Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic What kind of consequences for this bad behavior?

I just wanted to see what you guys think about something that happened to me today. Mind you I'm not a parent, but I have worked with behaviorally challenged youth.

I was visiting my cousin and her grandson (whom she has custody of) lost his temper. I should mention that he is 12 and that this has been an ongoing problem. I'm not sure what he lost his temper about as I was in the house. But he broke the window out of my car. Now I heard people saying that he broke my window and thought I must be hearing things. And then when I finally learned the truth, I was thinking, 'Oh, it's just a little hole. It couldn't be that bad.' I walked out to my car to find the entire back window broken out. This 12 year old is on the small average size for his age so he must have been really mad.

But this is what I'm having trouble understanding. His grandmother did not think he should be given any consequences because he was upset and was crying and "didn't mean it". He was banned from the Easter egg hunt (by his aunt who was the one in charge of it) and his grandmother thought that was enough. His aunt suggested he lose his 4-wheeler rights for at least 2 weeks. His grandmother said absolutely not because that punishment was too severe.

His grandmother did make him apologize to me, but for the first try he said he didn't want to. She looked at me expectantly as if that should be it, but I told him that I expected an apology. He did apologize later. I appreciate the apology, but I don't get the attitude of him not getting further consequences. I mean, if anyone else had done that, the police would have been called. (That's what his aunt wanted to do.)

What would you do? His aunt thought I was awfully calm (but then, as I said, I have worked with kids with behavioral problems). Oh, I need to make it clear that this was intentional. No, I don't think he meant to break the window, but he was hitting it with some as yet undetermined object (at least on my part). In my mind, that, in and of itself, is unacceptable behavior.

And, yes, my cousin is paying for the repair.

Hi Nancy,

Assuming that the 12 year old is compos mentis and does not have a disability which precludes impulse control or emotional control, and assuming that there were no other extenuating circumstances, he should, IMHO, have been disciplined much more severely than he was. At bare minimum, his allowance (assuming he has one) should have been withheld for at least two months (and given to you as compensation for the hassles of having to deal with a broken window) and he should have been grounded for a couple of weeks.

Of course, it's always a lot easier to come up with appropriate discipline for other people's kids than for one's own. (That's doubly true for me -- since I am the mom of a child with severe autism and ADHD, who genuinely DOES have difficulty with impulse control and who is almost nonverbal -- and hence can't talk through his emotions.) And the bottom line is that what I think in this case really doesn't matter a lot, since I doubt anyone in a position to discipline the child would listen to me, anyway. (And after all, why should they?)

But since you asked our opinions on the matter, I've given you my two cents worth.

I hope the repair is handled quickly, competently, and smoothly.

edit: Oh, And I think it goes without saying that he should have given you an apology. And if he had refused to give you one in person, then he should have been made to write you an apology.

Joy,
Lynn

Me, too. It's raining and I don't think plastic will hold back another hail storm. I just hope we don't have another one as we did early this morning.

He does have problems controlling his anger and is likely bipolar (his grandmother will not admit that to me), but he is able to attend regular school and is able to be age appropriate except in situations where he doesn't get his way.

If he may have a disability which impacts his ability to control his emotions, I would say that the situation is more complex. I think the goal -- for all children -- should be to do whatever is necessary and appropriate to reduce the likelihood of improper behaviour occurring in the future. For some kids in some circumstances, that is meting out punishment. But for other kids and/or other circumstances, there are more effective options. For a child who may have a disability, those options should (IMHO) include a visit to a good neurologist and/or psychiatrist to determine whether the behaviour is due to a disability and, if it is, how best to address the situation. Perhaps the child would benefit from behaviour modification therapy and/or a medicinal approach.

I can imagine how what I just wrote might raise some hackles, so I want to add a few disclaimers and clarifications.

Let me be perfectly clear here -- I am *not* suggesting drugging up every child who misbehaves! I am very slow on the trigger finger when it comes to prescribing medicines, especially ones powerful enough to have mind-altering effects. That being said, they are warranted under certain circumstances. And again, I'll bring in my own situation: I resisted putting my son on Risperadol for a long time, but when his neurologist, his teacher, and his school's behavioural psychologist all suggested that I do so, I reluctantly agreed to give it a try. It has done wonders for him. He (and hence I as well) used to get at most three hours of sleep a night, but he is now able to sleep through the night. He used to eat so poorly that he needed to have life-sustaining formula pumped into him overnight through a surgically implanted feeding tube; he is now eating well enough not to need his overnight enteral pump feeds. (An increased appetite is one of the 'negative' side effects of the medicine -- but for Andy it is a Godsend.) He used to have so much energy that he literally could not sit still for more than two minutes or so at a time. (No exaggeration here.) He is now calm enough to be able to focus on an activity long enough to actually learn from his teacher.

