Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic So Farewell Then, Doctor Ten (Who spoilers)

Enjoyed it a lot, just one question

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What the heck are they thinking marrying Martha off to Mickey???

Just a reminder that spoiler space doesn't prevent the spoilers from showing at the top of the "today's active topics" page. The second part of The End of Time doesn't air in the U.S. until tomorrow. Between now and then, I will hope that you're pulling my leg!

I've never even noticed that we had an active topic page and have never used it, so had no idea that could happen. Thanks for the headsup. I'll make sure to check that in the future for threads which contain spoilers in the first post.

LabRat

Well.

I've just watched both parts of TEOT and have to say that that has been the most enjoyable episode of DW that I've seen so far. Loved every moment of it. (Well, most of. Could have done without the Star Wars moment.... :rolleyes: )

Even if the gits did make me cry.

BTW, I imagine that by this point the people of Earth are really, really, really, really ticked off at aliens coming along and ruining their Christmas.

LabRat

Hadn't noticed it either - sorry!

Thanks for posting "spoilers" in the topic line. I very carefully did NOT read this topic until after the episode aired.

I didn't like the depiction of the Time Lords--I thought it was overly dramatic--but I'm in the minority in this household. I thought the episode was otherwise pretty good. The ending made me start to cry.

However, I will probably never be able to accept David Tennant in any other role, because I won't be able to forgive him for leaving the show. Does anyone else remember when Kirstie Alley ruined the Star Trek movies by not returning for number 3?

Just finished watching both parts.

First, I thought Martha and Mickey was a bit out of left field but they did look good together. The beard made Mickey look more mature, and that helped.

Second, the episode itself: eh. I can't say I loved it. The first half dragged a bit, the Time Lords felt heavy-handed, and the way Ten was killed was underwhelming, to say the least. The Doctor has solved issues a lot more complex than that.

I liked the scene in the cafe with the Doctor and Wilf. I enjoyed Ten's visits to his old companions, especially Rose and Donna. The visit to Joan Redfern's granddaughter was a lovely touch. I like speculating that the female Time Lord was the Doctor's mother. And I love Ten's final line, and I wonder if, for a moment, David Tennant was thinking it, too.

Just one thing. As a casual viewer of the show, I tend to miss many of the nuances and references and I gave up watching Torchwood after S1.

So...why were Martha and Mickey fighting Sontarans? And where? How did they end up there?

LabRat (who also thinks it was the Doctor's Mum )

I came away from the episode with mixed feelings. Yes, I felt myself tearing up at the end. And, yes, there were some wonderful moments, most of which people have pointed out.

However, I felt that the pacing of the episode was wrong. The length of time between the doctor starting and finishing to regenerate was too long compared to the rest of the episode.

While I liked the idea that the doctor was able to say goodbye to the people he'd become attached to before he left, I felt jolted by this. I felt as though this was Russel T Davies saying goodbye and not the Doctor.

I am a casual watcher of the series. I like it, will make an effort to see the episodes if I'm around, but don't usually bother rewatching. As a result, I had to struggle to remind myself who some of the people were. I didn't know / remember who Alonso was until someone reminded me. Were we supposed to be as moved / shocked at the mention of Jeremy Noble's name as Donna's mum was? Are we supposed to know who he is?

More seriously, and on top of all that, I also feel as though I'm missing some of the background I need to understand the whole time war / timelord storyline. Yes, this has been mentioned before, since 2005. But did viewers ever see the war actually happen in earlier series?

Am I supposed to know more about the time war than I do? Was the storyline obscure in places, or was that me? Do diehard fans know what is going on? Am I handicapped by not being one?

Was that woman his mother? I didn't think so. (I'm not going to embarrass myself by putting my ideas down here.) Are we supposed to know? Were we supposed to recognise her?

I'm going to miss David Tennant in this role. I think he's made a great doctor. I just don't think that this was a great episode with which to end his stint in the role.

Despite those tears the storyline managed to wrench out of me, I think back on the episode and feel rather flat. Given my overall reaction to the show, I also feel rather astonished that I've felt moved enough to write this post.

Krissie

I simply surmised that Jeremy was Donna's deceased father and Sylvia's late husband. I'm not aware that there was any greater significance to his involvement than that - although I'm willing to be corrected by the diehards, who'll have been paying attention much more than this casual viewer.

I think it was simply intended to be a poignant moment.

From Wiki:

I didn't recognise Alsonso as having been on the Titanic previously either, until later, but I didn't think it mattered much in the context of the scene whether I did or didn't. It would have provided an extra nuance for diehards, of course. But it's a small difference, I think.

I had another question though for the diehards - and I've promptly forgotten it. Oh, I know! In the cafe scene with Wilf, I particularly liked the Doctor heavily implying that he shouldn't be alone. That he needed a companion to keep him grounded and on the right path. I liked the idea that the companions aren't just tourists along for the ride, just baggage, but are an essential part of the Doctor and that he suffers without one.

