Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Fun with Polls How do you prefer nfic stories to be posted?

When an author has two versions of a story -- an nfic and a PG version -- how do you prefer to have the story posted? (Assume the nfic scenes are self-contained and can be pulled out in their entirety without disturbing the rest of the story.)

And yes, for those who are wondering, Momentum 2 is finished and I plan to start posting it the first week of December. I just need to figure out where the various parts are going to go.

I posted for door number two. Mainly because the only long nfic story I've ever written was never meant to be nfic. I never know what's going to happen until I get there--and it's often a surprise to me!

Laura

i thought about it, and ended up voting for option one. tough call. option two (which i've thought about before) would result in better comments folders (all together, not only longer, but with the possibility for discussion) and would save boards space.

i think, tho, that it works better the traditional way, continuity-wise. you can keep reading the story in the same place, and not have to wonder about when you need to look elsewhere, or have to look for a post in PG that says "go look over in nfic now" or something.

so, as a reader, i have a slight preference for the traditional way. i can see, tho, that as a writer, the other way might be better.

hope this is more helpful than confusing.

Paul

Well, as a non-nfic reader, I voted for door number two. It gets rather frustrating when I hear about parallel discussions in folders I don't read.

I can only imagine this is MORE true for the underagers.

I voted for the 1st option. I prefer to not have to have to check to different threads to find the story I'm currently following. Since most of the time I read the nfic version, (yes, I have come out of the closet as an nfic reader <g>)that would neccesitate me to keep track of both folders for one story. )

Maybe I am a little off here, but since I have no access to the nfic folder I am only left to imagine what is in there.

Why would you want to write L&C nfic scenes at all? I mean, isn't the whole deal a bit disturbing?

Julie (who chose the first option)

EDIT: just read what Rivka said. Hmm, I haven't thought of that. But I can imagine having to read the story and then go look for cut out scenes in other places kinda ruins the whole reading experience. Nfic or not.

YES!

Jen's Dance Squad

Oh yeah, option two sounds good to me. Takes up less space, and you could probably just add a couple of links within the posts to direct people between nfic posts and the main story...or at least that sounds pretty convenient to me...don't remember if I actually voted...it's after 4am.

Well, I had to vote for option one, because I really detest when authors do option two. Not that I expect anyone to accomodate my personal prejudices.

It's just one of those things I personally find really annoying. Not for any logical reason - just that it looks very untidy to me, having one story part in a folder without the rest of it - incomplete. I can see why there would be good logistical reasons for it though.

Julie - nfic is very much a matter of personal choice and prefence. Some adore it, some loathe it, some fall in between the two, and all shades of opinion lie between. Each to their own. Those who object to it can easily avoid it, thanks to the fair system we have of keeping it separate in a password-protected forum. Those who enjoy it can easily find and access it if they meet the access criteria. Everyone wins.

There are of course, many forms of nfic. I, for instance, haven't found any Buffy or Angel nfic that does anything other than make me shudder and hastily close down the screen. Lois and Clark nfic mostly focuses on exploring the deep, loving relationship between our heroes in a more adult form. Really, there's not much more in most nfic than you would find in most high street superstores in any modern bestselling novel. At times, much less in fact! <g>

LabRat (who recently discovered that romance novels have moved on just a smidgen from when she last read them as a teen.... )

YAY!! Momentum II!!

I have to agree with the majority, Kathy. Although I read nfic, I know there are some who don't - either because they're underage or because they simply prefer not to. It would be unfair on them for a story they're following simply to disappear for one section and then take up later with missing scenes.

Even if you were planning on posting a PG version of the nfic scenes, if everyone's following the main story in PG you may have nfic readers referring back to the nfic scene in the PG comment folders, which would again have PG readers scratching their heads and wondering what's going on.

My personal opinion is that it's better by far to post two versions of the story. Sure, you'll have smaller comment folders as a result, probably considerably smaller in the PG folder, but you know that you're giving PG readers what they want by posting your story for them where they can read it. And nfic readers get to have the nfic version all to themselves.