I am also not suggesting that every child who has a bad temper has a disability; hence my suggestion to consult a specialist or two. And again, to take a personal example: My son does have difficulty controlling his impulses, and not just with respect to his temper. For example, when he wishes to give someone a hug, he will do so...Most of the time, this is an endearing trait, but it can result in embarrassing or dangerous situations -- for example, when he stops in the middle of a busy parking lot to give me a hug, or when he hugs a stranger in a park. (I've taken to holding his hand whenever we get near anyone while on a walk. And of course I talk to him about appropriate and inappropriate situations for hugging, but I'm not sure how much he understands, since he doesn't communicate well enough to ask me questions or comment on what I say.) I could list many other examples, but I think I have made my point -- poor impulse control is a more sweeping condition than just having a nasty temper.

Nor am I suggesting that a child with a disability should be allowed to run amok. But if a child does have a disability, the caregivers (both at home and in school) might well be able to make accommodations and to work with the child to help them deal with their anger in a more socially acceptable way. For example, the child might be given a punching bag and told that when he is angry, he should take out his aggression by hitting the bag. (This might not be a bad suggestion even if the child is not given a disability label.) Or if the child has sensory processing issues and has tantrums in loud or active environments because he feels his senses are being assaulted, the family should not expect the child to behave well while being dragged around for hours in a crowded mall or at a fireworks display. The child's needs should be accommodated by not placing the child in such an uncomfortable situation.

Now back to your specific question: It might well be beneficial for his grandmother to find out whether the boy does have bipolar disorder, oppositional defiance disorder, or some other disorder which contributed to his behaviour and to learn how to help him deal constructively with his condition. But even if he does have such a disorder, his breaking your window does need to be addressed. IMHO, either way, he should apologize to you and should have his next two months' allowance given to you. I do not see that as punishment so much as teaching him that he needs to make reparations for the damage he has done. The grounding I suggested earlier I would consider punishment plain and simple, and that might not be appropriate should the boy have an emotional disorder.

And one final disclaimer: I am *not* an expert in any field related to behaviour or neurological disorders. I'm just speaking as a layperson and as the mother of a child who does have several disabilities.

Whew...This post is longer than many of my stories! I'll get down off my soapbox now...

Joy,
Lynn

I'll say upfront that I have very little experience with children with disabilities. But regardless of disability, I believe that parenting cannot be done unless you have one eye firmly on the future.

This time, it was a smashed car window. That is bad enough. But what if next time, it's a smaller child? Will 'he didn't mean it' be enough then?

I also believe that one of the cruellest things a parent/carer can do is to allow a child to believe the world works in a way that it doesn't.

The grandmother's actions have taught the child that deliberate damage of another's property is OK so long as he didn't mean it and is upset. He's probably also learned that a few tears can go a long way in wriggling out of trouble.

No - the world just doesn't work like that. The police and the courts are not going to respond like that. And tragically, a twelve year old smashing a window is only a few steps from a young man vandalising property. Or worse.

Apologies are good - but they don't get you out of that sort of trouble.

This was a perfect opportunity for the grandmother to make a very firm statement that this sort of behaviour is unacceptable. The actual consequence could vary according to the child - but it needs to be something that the child does not easily forget.

I should probably join Lynn and get down off the soapbox, too.

Corrina.

I have a 13 year old boy. And let me tell you, if he purposely did something like that, there would be major consequences.

I've raised and son and a daughter (girls can sometime be worse than boys in acting out) and have two grandsons.
The first thing is to assume the kid is normal and not give him any excuse to think otherwise. It sounds harsh, but kids are instinctively going to push the boundaries for any parent (or someone acting as a parent) unless they are firm. Vandalism should not be tolerated and should be dealt with firmly with consequences that mean something to the kid. "Time out" really isn't enough. A kid who hits other people's property with a bat will wind up hitting other people eventually.

Kids don't see consequences of their actions and it must be explained to them.

Neighbor boys broke the window in our house. We didn't discover it for a while, so there was no immediate repercussion. When finally confronted, the brothers said,"We were just throwing rocks into the street." I said, "The window was right in line with the street and rock ricocheted into the window. You have to think further than what you intend to hit." Their father had no response and finally sent the youngest of the brothers over to apologize. We paid for the window.

Kids have to learn the price of their actions. Kids that get a lot of love and affection don't tend to act out and break things or hurt animals. Those that do wind up doing bigger things because it gets them wanted attention, bad or good.
Artemis