Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic The Battle of Malmö

I can't resist this. Just because Artemis said that Sweden and Norway have been conquered by Denmark, I feel the need to insist that Sweden has never been really conqured by Denmark, although Sweden and Denmark (and Norway) were joined in a union, the Union of Kalmar, between 1397 and 1523.

But Sweden and Denmark have often been at war with each other.



Here comes the Danish armada, on its way to attacking Sweden!

During the 17th century there was a particularly large number of battles between Denmark and Sweden. One of them was the battle of Malmö in 1677. I can't find a picture of it, but this is a map of Malmö from 1652, twenty-five years before the Battle of Malmö:

Map of Malmö from 1652

Would you believe that in 1652, Malmö belonged to Denmark? Malmö is situated in the very southernmost part of Sweden, and for centuries this part of Scandinavia belonged to Denmark. (And by the way, the southernmost region of Sweden is called Skåne, or Scania in English. But did you know that the word Scandinavia is derived from Scania? Scania was the first part of Scandinavia that the more southerly Europeans from the European continent encountered when they ventured north, and so they named all of Scandinavia after Scania!)

Here is a link showing Sweden in blue and yellow, as in the Swedish flag. But the southernmost part of Sweden is Skåne, Scania, colored red and yellow here as in the inofficial Scanian flag. You have to scroll down to see Skåne, or Scania.

Like I said, Malmö belonged to Denmark in 1652. In 1658 Sweden wrested Scania from Denmark, and Malmö became a part of Sweden. And then in 1677 the Danes came to Malmö to take it back. But the people of Malmö were not interested in more war, and to avoid that, they opposed the Danes. Malmö was surrounded by a wall and a canal, which you may be able to see on the map. In the upper left corner you can see the Castle of Malmö. This is what the Castle of Malmö looks like today:



Anyway, back to the map from 1652. To the upper right on the map you have the Eastern Gate of Malmö, and here is where the Battle of Malmö was fought back in 1677. The people of Malmö pushed the charging Danes into the canal and that way they defended their city!



The former Eastern Gate of Malmö, now called Drottningtorget (the Queen's Square).

Oh, and Malmö has grown quite a bit since 1652. I think there were almost certainly no more than 3,000 people in Malmö in 1652, probably less. Today the population is 300,000, and this is Malmö of today:



Here is a picture of an outdoor concert in Stortorget, the Large Square, of Malmö. You can see a statue of a king on a horse. The king is Karl X, the king who wrested Malmö from Denmark in 1658.

Ann

Nice presentation, Ann! Here's what wikipedia says about that time:
Then in 1905, Norway broke from Sweden, but there was no war.

Artemis

Just wanted to say that this topic is extremely interesting.

Very interesting. I love history. This made me think about the princess or queen that is from Australia, but darn if I can remember which country I'm thinking of and I don't have time to look it up right now. I'm thinking it's Denmark. Does anyone know?

Well, I made time. I hate it when I think of things but don't quite remember it all. Her Royal Highness The Crown Princess, Countess of Monpezat Mary Elizabeth of Denmark is indeed from Australia (and also had citizenship in the UK). Wiki noted that although she was Countess of Monpezat, she was not the Countess of Monpezat. Crown Princess of Denmark (Wiki)

Artemis, you said in a post in the thread that Iolanthe started that Denmark at this time was a great seafaring nation. And it most certainly was! It's almost hard to believe these days, when you see how tiny Denmark is now. But it used to be so powerful.



Denmark in Europe today, but Denmark used to be so powerful!

Take a look at another map:



Here you can see Denmark in the middle of the map, and there is a red line obviously showing somebody's itinerary. Let's follow this red line and see what parts of northern Europe have been controlled by Denmark!

We start at the red dot southwest of Copenhagen, right on the border between Germany and Poland. Did Denmark at times control the northern parts of Germany and Poland? But of course!