At least, whenever I've had two versions of a story I've posted in instalments, that's how I did it. Okay, I didn't do it with Poison, but then I didn't decide until a month or more after I'd finished it that it probably could be PGed - and so it's gone straight to the Archive.


Wendy

As a staunch non-nfic reader of Rivka's caliber, it might be surprising that I voted differently and chose option number one.

Yes, it's true that I might miss out on some interesting comments and discussions this way. But I still think it's better for an nfic story to be posted in its entirety on the nfic mbs, with its counterpart here on the gfic also posted as a separate entity, for the following reasons:

• I've always encouraged the gficcing of nfics. But if this becomes the current trend, then an nfic writer might be reluctant to gfic her story, since the nfic part is now only secondary to the main gfic story. That might not be fair to the author.
• The same interesting dicussions I might miss, by virtue of their taking place in the nfic folder, might make me uncomfortable in the gfic folder by referencing nfic scenes. It might also make readers feel less free with their comments, since they might have to edit out references to previous nfic scenes while commenting on gfic ones.
• While Kathy's story might specifically fit well to this manner of posting, I would imagine that most nfics would require a bit more complicated process of gficcing. By encouraging fics to be split in such a manner, we would simply encourage "pushing the envelope" a bit further -- and in my admittedly purely personal opinion, the envelope has already landed on the floor in a number of cases. :rolleyes:
• From previous discussions on the nfic/gfic topic, I understand that nfics tend to get much longer review folders (even if it's just a series of two-liners saying, "Ooh, that was steamy!"). That understanding might be wrong, of course; but if it's not, why deprive our hard-working authors of those extra kudos? True, that does translate into a smaller gfic folder, but gfic loyalists like Rivka and Tank and me are rather few in number. Get your FDK fix where you can, I say!

I wouldn't agree with those that assert it might be confusing to follow the story; after all, we have our lovely TOC folder, and it would easy enough for Kathy to add a link at the end of a gfic post that would post to its nfic continuation. Again, that might prove frustrating to gficcers -- as Rivka said, especially those to whom no nfic is a matter of rule and not of choice.

Regarding the "why would anyone nfic a story" question, I can only add that the choice is obviously theirs, just as my choice not to touch the stuff is obviously mine.

Hazel

Why does it require protection then? *makes a mental note not to buy any modern love novels*

I took the minority view of other. Why? Because I don't care.

I have no desire to read nfic, so I really don't care how those who do get their fix.
I like A plots and romance. Sex is not romance, so I don't need graphic sexual scenes to enjoy an existing or burgeoning relationship between two people. I'm not a 'prude' nor do I have any 'religious' objections to such things. I just don't care to read about such things. I've never been entertained watching (or reading about) OTHER people engaged in graphic sex.

Concerening the other components of adult fare;language and violence. I generally have little objection to such things when they are integral to the story. But, generally, in L&C fanfic there really is no need to go beyond PG13 in those areas. Now, that might seem hypocritical coming from someone who is reputed to like nasty whams. But I've never been a supporter of gore, or gratuitous use of violence. If one examines my own work they will find even the most nasty violence is either implied or occurs off camera. The reader's own imagination is more than enough to convey the horror the story may need.

Likewise, in this forum, we have characters who have already been established as not generally using 'salty' language. And if there is a story, or character, driven need for such an outburst it too can easily be handled by using other methods. "Maxie cursed Superman, and that meddling reporter Lois Lane, when he read the headline in that morning's Daily Planet." This is an option the text has over television and the movies. So it is fairly easy to avoid the need to use foul language to 'type' a character. The occasional invective allowed by PG13 can handle the need for any character to express a more extreme than normal reaction.

So, while I would never tell people who do read nfic that they shouldn't. I just don't see any reason why they need to. I can't think of any story that I'd care to read that would be improved by being nfic.

Tank (who definitely doesn't have the age factor to consider in his opinion of nfic)

As to why nfic a story, well, the only thing I can say is that sometimes it just works better as nfic. With my only experience writing a L&C story along those lines, going nfic was the best way to express what they were going through at the time. I don't read much of it--I think that the majority of the time, it's just not needed. I've read a few nfics where they were much better off without the nfic scene.

