Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic New Kind of Superman?

http://cnsnews.com/news/article/new-dark-and-brooding-superman-replaces

Personally, I think this version is going to flop. Every time they try to redo Superman into the new PC version, it doesn't seem to last. Somehow, I don't see Superman in the same light as the dark and moody Batman of today. If these guys don't watch out all their superheroes are going to be interchangeable, personality-wise.

Nan

I am a huge admirer of J. Michael Straczynski -- I think that Babylon 5 is the best TV series ever created, bar none. (While I enjoy L&C tremendously, I must say that it lacks the depth, realism, continuity, character nuances and growth, and scope of B5.) All the same, I am not sanguine about the new direction of Superman.

I hope this is just a one-off graphic novel and not a more permanent revamping of the character. (There have been other one-off else world graphic novels -- e.g., Red Son, in which Clark's capsule cam down in the Soviet Union, and he was raised to embrace communism.) If this is just a one-off else-world story, it would probably make a riveting read, given its author. But if it is a complete, permanent (well, as permanent as anything is in the DC universe) overhaul of the character, then as far as I am concerned, Clark Kent died this month. I'll still enjoy his past exploits, but not his future ones.

Then again, I am not part of the demographic group which DC considers desirable, so they wouldn't care what I think...

Joy,
Lynn

This is a one off graphic novel exploring who and what a Superman might become if his upbringing had been more 'contemporary'.

It's simply another look at Superman whose beginnings have been twisted a bit.

In the old days we called them 'imaginary stories', then they called them 'elseworlds'.

Not unlike the original "Return of the Dark Knight", this story is not part of the currrent continuity. That's not to say that some parts of the story (if successful) that might resonate with the readership couldn't be incorportated in the continuity Superman in some form.

For now, it's just a different look at a different version of Superman.

Tank (who says there's a great deal of difference between the Lois and Clark of "Lois and Clark" vs. the Lois and Clark of "Smallvile", yet we can appreciate parts of both; neither of which have a lot in common with the comic book versions)

I wouldn't rule out a way to make it work but in my opinion Superman has to be "harmless" to be believable. I mean, if his power isn't self-limiting then a Bureau 39 or Lex Luthor is justified in fighting him.

Personal issues can make for great stories--the Tony Stark/Iron Man drinking arc, the Spiderman Harry Osborne heroin storylines are good examples. Batman is borderline, but a being as powerful as Superman would be a danger to everyone is he was "moody". He loses his temper and they call out the Army. (i.e. The Incredible Hulk) Then it's all fun and games until someone nukes Cleveland.

I haven't seen this version of Superman but most of us know that the nature of Superman changes over time.

In Action Comics #2, Superman "takes out" an enemy aircraft causing it to crash and kill the pilot. In AC #13 Superman is carrying a criminal from rooftop to rooftop. The man tries to stab Superman which causes Superman to drop him to his death on the street below. Superman's reaction is little more than, "He shouldn't have struggled and got what he deserved."

I've found that reading these original comics is eye-opening. Lois and Clark have the same names but are very different people than what I thought I knew.

As for this story, as I said, I haven't seen it. If there are valuable elements in this interpretation, they may seep into the mainstream. However, any change for a character with the history of Superman will happen slowly.

Bob

Wow, they totally got their idea from Anakin Skywalker... I mean, just LOOK at this pic and tell me I'm crazy.

Stephnachia, my first reaction when I saw that photo, before I realized what it was, was that it must be a publicity photo for the graphic novel -- perhaps to be used as the cover of a special edition.

Tank, thanks for relieving my mind about its one-off status. Knowing that it is only an elseworld one-off, I will eventually not only read it, but also, given the author, probably enjoy it.

Bob, I've been spending some of my free time over the past few months reading the old comics, listening to the old radio show, watching the old movie serials and TV show, and generally trying to immerse myself in the greater Superman universe. I was astonished at the changes that Lois and Clark (in both his personae) have undergone over the years. Superman as originally depicted strikes me as a bully who delights in manhandling the bad guys and who isn't even too concerned if innocents get injured along the way. Hardly the Boy Scout which he has become and whom we all know and love.

Joy,
Lynn

Just found this article regarding the topic and like the synopsis. In a world where androgeny runs rampant and men don't fight for women anymore, DC is looking to make Superman fit in, which would explain the pencil necks chosen for superman returns and smallville. Whatever; I've got 300 and the mercenary on Firefly to keep me happy.

Lynn wrote:

Lynn, we have to remember that the world of 1939 was much different. Japan was embroiled in a long war in China (started in 1931 by the Japanese militarists in the army), Poland was about to be crushed and divided between Germany and the Soviet Union, Italy had invaded Ethiopia, France was gearing up to fight the Great War all over again, Spain had just gone through a bloody civil war which left the country barely intact and ruled by a dictator, and European Jews - along with other "undesirables" - saw the beginning of the concentration camp system which would kill millions of people over the next six years.