Bearing that in mind, I'm curious now. Has the Doctor travelled alone, companion-less before in the show's history? Or is DT's Doctor the first to do so?

LabRat

I love having BBC America in HD. But better than that, I love having BBCA onDemand. I don't think I watched it in HD this morning, but I was able to watch it in the bedroom instead of disturbing my Ten-hating husband who was sleeping on the couch in the living room, where I had recorded it on the DVR.

As far as I know, no. At least, not the conclusion of the war. I'm guessing that most of the appearance of the Daleks in the previous series were probably related to the war. But the end of the war and the locking of the Time Lords and Daleks in the time bubble was off-screen. It was referenced heavily when Nine was introduced. (I only started watching with Nine, so I'm not too sure of the previous history.)

The last 15 minutes of the episode had me blubbering, I'm unashamed to admit. It was nice to see all of the old companions again. Martha and Mickey together does baffle me a bit, but Mickey has grown up since his first appearances. Rose confused me until he asked the year. It was still sad.

The hubby walked into the bedroom just as Ten was regenerating. (Did he know he was going to regenerate, or did he just think he was going to die?) He stood there and watched, and once it was done, asked who that was. "The new Doctor." "UGH! Where does the BBC find these guys?" Okay, it was a bit harsher than that, but I guess this means he won't be giving Eleven a chance with me. He never did like Ten because he looked too squirrely to be the Doctor. He says this one just looks too young and not at all Doctor-ish. The pictures I've seen of Eleven just makes me fear for the character in general.

A few comments from a friend who watched it live last night helped me remember Alonso ("hahaha the titanic dude"). Thanks, MrsMosley, for reminding me of who the grandmother with the diary was. I thought it was going way back and referencing Susan, the Doctor's grand-daughter.

I thought the goodbyes went on too long, too, but I also wondered if he thought he was going to die rather than be regenerated. I did like the comment, "I still have legs!"

That was exactly my reaction. My comment at the time was, "You did it to yourself, David Tennant!"

I don't know why I'm chiming in on this thread. I don't get BBC America so I haven't seen the episode in question.

But I do have to say that, while David Tenant was far from my favorite Doctor, he wasn't the worst either.

I never saw Sylvester McCoy, but I think he could have been one of the worst.

My favorites were Tom Baker and Jon Pertwee, but I think my opinion was probably colored by the fact that those two shared the best companion that Doctor Who ever had... Sarah Jane Smith.

If someone like Syfy ever brings this episode to air, I'll probably what it, but I doubt it will have much impact on me.

Tank (who, since he's seen Torchwood, finds Dr. Who to be lacking)

While I had some issues with a few things and did come away scratching my head in a bit of confusion over a couple things, overall, I thought it was a good end to the 10th doctor era. Of course, I'd have preferred it not have to end in the first place! I am SO going to miss him. *sniffs*

Personally, I LOVED that Mickey and Martha are together. I'm not sure what happened to Tom, but frankly I don't care. Mickey and Martha have both been through so much, suffered the same kinds of rejection because of the Doctor and Rose, and let's face it, who else can they ever really talk to about all the things they have seen and experienced?

While I didn't love the way they brought him back, I do love the way they ended up using the Master. That whole scene toward the end with the gun and the whole move out of the way thing was, in my opinion, amazing. I'm not sure about what has happened to the Master now though. Is he dead? Is he still out there? I would hate for him to be forever gone. After all, as the Doctor said, what would he be without the Master?

I was a bit confused by the woman who kept showing up everywhere and the whole weeping angel bit. I too kind of thought maybe it was his mother. I just wish we had been told.

I kind of had a feeling from the beginning of the 2 episodes that it would be Wilf that would be the end for the Doctor, but still, when it happened...when he started knocking...I just LOST it. I think I bawled from there till the end of the episode. When I saw my mom a few minutes after watching it, she took a look at my tear streaked face and I think thought someone had died. (Someone real I mean, not the Doctor).

My only true complaint with the episode would have to be that Donna doesn't get her memory back. I mean, I guess in a way I understand why she didn't, but I still don't like it. She's not the same person she was when she was with the Doctor, and I think that is a tragedy. I'm good with her moving on and getting married and all that, but I'd have liked to see her remember.

I thought the end with Rose and the Ood in the snow was totally heartbreaking. I hated that he had to go through his dying and regeneration alone, so I'm glad that the Ood was at least sort of there with him.

I'm not sure yet what I think of Matt Smith. I'm certainly going to give him a chance. DT is going to be a hard act to follow, but I hope he'll bring his own special something to the Doctor. Not crazy about the whole "geronimo" thing, and I hope that's not going to be the new "Allons-y." It's just not as original. However, the preview for next season does look pretty good, so I live in hope.