Laura

Julie asked,

In my experience, we are one of the few fandoms that does require password access for nfic (for those who don't know, this term means R or NC-17 rated stories in our fandom). Most fandoms just lump it all in together, generally by putting a rating on the top of the story file and let people read whatever they want. Trust me, we are by no means the only fandom where nfic is popular, LOL. And as has been mentioned, our nfic is of a much more romantic, loving variety -- and a good portion of it between <gasp> married characters who are <gasp again> faithful to each other! -- than you will find in most other fandoms.

However, maybe because of the nature of the show, this fandom has always tended to be more conservative when it comes to rating our stories and letting people access them. Our Archive ratings even show this -- what we call PG-13 generally agrees more with American television's TV-14 rating than what the movies use.

When the show was on the air, we had a lot more underage fans than we do now -- even 12 and 13 year olds were not unheard of -- and the adults on the list tended to be fairly conscious of that fact. Coupled with the fact that many of us are parents ourselves, we didn't want to take any chances that the parents of our youngest fans would be able to accuse us of "corrupting" their children. We wanted -- and still want -- our fandom to be a place where people of all ages and beliefs can feel comfortable/safe visiting us.

Remember, too, that this fandom began in 1993-94, when the Internet was still relatively new and there were a lot of news stories warning parents not to let their children on-line due to pornography, child snatchers, etc. There was also a great deal of debate in the US Congress about adult content on the Internet and threats of criminal action being taken against people who allowed minors to access that material. As it turned out, the world went in a different direction (as can be evidenced by a large portion of the spam that I receive, complete with X-rated photos being sent unrequested into my mailbox) but when we first began posting nfic online, we were extremely careful to take whatever steps neccessary to ensure that the owners of those sites woudln't be subject to any criminal prosecution. And even though it doesn't seem to be necessary now, we've kept up that pattern of protecting ourselves.

As for why people write/read it at all ... wow, that's a loaded question, especially when you imply it's "disturbing". So I'll just reiterate what others have said about it being a personal choice, just like it is to read NextGen stories (which don't usually hold a lot of interest for me) or Elseworlds or whatever. I will add, however, that there were many things that completely grossed me out at 14 that, by the time I was 16, held a very strong attraction for me and leave it at that.

Kathy (who really wasn't trying to open a discussion about whether nfic should/shouldn't be posted, but rather about the best way to post said stories. Interesting discussion, all the same.)

Kathy, I'm 15 and I started watching the show when I was 6, maybe 7. You don't have to explain that to me.

I have to say I've seen enough pornography so far, even if it was unwillingly (I get spammed as well my next step would be to jump of my (14th floor) balcony.
Julie

EDIT: I'm not calling nfic pornography, I'm just making a point about the graphic descriptions.

I'm going to try to remain as calm and cool as possible as I reply to this. And I'm going to keep in mind that you've never actually read nfic, so you have no frame of reference.

There is a VAST difference between nfic and pornography. As someone who has seen plenty of both, I assure you that nfic is not even in the same category. Nfic is about love and committment, it's about a healthy sexual relationship between consenting adults who love each other.

Was Michaelangelo a pornographer? He sculpted nudes - should he be lumped in with Penthouse and Playboy? Surely not, you say. That's different. That's art. Well, writing is as much a form of art as sculpting. Crafting a love story between characters is nothing at all like scripting a porn movie or penning a Penthouse Letter.

In fact, not long ago, the fandom was approached by an outsider who had never read any nfic stories. He said that he had written an NC-17 story about Lois Lane and asked for posting tips. But after reading the story, it was clear that his story was a far cry from what we normally see in this fandom. It took only a very brief desciption of what is normal for nfic for him to realize that his pornography would not be welcome here. He graciously bowed out and declined to post his story in the nfic section, seeing that it would upset regular nfic readers.

