts, I feel like it will be too hard to catch up.

But when I do read a story, I try to leave feedback because I know how much I appreciate feedback when I'm posting.

But going back to what Lab said about expectations for feedback. I think she's right, that at least in this fandom, the expectation for feedback is pretty high. When I wrote and posted my first story, it was because I had this idea in my head that I wanted to get out for myself. I posted it because I thought it would be fun to share it, but in a million years I never expected to get feedback. I admit, though, that the feedback I received was what kept me writing. I honestly can't say what I would have done had I gotten no feedback whatsoever. I like to think it wouldn't have mattered because the writing part was the reward.

I think any writer outside of the realm of fanfiction understands that feedback for the stuff they manage to get out there will be at best minimal and at worst, negative. Only the most famous of writers have fans that provide constant feedback, and most writers are lucky to receive a positive review here and there and usually tempered by several negative reviews, if any reviews at all.

Honestly, IMO, if you are writing fanfic purely for the feedback, you'd be better off spending your time doing something else. Since fanfic is a labor of love - something you do because you love the show and you have stories you'd like to see explored - the writing has to be enough of a payback.

As for videos, I'm just like Wendy in that it is all about the music. If I don't love the song, I won't watch the video. I admit that some of the videos on the short list for Alt-Kerths are hard for me to watch. Not because the video is badly made - far from it. I just don't like the music and can't manage to get over that to enjoy the video.

Kind of like reading a well-written story about a topic that I don't like. I know Stephen King is an excellent writer, but I won't read his books because I don't like to be scared.

Lynn

This is not necessarily true all the time, but I have noticed that stories written here by people who have been around a long time(part of the clique, and there IS a clique, don't deny it)and write choppy storylines or even have major grammatical errors still get HUGE positive feedback lists, even though the story is mediocre in subject and format.

Now of course most people aren't going to write in and say "Man that story sucked" or even "well it was so-so" but I get real cynical about feedback when I read something along those lines, yet see rave reviews from all the same people.

Totally brings me back to highschool, where the popular kids' posters were voted best in class even though their artwork was done in 2nd grade crayon and most of it was done by their moms.

...Whoa flashback!! Talk me down Carrie!!

TEEEEEJ

Hi FoLCs

First off, I'd like to thank everybody who is answering this poll.

Now, I'd like to give my cent on this topic, commenting on some postings.

It saddens me too, Labby. I usually make twisted simple vignettes and I have nothing to complain about my Fdk rate because I feel very afortunate when I get one or two comments.

Aria, what may sound weak for you, may sound sweet in other ears. I mean... Just the fact that someone says s/he is reading or read it, makes you feel someone actually took the time to read what you had to say. Yvonne just said she was surprised when she found out 56 people were reading and she was getting around 12 fdk postings. Isnt it something rewarding to know that eventhough a few are posting fdk, lots of others are reading too?

Actually Anna, this poll was for you. I felt awful when I saw your challenge story didn't receive any feedback. It was not the best you have ever written, but it still deserved comments!!! I'm sure anyone can find something good in a story and if s/he doesn't.. well, then say it!!! who said feedback is only about positive comments? This is supposed to be about improvement and sharing opinion and not praising only the good sides.

Anna, you are a great author. Don't let lack of feedback let you down. if it is up to me, you wont ever have to start your own feedback thread and ask for feedback.

Don't be disappointed, Wendy. It was just curiosity. We have talked about it, but I felt like hearing what other people have to say. By no means I want to point out great authors and say they should be ashamed for getting so many comments while others get so few. I do think what you have gotten is part quality of work, part reputation, and most of all, talent.

You are talented (period).

In my opinion, you should.. I mean, I am a foreigner and I do crave for corrections most of the time.

So, if you by any chance read any of my silly stuff and you see a mistake like Kaethel found in my MLTVs or when like others did, I'd appreciate that.

I hope you don't get offended by my silly questions. Again, nothing was intended here besides a geniune curiosity.

I am just concerned that other talents like CC will be lost just because their first work wasn't the best. Potential we all have. Limitations too, of course.

This means you havent been reading my stuff. But it's good you keep finding time to read.

I agree. Feedback is addictive.

Fans... fans are cool!

I agree. But when I see authors like Anna starting their own thread because no one could say something about her work, it upsets me.

I like the scary ones, but I never really understood the geniality of Stephen King.

I'm quite familiar with the expression (I heard it a few times around), though I'm not sure if this brings any benefits to anyone except true friendships.


MDL

Obviously no-one's going to name names here, but I've been around from the start of these boards and I'm racking my brains, TJ, to think of even one person this could remotely apply to.

As for cliques, I'm sure there are several of them. That's the way it always worked in school, too.

