Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls Can't Even Explain...

All right, this one is just one of those things. Take the poll and you'll see what I mean.

Lynn

...And since we are on the topic of phrases...

Recently I was asked about my usage of the phrase "Come to find out..." I'm wondering if it's just strictly a U.S. thing.

Anyone else out there think this is:
a) common
b) common but only in the US
c) never heard of it
d) you've got it wrong - that's why the confusion

Lynn

LOL, great question. I'm kind of surprised at how many people vote for the correct option in this poll, considering how many times I've seen it used INCORRECTLY. <bg> (Not necessarily used incorrectly here, just in general.) Then again, I definitely know that FoLCs take grammar/punctuation/usage a lot more seriously than do most other people in the world.

And as for your added question, I use "Come to find out" regularly, too, though considering you and I are from the same part of the country, that probably isn't too big of a surprise.

Now just don't get me started on "The bridge needs fixed" ...

Kathy

And also while we're on phrases...

Why the 'of'? Superfluous, surely? What's wrong with Too big a surprise? What do others think?


Wendy

LOL, Wendy; I wish I had a dollar for every time you and I have had the "of" discussion. I could be sailing around the Carribean right now.

Kathy

I've seen Lynn and a few others use this "big of a surprise" type of construction quite a lot lately and, personally, have always just thought of it as an attractive US colloquialism. Hope that doesn't sound condescending because I don't mean it to be! I even wondered if it's a regional thing, because I don't think I've noticed all Americans use it.

Lynn, in what context would you use "Come to find out?" On its own, the phrase doesn't ring any bells with me - perhaps that means it's not familiar to me.

Yvonne

Quick roundup:

I've heard people use "Come to find out", but only on TV and in fanfic, never in my own neck of the woods, and have always considered it to be US. Though whether that's actually correct or just an assumption, who knows? Not having visited all of the UK, could just have missed anyone using it here.

"Too big of a surprise" - personally, I wouldn't use the 'of' in everyday speech, again, I tend to think of this as an Americanism. But either version works for me.

"The bridge needs fixed." Kathy, I presume you think this should be, "The bridge needs fixing." ? I've heard the former used more in the UK and in my neighbourhood than the latter, but both are fairly common.

LabRat (Lynn knows where I stand on the thing/think thing <G>)

Yvonne - I usually use "Come to find out" when expressing something that is contrary to what I had previously believed.

"Columbus thought the world was round. Come to find out, it was flat after all."

OR

"I thought Clark Kent was near-sighted. Come to find out, those glasses are just a disguise."

As for the extra "of" - I think we Americans tend to use that word more often than our UK/Non-US-English speaking counterparts. Specifically, I'd go with:

big of a surprise
deep inside of her

I'm sure there are others, but those two are the ones I get called about most often. I'm guessing it's one of those issues where we might all just have to go with where the writer comes from on that one.

The whole "thing" versus "think" issue - I know "think" makes a whole lot more sense. But it just looks so weird to me! I don't think I'll ever be able to use that phrase again.

Lynn

Okay, got you, Lynn. Nope, it's not a phrase I'm very familiar with, but like the 'of' thing, I kind of like it - adds a bit of local US colour.

Yvonne
(Who, scarily, found herself saying 'it makes me mad' the other day because she's written it so many times in fic. Yikes, I'm losing my Britishness!!! )

LOL Kathy:
Never heard of it. I know "The bridge needs to be fixed" or "The bridge needs fixing", but not what you quoted.
In the Paleolithic Era when I went to school we had a big lecture on symmetry in English. The tailing phrase must match the beginning phrase. i.e.
thing with thing
think with think
thus my answer in the poll. That being said (a phrase I found very very popular in New Zealand), nobody today seems to know much about writing proper English. I can't believe the mistakes in a reputable paper like The Los Angeles Times.
Or: Come to find out, there are many mistakes in a reputable paper like the LA Times.

Artemis

I grew up hearing, "You've got another thing coming." However, I learned the correct form (If you think that, you've got another thing coming) a long time ago, so it now sounds correct to me. But I can't remember actually using the phrase anytime in the past decade.

I find the "of" in "that big of a surprise" coming automatically to my lips, but I normally write it as, "that big a surprise."

Kathy, until you brought up "That bridge needs fixed," I'd forgotten about it. Kathy and Pam both commented on "The baby needs changed" when I was writing "Walk in My Shoes" for S6. Until they brought it up, I'd never heard that it was wrong. In my area, it's just another option to saying "The baby needs to be changed," and I've never heard anyone say "The baby needs changing."