I didn't see the whole thing because I felt left behind and didn't get a lot of references. This thread has cleared up a lot of that. Who did Donna marry? She was in a wedding dress in the last scenes as Ten was saying goodby and gave the lottery ticket as a wedding gift.

Artemis

I can't remember the name of the guy that Donna married, but he was a completely new character. Wilf explained that they were engaged but that they had low-level jobs and were not ever going to have any money. (Sorry, I didn't catch all the details, I was trying to watch and cook dinner at the same time.) So the lottery ticket was meant to ensure a good life for Donna with her new husband; she didn't realize it, but of course it was going to win, and as she said it was a "triple rollover." Ten said, "Do you think I wouldn't take care of my best friend?" (or something like that), when Donna's memory started to come back, and the lottery ticket showed that he was still taking care of her.

I, too, assumed that the mysterious Time Lady was the Doctor's mother, but the more logical theories I've seen online are that she was either Romana or Susan, the Doctor's granddaughter. Many people found significance in the Doctor's glance to Sylvia and/or Donna when Wilf asked who she was, thus implying it could be Susan. But when we last saw Romana (with Four?), she was high up in the Time Lord leadership, and many people assumed she was the President during the Time War. So either would make sense.

Donna's husband's name, I believe, was Sean. Wilf said he was a good guy, really sweet, but worked for minimum wage and would never be able to provide a lot financially. Thus I not only liked that the Doctor took care of Donna by giving her the lottery ticket, but found it incredibly touching that he did so by borrowing money from Donna's late father. The fact that he was able to give Sylvia such a wonderful story about her husband -- that he was kind and generous to a stranger in need, and this was in many ways "his" present to his daughter -- was a wonderful gift.

Count me among those who liked Martha and Mickey being married. I was just happy Mickey was back saving the world -- he is a true hero, IMO, moving from a kid too scared to travel with the Doctor to one who came into his own and saved the universe (two universes!) many times over -- so I'm totally fine with them being together. I don't know whether they are supposed to have taken over Torchwood or if they are back working for UNIT the way Martha was in S4, but I think the universe is in infinitely safer hands with them at the helm than it was with Jack and his crew. <g>

As for Eleven, I'm going to give him a chance. He's not my type, but I keep remembering how upset I was when Chris Eccelston left as Nine, and how I kept insisting that NO ONE could EVER possibly be as good ... then I promptly fell head over heels for Ten in his very first episode.

I don't expect to ship Eleven and his new companion (though I think she's absolutely beautiful!), but as long as Moffet leaves Ten II and Rose to their happily ever after in Pete's World, I'll be fine.

Kathy

This could have been taking place at any point in the future, and there is no explanation for it anywhere. I'm guessing it was just to show that they are still out there saving the world. The Sontaran is a familiar enemy that Martha has come up against before, so that may be why RTD chose to use it in that scene.

Kathy, I believe that Martha mentioned something to Mickey about how he had convinced her to "go freelance." I'm assuming this means they are not working for Torchwood or UNIT, but are off on their own defending the world. Personally, I like that idea.

I was pondering over the Mickey/Martha situation today on my way home from work, and I had to giggle a little when I realized that it's once again "Smith and Jones" just like in the beginning of S3.

Being just a casual watcher, I'm missing the connection here - what's the connection between Sylvia/Donna and Susan? This sounds intriguing. I wondered when watching if there was some significance to her saying 'I was lost long ago...' - does that have any relevance? I know zip about Romana or Susan, so probably not.

Donna was disappointing for me, too. They've really boxed themselves into a corner there, though. Obviously she couldn't recover her memory or there'd be no reason whatsoever that she wouldn't continue travelling with the Doctor. Like Rose before her, I doubt a fiancé would be enough to keep her on Earth and in the mundane world. And certainly not a minimum wage job.

They did try to imply, I think, here and there that she had changed, that there was something more in her subconscious that retained a memory of what she'd become with the Doctor, but really I didn't see much evidence of it and that was sad. But, still, she got a slightly better ending this time than last, so I just have to be content, I guess, with that.

Part of the my problem with Eleven is that I don't think he's very good-looking. He has a weird face. Shallow, I know, but, you know, sue me. But I've seen the trailer for 2010 and have to admit it all looks interesting. I like the look of the new companion and I'm glad they've brought one in. The lack of a companion was something that really disappointed me through the specials, it has to be said.

LabRat (who's been inspired to break out the S1-4 boxset she treated herself to for Christmas and has been thoroughly enjoying S1 again so far....)

Just that by looking at Donna, who is Wilf's granddaughter, he may have been implying that the woman was his own granddaughter. Kind of ties in with the whole "I'm older than you" conversation.

And btw, may I just add that I love that Wilf got to be an official companion by spending a whole story arc traveling with the Doctor. He totally deserved it!

Kathy