Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Bummed Out

I'm kind of bummed out. Over the last couple of weeks I have immersed myself in the three seasons of Torchwood DVDs which I recently acquired, and I'm bummed out that they're done.

I know that the series has been mentioned before on these boards but I just wanted to add my own impression of Torchwood.

Overall I thought the show was excellant. For me, it was much more satisfying than Dr. Who in scope and execution of story.

Even with the inclusion of the occasional hokey monster, the character interaction was engaging.

As much as Jack provided some of the mystery and focus of the show, for me it was the Lois Lane of the group, Gwen Cooper, who was the touchstone of the series.

I know there has been talk of producing a 4th season, but honestly I can't see how it would work. Torchwood isn't like Dr. Who. You can't just add some new 'companions' to Jack and start all over again.

Torchwood had a much more group driven dynamic to it. But everyone is dead and Gwen is pregnant (which is worse than death). I'll miss how well that character personalities made the basic plotlines more fun.

I don't get BBC America, but there are always the DVDs. Unfortunately I have a tendancy to obsses over stuff, so when I find something I like, I devour it. So now, in less than two weeks, I have burned through all three seasons (and the special features) and now I have nothing left to watch.

I know that Torchwood fanfic exists but from what I've checked out, it seems like most of it is either not too well done, or more interested in sexual pairings of the characters. For me, it's like my dislike of nfic, I like the tension (and humor) between the characters, but I don't care to watch them jumping each other (whatever the pairing may be).

Just wanted to say that I found Torchwood a well done, enjoyable series and am bummed that it's now over.

Tank (who has to say that he considers Rhys the Jimmy Olsen of the show)

Actually Children of Earth was season 3.

There were also some radio plays, not sure how you'd get hold of them.

Before CofE it was rumoured that the next Torchwood season would include the characters Micky and Martha Jones from Dr. Who. No idea what became of that, but the show would be VERY different without Jack and Ianto etc. and with them.

O.K., I thought maybe CofE was Season 3, but wasn't sure. I recorded all the Dr. Who's that had Jack Harkness in them and some pieces of Torchwood made more sense then. I know Martha Jones, she even crossed over to Torchwood, but who is Micky?
BTW, John Barrowman came to the big Comic Con in San Diego this year just as a fan and was received very enthusiastically by the denizens. Maybe somebody will give him a job.
Thanks for the info.
Artemis

Sorry - my spelling mistake; Mickey Smith - formerly Rose Tyler's boyfriend in Dr. Who, later accompanied Rose and the Doctor in several episodes, stayed in an alternate world after they fought the cybermen there, eventually returned to our world to fight Davros and decided to stay.

Not a fan of Martha Jones. I'm not sure if it was that the actress wasn't up to the task or that the writers made her rather uninteresting. I never really 'warmed up' to her character.

Mickey Jones? You'e kidding, right? Even the feeble effort they made to give him a personality with the alternate version of himself, didn't make the character interesting, or engaging.

A new series with those two joining Captain Jack would be doomed from the start.

Gwen, with a child, couldn't work at Torchwood. A mother, by definition, is a different person. She has to be. The prime example is Jack's own daughter. No matter how many other children were saved by the sacrifice of her son, she cannot condone it. She will never forgive Jack for what he did... she can't. A mother will, and must, always put her child first in all things.

Gwen knows how dangerous working for Torchwood can be, and she would know that putting herself, and by extension, her family, into that continual jepordy would be unthinkable.

The only way to bring Gwen back would be through the tragedy of loss. Rhys, and the kid would have to go.

On another front, I keep having the scenario of an older, wiser, Lois Lane running into Gwen shortly after Jack's departure and the dissolution of Torchwood. You'd still be dealing with the aftermath of the Children of Earth storyline and the rumors of this mystery organization called Torchwood who managed to save the world from the betrayal of their governments.

Maybe someday...

Tank (who figures that with enough time Torchwood will be relagated to its proper place as a pleasant memory, like Lois and Clark has been)

Agreed. I don't think it was the fault of the actress so much as it was that the producers had no real clue how to handle a new companion after Rose.

The big mistake they made with Martha, for me, was having her fall in love with the Doctor and then - naturally since they didn't want to cheapen the whole Doctor/Rose ship or have yet another romance on board the TARDIS - having the Doctor not interested in her in that way. That doomed the character completely in my eyes and just made her irritating.

Even later, when Martha guested in later seasons, having gotten over her crush, and had turned into some super-efficient scientist/freedom fighter, she was never convincing for me in those roles, unfortunately and I found her scenes in those episodes boring.

Just my impression - I'm an interested watcher of Dr. Who but not a rabid fan, so I'm not up on any of the behind the scenes discussions or what the producers have said about how they presented the character. It just always seemed to me that the romantic angle was a huge mistake. If they had presented Martha in a similar way to the way they presented Donna in S4 - someone who was a best friend and had no romantic interest in the Doctor whatsoever - I may have warmed to her much more.

But, as it was, I just got the strong impression that they started off not really knowing how best to go with the character and lost their way more and more as the season progressed. It's always seemed to me to have been a real waste.