Erica:

I wasn't talking about pointing out errors - I meant that where events in a story go in a direction which doesn't appeal to me, or something happens that I find unlikely or out of character. Let's say - for an absolutely ludicrous example - it's a story about Clark being high on red Kryptonite. Now, that was done very well by Yvonne. But then let's say the author has him go out and rape someone just for the sheer hell of it because he's high. Now, that would be enough to stop me reading right there. I might post to say so; I might just never open a post of that story again.

Now, we're not talking here of anything that ludicrously out of character, but there have been a small number of occasions when a story I've been reading goes in a direction I wasn't expecting and don't care for. Well, most of the time other readers are still enjoying it, so who am I to object? Let them enjoy it. I don't think it helps the author to know that maybe one reader was put off, if her other readers still love the story, so I won't say anything. I'll just stop reading. If I'm asked directly 'why did you stop posting comments on my story?' I'll tend to explain why, but not otherwise.

So it's not just about correcting errors! And I'll say again here, Erica and Anna, I really admire you guys and others - Kaethel, Cherry and many more - who write in languages not your own. You do an absolutely amazing job.


Wendy

I know this poll is about "popularity", but I will mainly respond to how I leave comments/read stories.

I told Erica that this would ruffle some feathers, but my Evi-Dog friend posted anyway . Good for her, I say!

First, when it comes to videos/trailers, I don't really watch them. Sorry. I don't really like either Dean Cain or Teri Hatcher, so watching them to music just doesn't really do anything for me. I am not really a visual person. I like reading and being able to imagine how the characters I love would act. I admit that I have trouble forming images of the characters even when I read. So the rest of this post really only applies to fanfic for me.

I have been writing Lois and Clark fanfic (and fanfic for several other shows) since I was 16 and first found out what fanfic was. I didn't (and still don't) consider myself a writer. A mathematician? An engineer? Sure. A writer? No way.

When I was younger, I used to be *so* jealous of the people who would post one story segment and get tons of comments and while I could post an entire story and not have the sum of the comments add up to someone else's one story part. I didn't start out writing for comments. I began writing because I saw something in the show that i didn't like and I thought that my way was better. And I thought maybe some other people might think so, too. But then I realized FDK is a drug. Once you get a small taste, you want more and more and more. I know, in my case, I wasn't getting very much at all. I thought it was because I didn't go on IRC. That was probably not true, though, because looking back now, I realized that my writing wasn't all that good. So I left the fandom entirely. When I came back, I had an idea for a story that would only work with the characters from Lois and Clark. So I wrote the story, not caring at all about the feedback I got.

Yes, it still bothers me to see that some authors don't get fdk. I tend to get more than my fair share of fdk now, and for that, I am so grateful.

I admit that I am sorely remiss on reading and leaving fdk. I do like to encourage younger/newer authors, but I also have the problem that I am sort of too mean when I post. If I don't like something about a story, I am generally too outspoken about it.

If I am reading something, chances are very good that I will post feedback about it. Either that, or I will send fdk in a private email. Since my mom was sick, I have had a hard time keeping up with what's been posted, so I know that I am sorely remiss on my fdk.

Now, regarding TJ's post --

Yes, I believe there are cliques in folc-dom. Maybe not cliques, but groups of similar interests or similar ages or similar geographic location or whatever else in common. And there is nothing wrong with that.

I know that I have a small group of friends who are writers. I don't know if the reason I especially like their stories is because I am friends with them or if because I am friedns with them, we have some similar views on the way the characters believe and similar tastes in plots we like.

Similarly, if someone annoys me personally, I am not very likely to read their stories. I feel that one's personality is often reflected in their writing style. And if you bother me through the way you behave in other areas, I will not waste my time reading your story.


I am curious which stories/authors you are talking about.

Just popping in quickly...

I know, it's just hard to remind myself of that sometimes. Like I said, I'm trying to get better about these things because I know how much enjoyment *I* get out of just a simple "Loved it." Two words are so much better than silence in that case.


As for cliques... Show me a organization composed of humans ANYWHERE that does not have a clique somewhere in it. The word is used with such stigma, but really... It is human nature to socialize, and through socializing we find common interests with others, and through those common interests we form close bonds with other human beings. You can't *not* have groups. It's the way of communication. They will always happen, and they aren't necessarily bad.

I may be blatantly honest, but I'm not mean.

Yes, cliques are a part of life and similar interests draw people together. I come to this board because I like LNC and quite enjoy the discussion topics, so I guess that puts me in the LNC fanfic clique <see good backpedaling there> but my cynicism didn't just pop out of nowhere either, so I won't back down off that stance entirely.

And I know this was just meant as a figure of speech, but to use the pronoun "you" could be taken personally. Might want to check that in the future. Unless of course the statement was meant personally.

TEEEEEEJ

You know I was just about to reply to TJ on the clique thing when you saved me the trouble by saying just precisely what I was going to, Aria. Almost word for word what I was planning to type. Uncanny.

I don't think we need feel any urge to defend ourselves for being normal.

LabRat