I know that nfic is not for everyone, and I would never dream of trying to persuade someone to read it if it makes them uncomfortable. Beyond that, we go the extra step to make it IMPOSSIBLE for someone to accidentally stumble across it. But respect needs to go both ways. As a writer of nfic, it makes me beyond angry to be labeled a pornographer.

Annie

I have to go with Annie here. I *have* written nfic more than once, and as an artist, I've both drawn and sculpted nudes. (People look better with clothes, trust me ) Does that make me a pornographer? Heck no! Strange as it may seem, I've seen more graphic depections (and icky) of sex in romance novels that I've picked up, and required reading for school (don't even get me started on what it said about oral sex in Edisto ewwwww) than in Lois and Clark nfic. Heck, our ratings system is so ultra-conservative, that I've read more graphic violence in children's books as well.

Laura

I didn't mean to imply it is pornography. Sorry if it sounded like I was. What I meant to refer to was the graphic part of it all. I really apologize if I sounded like I was calling you guys pornigraphers, that was really not what I meant.

I appreciate that there are strong feelings on all sides here, and of course everyone is entitled to her or his own opinion. No-one would want to suggest anything else. I'm hoping that we can keep tempers calm here and avoid insulting or offending people!

Julie, at 15 of course we couldn't expect you to know what nfic is all about - I should hope not, in fact. Those responding to you are bearing that in mind.

But you also need to bear that in mind! You haven't read any nfic, so try not to jump to conclusions about what it's like or assume that it has to be something like a narrative representation of something you get in email; that it has to be 'disgusting'.

What those who've replied so far have told you is that nfic stories in this fandom - we make no claim for anywhere else - portray a loving, romantic, sensual and sexual relationship between two people who love each other. Whether or not they're married at that point in the story, at the end of the story they end up a couple, and faithful to each other. And that is entirely in the spirit of Lois and Clark the series.

The TV series didn't hide from us the fact that, in seasons 3 and 4, Lois and Clark were sexually attracted to each other. They almost made love in Virtually Destroyed and Super Mann. We saw them in bed together many times in season 4, and even on the kitchen floor in Faster than a Speeding Vixen. For those readers who enjoy reading it, for those writers who like writing it, nfic simply fills in some of those scenes and others like them. It's not as if anyone chooses to go off and write something completely out of character for either Clark or Lois.

Edit: I've just seen that you posted while I was still composing this, Julie. Again, without having read any nfic you wouldn't know this, but actually very little of the nfic in this fandom is graphic. We are much more concerned with the emotions involved than in explicit, step-by-step explanations of the actions involved.

Yes, if you go into any bookshop or supermarket and pick up any of the bestselling women's fiction around - authors such as Nora Roberts, Barbara Delinsky, Jude Deveraux and many others - you will find scenes no less explicit than those in nfic stories. And those love-scenes will mostly not be as part of a committed, faithful relationship. Yet does anyone call books like those pornographic? There are love-scenes in many films, usually those rated above PG-13 (in the UK there is a 15 rating, which most of those sort of films would get) - are those considered pornographic? Not at all.

You don't want to read nfic, Julie: that's quite all right. That's your decision and everyone who has responded to you respects it. If, once you're older, you get curious enough to take a look and see what it's really like, and you would then like to discuss it from the perspective of knowledge, then we'd be pleased to hear what you have to say.


Wendy

Okay, you are all right, I really shouldn't have jumped to conclusions.
Maybe I'll find it less disturbing and more romantic when I'm older *feels like a baby*

I apologize if I hurt anyone. I can assume that nfic is not that different from PG13 stories, except for the more descriptive love scenes. And I never meant (even if I kinda did) to compare nfic to pornography.

Julie

I always respond to this one, Tank, with I don't either. Need? I doubt it. I need air to breathe, food to eat, but I doubt any author needs to write nfic. Or fanfic come to that.

OTOH - do you have to need something to enjoy doing it? I don't need chocolate either, but it's darned good to eat. So I tend to eat it.

So, I'd conclude - need? Nah. Do it just because it's fun? Sure!