Have you read the story of Superman saving the innocent woman about to be executed for murder? He lacked proof of the guilt of the actual killer, so he waited until the day of the execution to break into the real killer's home and force her to write a full confession, then dropped her off at a police station and ran to the governor's home (because he didn't start off flying) and woke him up to have him write a stay of execution, then when the phone to the prison didn't work he ran to the prison and broke in and stopped the execution, gave the governor's pardon to the warden, and carried the innocent woman to her home. (The innocent woman was not Lois Lane, by the way.)

None of that would work in a story today. When Clark broke Lois out of jail in L&C, there was a hue and cry for their capture. Contrast that with Texas Ranger Frank Hamer's ambush of Clyde Barrow and Bonnie Parker in 1934, just five years before Superman's debut. No one called for prosecution of Hamer and his deputies for gunning down Bonnie and Clyde, but that's what they did. Different times, different mores. And despite the Barrow gang's status as folk heroes among the Depression-era poor people, even their families accepted their violent ends as something they'd brought on themselves.

Superman has changed through the years, but he's always reflected an ideal of truth and justice. In 1939, it wasn't unreasonable to consider the bad guys as targets for law enforcement gunnery practice, especially if the bad guys killed people during the commission of their other crimes. This mindset can be seen by viewing some of the serious movies of the day and by reading the gritty crime novels then popular. Or you can read some of the Dick Tracy comics from that day. Now there were some shoot-em-up cops!

By the standards of today, the Superman of 1939 would be tried for multiple crimes and probably convicted. But we can't try him by our standards or by our mores. We have to recognize that society changes, and that Superman has changed to reflect that society. I, too, prefer the Boy Scout version of Superman in L&C, but I can also read those old comic stories and see how people viewed the concepts of truth and justice way back then.

I agree wholeheartedly, Terry. If I apologize if I led you or others to believe differently.

I have indeed read the story you mentioned. IIRC, it was one of the first Superman stories published. I did enjoy reading it -- but in the same way that I am enjoying all of the other early strips (as well as the radio series, and movie and TV shows) -- as a period piece. It serves as a reminder of just how far we have come as a society -- in some ways for better and in some ways for worse -- since Superman first came onto the scene.

Joy,
Lynn

And as I commented on another thread a while ago, the old Fleisher Superman cartoons had Superman killing Japanese soldiers and sailors by the hundreds.

And in the early strips he routinely forced confessions from people by doing things like dropping them from heights and catching them at the last second.

Also, the radio show had him stealing a statue from a "primitive tribe" (I don't recall which one). It was valuable and the proceeds were to fund important medical research, but -- by today's standards -- his actions were nevertheless undeniably theft. When the tribesmen tried to reclaim what was rightfully theirs, Superman fought "the savages" off. I have learned to skip episodes which involve "primitive" cultures because Superman and the other main characters invariably treat the "natives" in a cringe-worthy manner.

Joy,
Lynn

Actually, he did that in L&C, too. Remember Dillinger?

Michael

Yep. And I remember thinking how out of character that was in the series. And even then, he did it only in extenuating circumstances: He thought he could never be Clark Kent again (i.e., he thought that his life as he knew it was over) and other peoples' lives were on the line. To say he was undergoing an emotional strain would be an understatement. I can't imagine "our" Clark doing anything like that under normal circumstances. Although we didn't see him doing so, I could easily imagine him angsting about his actions once things settled down again.

In the strips, he did this sort of thing far more casually and routinely in the early strips. I can not see early-strip-Superman thinking twice about such actions.

Joy,
Lynn

I read the graphic novel and it's actually pretty good. I didn't like everything, but I thought they handled several things very well. I'm of two minds regarding how they depicted Clark's decision to become Superman. On one hand I like a Superman who is simply good and wants to give back, but on the other I have to agree that the novel's depiction of Clark just wanting to "fit in" and have a normal life was more realistic. And he was still "good". He still had those values, but he wanted to make sure his mom was taken care of and there's nothing wrong with being "selfish" in that he just wanted to be happy himself. In the end the "goodness" of his nature wins out though because he can't just stand by and do nothing and let people be hurt. And really, I kind of liked that. He becomes Superman not because he wants to be a hero, but simply because something has to be done and only he can do it and he doesn't duck the responsibility or whine about it.

Throughout the book I thought they tried to be true to his core values and I even liked how they depicted his decision to get a job at The Planet.

I wasn't real thrilled with Lois and Jimmy though. Not that there was anything wrong with them, just that they seemed a bit flat as characters and weren't used effectively. All in all though it was a good read.

Do you think some of the changes we're seeing in our Super heroes are merely a sign of the times? Many people have mentioned in this thread the differences between attititudes in the 30s versus the 90s and those points ring true.

I grew up on Batman, the 60s TV show, animated Superfriends and the George Reeves Superman. Even the Christopher Reeves' Superman movies. Super heroes were always portrayed as the good guys.

That image has been changing. Look at the Batman movies which present him as rather ambiguous. Look at the show Heroes where good guys become bad guys depending on the week. What about the movie Watchman? This new incarnation of Superman seems to join that trend.

I must admit I don't read comics. Has this type of trend been happening there as well?