Actually, I'm not sure why a present participle is correct while a past participle is incorrect. Anyone want to enlighten a hick from the sticks?

I agree with you, Wendy. It really grates on my sensibilities when I hear an 'of' thrown in when a simple 'a' is all that's needed. However, Lois does it repeatedly in the series, and I've read it again and again in fanfic. I refuse to dignify it by calling it an idiom. It's just plain bad grammar to me.

As for "Come to find out", I do consider that an idiom, and I use it all the time.

Jude

I've never even heard "you've got another think coming" before. It makes no sense to me. How can you have a "think" coming? "You should think (about that) again" certainly works. I assume that's the intended meaning. "Have a think coming," though... that makes as much serious sense to me as my (joking) complaints that the Epiphany's Catalogue still hasn't delivered my James Joyce order. Either that, or it sounds like something Boris and Natasha would say.

To me, the phrase has always been "have another thing coming," and it means that if you expected one thing to happen, the future holds a surprise.

I won't comment about the "of" other than to say that it seems necessary to me. I can't explain why. I can say that we absorb language on a very deep level as children. I grew up with that "of" there, so to me, it will always need to be there. It's as necessary to me there as it is in the phrase "a bit of a surprise."

Moving on... I've never heard the phrase "come to find out" used in that way. I've heard it as part of a question. "I see. And just how, pray tell, did you come to find out?" For what you're describing, I'd probably use something like "as it turns out" or "as it happens." I'd also be inclined to throw in a "though" or, depending on my mood, a "however."

Paul, amused by Shielah's inadvertently correct identification of the proper phrasing.

Hang on, I'm getting confused here. :p Which is the correct version? Another thing, or another think?


metwin1

Metwin1, the correct version is: If you think that, you've got another think coming..

See the Common Errors in English website, written by a Professor of English at Washington State University: this is what Prof. Brians says about the mistaken 'thing' version:

http://www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/thing.html


Wendy

Personally, I think everyone should get as many thinks as they need.

Sheila, try this explanation. The verb 'needs' takes an object. A past participle, 'fixed' cannot be an object. A gerund, 'fixing' or an infinitive, 'to be fixed', can. Btw, I say, "My grandson needs changing", all the time.

Jude

I was never actually taught the phrase, I only ever heard it in conversation. I just assumed people were saying "thing", and that is the word I have been using. I do admit, however, that "think" makes sense (in a humorous, ungrammatical sort of way).

I'll probably start using "think" now, as I find it amusing. (Not that it matters. The two phrases are homophones, and my listener will undoubtedly hear what s/he expects to hear, not what I'm actually saying.)

As for "come to find out", I use that all the time, in exactly the same way Lynn has explained. As in, I thought it was "thing" but come to find out, it's "think"!

Big of a surprise: I do add the supposedly superfluous "of" to many phrases, but not this particular one. According to "Language Corner" on internet, Merriam-Webster's Dictionary of English Usage, in a lengthy essay under "of a," says that in phrases like "that big of a deal," the usage is relatively recent, oral American idiom, rare in print except in reported speech.

"The bridge needs fixed" sounds very odd (and very wrong) to me. I would probably say "it needs to be fixed", but "it needs fixing" works, too.

- Vicki

I have always heard/said "another thing comming" although, admittedly I don't say it often (ever?). I had always assumed it meant something else I hear often, "You've got something else comming to you, buddy" or something to that extent. So I assumed it was a shortening of the second phrase.

I've never heard "Come to find out" used in the way Lynn uses it. I would use any number of Paul's options rather than "Come to find out" because it just sounds weird to me.

I heard "needs fixing" and "needs fixed" all the time, but it hurts my ears. Just like "You's guys." Is it that hard to insert the "to be" before "fixed?" The other way just doesn't sound right. It almost sounds like "You's guys" to me. Yes, unfortunately, I know many people who say "You's guys."

My father freaks out when ever anyone uses the surperfulus "of". If anyone (even someone off the street) makes the "mistake" of saying, "that's too big of a line," or something to that extent he screams, "too big A line," and then says, "That is poor grammatical construction. Try, 'The line is too long!'" Needless to say, his friends call him "Shut Up, Dave!"

- Laura

Oh, so it's 'think'? I didn't know this word could be used as a noun...

See ya,
AnnaBtG. (who has never used this phrase herself, but thought it was 'thing')