Now follow the line north from the red dot. Maybe you can see that the first stop is actually on an island in the Baltic Sea, south of Stockholm. This island is Gotland, Sweden's largest island. Has Denmark ever controlled it? You bet!



This is a famous Swedish painting showing how the Danish king Valdemar Atterdag forced the people of Visby, the largest city of Gotland, to pay taxes and tributes to him, after he occupied their island in 1361 and burnt down parts of their city.

The next stop on our itinerary is Stockholm, the capital of Sweden. Sweden was more-or-less controlled by the Danes during the era of the Union of Kalmar, 1397-1523, although Stockholm itself was only rarely under the sway of the Danes. But in 1520 the Danish king Christan II was made the king of Sweden, and the coronation took place in Stockholm. But Christian immediately accused parts of the Swedish nobility of treason and had them executed - the so-called Bloodbath of Stockholm - which led to opposition against Christian in Sweden and the War of Liberation in 1521-23, in which Sweden gained its independence from Denmark.

[img]http://www.historiska.se/ImageVault...th_480/height_480/ImageVaultHandler.aspx[/img]

The bloodbath of Stockholm in 1520.

After Stockholm we come to Helsinki in Finland and Saint Petersburg in Russia, which as far as I know have never been in any way controlled by Denmark. Ah, but our next stop is Tallin in Estonia!

Would you know that the name "Tallin" in itself supposedly means "the city of the Danes"? The Danish king Valdemar Sejr (whose name means "victory") went to Estonia in 1219 to christen the heathens there, along with his archbishop from Lund in Skåne (Scania), Anders Suneson. During a battle, the archbishop Anders Suneson kept praying with his arms lifted to the heavens. As long as he kept his arms heavenwards, the Danes were winning, but as soon as his arms got tired and started sagging, the Estonians started beating the Danes back. Some bishops and priests ran to the archbishop's aid and held his arms up high, and lo and behold! The Danish flag, the red and white "Dannebrogen", fell down from the sky, straight into the archbishop's waiting hands! And that is why the Danish flag is apparently still the oldest national flag in existence!



The Danish flag is falling from the sky!

Let's continue on our journey. Our next stop is Riga in Latvia, which may or may not have been controlled by the Danes. So let's go on to the next city, Gdansk in Poland. Has it ever been Danish? Oh, it has been so Danish that it must have been founded by the Danes, or else utterly controlled by them for a really long time. After all, "Gdansk" means "Danish city"!

Then we come to a couple of German cities, whose names I can't really decipher - surely that can't be Hamburg, so far to the north? - but at any rate, Denmark has certainly controlled much of northern Germany at various times in history.

Now we move on to Holland and Belgium, which have never been controlled by the Danes, as far as I know. But the final stop is England, and surely you know that Denmark controlled a relatively large part of England about a thousand years ago?



And as England was taken over by William the Conqueror at the Battle of Hastings in 1066, you must remember that William himself was a descendant of Danish Vikings who had left Denmark to settle in Brittany!

Finally, take a look at the first map I posted here. You can see Norway, due north of Denmark, which for centuries was controlled by Denmark. And in the top left corner you can see Iceland, which was controlled by Denmark from 1814 or so, although it is now independent. Still further to the north and west is the huge island called Greenland, which is still a Danish protectorate. And let's see... doesn't Denmark have some sort of claim to the Antarctic, too? Or is that Norway? Probably Norway...

Ann

Oh, and by the way... there are several impressive Danish castles paying tribute to the country's glorious (if somewhat warlike) past. This is Egeskov Castle:



And this is the splendid Frederiksborgs Castle:

Hi Ann:
Yes, Norway has a station in the Antarctic. Just outside Oslo, near the Kon-Tiki museum is a museum to the Norwegian Antarctic explorations.
You've shown how the Baltic region was a hot bed of political conquest by sea faring. Remember, these were all wooden ships in those days.
I can't find any listing of Danish activity in Antarctica. I think that was past their time of peak power.
We went to the fortress outside Helsinki (which was also part of Sweden in the past and even has street signs in both Swedish and Finnish) and had a tour and a history lesson. The Finns were defending from the Russians with strong sea power and were all prepared for battle by sea. The wily Russians waited until the sea froze over (and it is *really* cold to get sea water to freeze) and drove their cannon, carriages and horses to conquer Helsinki! The King surrendered in disgrace.
The Baltic was a hot bed of power wars until halfway through WWII.
BTW, in Norway we toured the Nazi fortifications there. Very interesting and very tiny and claustrophobic.
Also in Stockholm we saw the Vasa ship and toured the Skansen museum. The homes in Skansen were pretty much reproduced in America when the Scandinavians arrived just after our Civil War.
http://www.stockholmmuseum.com/
I'm glad others are interested in this topic.
Yes, I knew the Crown Prince of Denmark married an Australian. They have 2 (?) children now.
I get my royal info principally from Majesty magazine from England. http://www.majestymagazine.com/
We also toured Amelianborg palace in Copenhagen and stayed at a hotel near there.
Also check out the Oresund Bridge between Copenhagen and Malmo. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oresund_Bridge Where it disappears in the water, it becomes a tunnel.
The Dutch weren't slackers in seafaring either and they discovered oil! Check out the Netherland Antillies. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands_Antilles
We were just at Curacao and Aruba at the end of September.

Artemis

I'll say! At their heyday the Dutch were all over the globe, claiming and conquering land. This is a map of the Dutch Empire:

Dutch Empire

Clearly the Netherlands doesn't control all this land today. According to Wikipedia, the Netherlands was at its strongest in the second half of the 17th century. But just think of it, when the Dutch landed in North America the firstm thing they did was found New Amsterdam - a settlement which later became, yes indeed, the most important city in the world, New York!

The arguably greatest seafaring nation of all time and the greatest conqueror is England. Here is a map showing all the parts of the world that belonged to the British Empire at one time or another. Wow!

And it is of course the enormous strength of the British Empire that explains why English is the international language of today. (Yes, of course it also has to do with the enormous power and prestige of the United States, but the reason why English is the official language of the United States has to do with the British settlers there, doesn't it?) Another thing that has been exported by the Brits is capitalism. According to Wikipedia, it was really the Dutch that were the super-capitalists - they created the first stock exchange, for example - but when they started declining in the 18th century to be replaced by Great Britain as the seafaring and conquering nation per exellence, the British had already taken over the Dutch captialism and started exporting it all over the world.

Let's not forget the mighty empire founded by a much older seafaring nation:

The Roman Empire

Rome, of course! This is what Wikipedia says about Rome:

I would like to stress the importance of the Roman Empire for our alphabet, our Roman letters, but also for the global importance of the Christian religion. Most people know that the early Christians were persecuted in Rome, but it is far less known that this persecution was generally local and sporadic, and that the average Christians in early Rome didn't suffer because of their belief. Instead, the Christian movement in Rome grew and became ever more organized. A turning point came with Emperor Constantine in the early fourth century. Constantine supported the Christians in various ways, for example by promoting Christians to high ranking offices, granting tax exemptions to clergymen and building churches. Also Constantine summoned the Council of Nicea, a get-together of the most important Christian leaders of the time. According to Wikipedia, the Council agreed on the "Nicene Creed", a belief in "One Holy Catholic Apostolic Church." Then in 380, Christianity became the state religion of Rome.

Here is a map of the spread of Christianity. The dark blue patches show where Christianity was established by AD 325, and the light blue area show how far it had advanced by AD 600. Note how well the spread of Christianity follows the geographical areas that were controlled at one time or another by the Roman Empire.

It's interesting to contemplate how our culture has developed in response to the power and influences of seafaring nations. Personally, I also find it interesting to contemplate how tiny some of those former seafaring dominants are today - Denmark and the Netherlands are prime examples. But even Great Britain has certainly shrunk. And Italy is so far from its Roman Imperial glory.

Ann