LabRat

I agree with most of what's been said about Martha's character. I had a hard time with her all the way through Season 3, but liked her a lot more when she guested in Season 4. Her performance in the Sontaran arc was better than anything in S3, but what made me finally soften toward her character was "The Doctor's Daughter." Martha's reaction when the Hath exchanged his life for hers reaffirmed that she wasn't cut out for travel with the Doctor and, I think, was Freema's best performance.

I think that Martha's character was doomed from the start by deliberate design, created to show that associating with and emulating the Doctor's lifestyle will lead to disaster. The Doctor is the lonely god for a reason and this concept needed reaffirmation after Rose.

The writers used Martha the way they did (with her romantic interest) not because they didn't know what to do after Rose, but because she was designed as a direct juxtaposition to Rose. Whereas Rose was able to understand the Doctor and thrive in that lifestyle (even without the Doctor around -- Defender of the Earth, anyone?), Martha proved that it takes someone unique.

Hence, RTD's comment that Rose was the Doctor's soulmate was proven anytime Martha's character was used. They also needed to show Martha as a soldier as prelude to the plot-line of the S4 finale. In essence, I don't think Martha was ever supposed to be anything more than a plot device. True, this sucked for her, but that's why I think it was by deliberate design.

As for Torchwood -- last year I tried to watch the DVD's and stopped about 1/2 way through Season 1. I loved Captain Jack when he was on DW with the Ninth Doctor and Rose, but couldn't get into the show as a stand alone. I remember hearing somewhere that Torchwood was a more "adult" version of Doctor Who, but I guess I'm just not grown up enough to enjoy it.

I saw this line at the top of 'active posts' and thought, "what was wrong with Martha in S3?" So I opened it to find out and discovered I thinking of the wrong Martha.

*Insert pause while I do a 180 and switch from Smallville to the TARDIS*

Martha Jones didn't inspire any dedicated opinion in me at all - I neither really liked her nor really hated her. I suppose that says something about her right there. She didn't have the passion of Rose, even considering her Doctor crush, nor Donna's inner core of strength. She was just there. Probably why S3 is my least favorite season. I only bought it because my husband couldn't tolerate having gap between seasons 2 and 4!

Marcus:
O.K. now I remember him. I just rather liked Martha's energy. I have not seen much Dr. who, but she was good on a Torchwood crossover.
Tank, Mickey wasn't on Torchwood, just Martha

Artemis

But Artemis, my recollection of the Dr. Who episode Journey's End was that it implied Mickey and Martha might join Torchwood.

It's on in reruns as I write this, so I'll doublecheck.

Ok, near the end of Journey's End, when they are back on Earth (and it's back in place), Jack says walks away with Martha and says, "Maybe there's something else that you could do." Mickey runs to catch up with them and Jack says, "Thought I got rid of you."

So it was implied they might go to work with Torchwood.

IIRC, that didn't pan out. Children of Earth takes place after Journey's End, I think (and I'm too lazy to check) and Mickey and Martha aren't in it at all. They never did go to work with Torchwood.

Artemis

Yeah, Mickey never did appear on Torchwood. I was merely reacting to the 'implication' that Mickey and Martha might join a new version of Torchwood.

As I mentioned earlier, the only way I can see Gwen being able to come back to Torchwood is if she lost Rhys and and kid. This would create a darker, and perhaps more negative Gwen. But without Ianto around, would this give Jack and reason to swing back to a woman (Gwen?)for a time?

For Gwen, Jack would be a safer choice since he couldn't die... but, he would, by definition of immortality, eventually leave her.

With as ruthless as the producers of the show have been in the past I wouldn't put it past them to put Gwen in such a position of loss. They do mention in the DVD extras that it was planned to kill off Rhys at the end of the first season, but they just liked the actor too much to do so.

What it comes down to is if there is enough pressure from the viewers to 'force' the producers to bring back the show. Whether it works from there will have to be seen.

Tank (who, even if there is a fourth season will have to wait years to see it since he doesn't get BBC America)

Just had a thought. As we've seen from Doctor Who episodes, this universe also has alternate worlds with counterparts to those characters we know.

Perhaps an alternate Tosh could fall through the rift and help populate a new Torchwood.

Tank (who says that another Gwen, so there would be two of them, could be fun)

Shortly after the hints in Journey's End - and I believe that the producers did publicly talk about Martha at least joining Torchwood - the entertainment media was full of articles about how it had all been scotched by the fact that the actress who played Martha (and whose name constantly escapes me) had been booked to star in Survivors.

This always puzzled me because when I tuned in to Survivors it was expecting her to be one of the leads and instead she played a bit part and died in the first episode.

I think she did a couple of guest parts on Torchwood, but that was it, didn't she?

LabRat

Martha was in Torchwood for three episodes, I think.

I really don't think Torchwood / L&C would work well - I did a short one with Captain Jack in Smallville when Clark arrived, but it wouldn't have worked at any length.

The one I'd love to see is a crossover with the Sarah Jane Adventures; Lois and Sarah Jane Smith have a LOT in common, give them a mystery to solve and they'd bond in minutes. Meanwhile Luke, SJ's adopted son, is a super-genius with no preconceptions and would have no problem recognizing Superman behind those glasses...

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