Julie, I think you might find that things are very different in nfic than you imagine them to be and it seems clear to me from reading your posts that you're slightly confusing the porn sites and suchlike with nfic. But that's okay - it's an easy mistake to make when you have no other reference to compare it to, so I don't think you should feel dumb for making it at all!

Back when I first joined the fandom, I assumed nfic was what I knew of it years previously. Then nfic meant slash fic - Kirk and Spock fanfic written by Trek fans in which they had a gay relationship. That wasn't at all to my taste and although I knew that much of it was very well written, I hadn't read much.

Given that, I wasn't interested in reading nfic either ...until one day I accidentally stumbled over Menolly's nfic LNC stories on the net while looking for fanfic and was blown away by the sensual, beautiful, waffy and humourous depiction in her stories of our heroes in love and loving each other. I was amazed. Nfic had sure changed some since my day. I had never imagined nfic was like this! Shortly after that I found other great LNC nfic writers and never looked back.

Now, I'm not at all saying here, "Hey, try it out, you'll love it!" because you may not. It may not be to your taste at all and if you never try it out - that's entirely your choice. Stick with what you like - life's too short for anything else. I only offer it up as an example of how I too misjudged the genre to begin with. I'm sure others have too. So you're not alone.

LabRat

My comment on 'I don't see why it's needed' is totally based on a personal opinion that general nfic content doesn't really add to a story. Granted this comes from a person who doesn't read nfic so it can be said I don't know what I'm talking about.

I do have to say, though, that I am vehemently opposed to censorship of most kinds and feel that if people want an nfic site to play with they should be able to have it. So, as I said originally; It doesn't matter to me how the nfic stories are posted since it won't concern me.

Tank (who actually only finds nfic unneccessary while he finds the inclusion of babies and young children in a story disgusting)

As a new writer who is deep in the throes of learning how to distinguish "nfic" from "pgfic" (don't you laugh, Wendy!), I can say that at least in this fandom, the nfic is very gentle. In fact, I am somewhat paranoid about posting anything I would rate above a low PG on the pgfic boards as I wouldn't want to cross over the line inadvertantly - something that I have done during my learning curve.

But in no way would I ever label anything in the nfic boards as pornographic. Yes, some writers may get more graphic than others, but I have yet to read a single Lois and Clark nfic that I would in any way describe as distasteful. Always these characters have been shown in a loving, committed relationship just as they had been on the show.

As a writer, one of the aspects of Lois and Clark's relationship that inspires and intrigues me is the amazing chemistry they had between each other. However, because of the nature of the family-oriented show, I felt a lot of this chemisty had to be "ignored" so to speak. Through nfic, I can both read and write about it to whatever level makes me feel comfortable.

If I feel that I need to have an open-end as to what I can write to tell my story effectively, I will write it as an nfic, then convert it to PG. It would be very interesting to me to have a non-nfic reader (who is of legal age), read the two versions side by side and tell me if they really feel that the nfic part adds absolutely nothing to the story - doesn't help with expressing emotions or mood. It may be the case that the stuff that pushes the story into nfic range is really unnecessary.

Of course, to each his own, and I would never try to convince anyone to read something that made him or her feel uncomfortable. One of the nicest things about this particular fandom is our willingness to accept these different preferences and accomodate them accordingly. Because I would love for everyone to read my stories and offer me feedback, I will always take the time to convert an nfic to PG, and if not post it on the pg boards, at least send it to the archive.

It's kind of like leaving the meat out of the lasagna for the vegetarians in the crowd <g>! Both versions can be just as tasty.

Lynn

Yep, just to throw my two cents in, it's all about preference. I was 15 when I started reading fanfic. I'd heard a word or two about nfic and was midly curious. Now that I'm old enough in this particular fandom to actually read it (I'm 19), I've found that it doesn't add anything to the story for me. If people want to write it, that's fine. It's just right up there with some of the other genres in fanfic that I don't prefer as much. Oh yeah, one more thing. I don't recommend romance novels if you ever want a feel for nfic in general. I totally threw away the one my aunt got me last year. It was completely over the top compared to what people write here. I have to say it was the first and last one I read...and I only got through five chapters. :p

JD