Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Fact of the Day: Women's Equality Day

From Reference.com :

...kind of makes me want to shake my head and go "Progress toward equality? Hell, we should have had that since the start."

August 26 is Women's Equality Day? Interesting. I had never heard of it. Here in Sweden, we only celebrate March 8.

As for women's progress towards equality - well, as long as millions of female fetuses are aborted every year because of their gender only, so that there is a severe and growing shortage of girls in the world's two most populous countries, India and China, and there isn't any sort of outrage about this anywhere, then I'd say that people all over the world agree that women's and girls's equal right to exist in the first place isn't really worth fighting for.

Ann

Well, there's a sweeping generalisation, Ann. But you knew that, right?

Please don't speak for me on this - or on anything else. There are a lot of things going on in the world which outrage me. That I don't choose to share my outrage about them on this forum should in no way be presumed to mean that you or anyone else knows my opinion on them.

And, unless you've personally asked every single person in the world what they think on the issue, I'd suggest that it's the height of arrogance to assume that you know what their thoughts and/or opinions are.

Tell us your own opinion by all means, but taking it upon yourself to speak for everyone else on the planet is more than a little presumptuous.

LabRat

When I talked about the lack of outrage, I wasn't talking about these boards, Labby. Why would I expect the people on these boards to feel outraged about these things, let alone show any outrage they may feel, when I can find no outrage in Swedish media, in Danish media, in Norwegian media, in British media and in American media, as far as I can tell? I don't know about media elsewhere, admittedly, but when I google for information about female feticide in India and China, I find a lot of information about these facts, all delivered calmly and coolly. There is no outrage anywhere. When was the last time there was a big demonstration against mass female feticide? I have never heard of one.

I remember the days when there was apartheid in South Africa. Well, there was outrage about apartheid in Sweden back then. In 1970 or thereabout, a South African tennis team was going to play against Sweden here in Sweden. A lot of Swedes rioted against the fact that these "representatives of apartheid" were allowed to come here.

But I have not read about a single demonstration of outrage against the mass killings of female feticides. There is just no outrage anywhere, not the kind of outrage that people choose to show to others. At least, I can find no such outrage from any part of the world when I google for information.

I'm not saying that you don't feel outraged about this, Labby. I have no way of knowing your thoughts or feelings. Apparently you choose not to show your outrage about female feticide on these boards, if you feel such outrage. Which is none of my business. Because I wasn't talking about you.

And for the record: I'm not speaking for everyone else on the planet. I'm speaking for myself.

There have been others who have voiced very pointed opinions on these boards. I don't think they have ever been accused of speaking for everyone else. I myself haven't thought of these other FoLCs as if they were speaking for everyone. I have thought they were speaking for themselves. That's what I do, too. I speak for myself. So please, Labby, do me a favor: Attack my opinions by all means, but please don't insinuate that I speak for others. Because. I. Don't.

Ann

I didn't feel like wading into what surely would become another controversial fray, but I do have to say this:

I personally think that would hold up a little better if the following statement hadn't been made prior to that:

Now assuming Labrat wasn't found in a field in Scotland when her home planet exploded, I'd say she falls into the "people all over the world" category.

And for the record, I'm a former female fetus from India who's alive and well. And just because I don't choose to air my feelings about various topics on a board that I come to with the intent of talking about "Lois and Clark" doesn't mean that I don't care or feel that women deserve equal rights.

And furthermore, I agree with Lara. What's this progress crap? It should have been progress from Day One.

Glass ceiling, meet my heels.

Ditto on the not wanting to wade in, but one thing.

The fight for women's rights is not monolithic. It is not one.

There are plenty of people fighting for women's rights here with people from those places and there are people fighting for women's rights here working to provide single moms with the support they need, fighting against violence against women, working with the queer community, working with disadvantaged communities, etc, etc.

There is not one cause, one battle, one type of woman to protect, one way to reach equality.

Just the implication is harmful.

alcyone

Yes, I agree, I did say that, Jenn. So let me amend it. People everywhere choose not to demonstrate against female feticide in India and China. Governments don't use sanctions against India and China, the way sanctions were used against South Africa. Yes, I can see that sanctions might be completely ineffectual against huge economies like India and China. But I never hear about the widespread female feticide in India and China as any sort of international concern at all. During the Olympic Games in Beijing, and especially before the Olympic Games in Beijing, there was a lot of talk internationally about China's treatment of Tibet. In large parts of the world, people dressed in red to show their sympathy with the people of Tibet. There were talks about boycotting the opening ceremony of the games. China received a lot of international criticism over its cavalier attitude to human rights, too. President Bush singled out the lack of freedom for religion movements as a particular problem, and others talked about how different websites were blocked so that international reporters and ordinary people in China couldn't access all the websites they might want to visit. There were reports on how shantytowns in Beijing were torn down to give the city a shiny new look, leaving a lot of poor people homeless. And there were many reports on how various officials in the earthquake-ridden parts of China had been corrupted, and how they had siphoned off a lot of money that was supposed to be used to build sturdy schools and had lined their own pockets with that money instead. In short, there have been very many reports about things that are not good in China. But I can't remember anyone talking about the female feticides in connection with the Olympic Games.

I'm glad to hear that, Jenn. But in any case, there is no way that India and China can ever allow people to kill off all their female fetuses. That would cause tremendous problems soon enough, and there would be no way that the governments of those countries, or, for the matter, the international community, could ignore the question any more. (And obviously the people in India and China couldn't tolerate such a situation, either.)

Well, I'm saying that the question of female feticide is being pretty much ignored now. And to me it is amazing that the international community is shrugging its collective shoulders when it hears that female fetuses are systematically removed just because these fetuses are female.

But maybe that's just me.

Ann

When I was a sophomore in college, way back when, :p , I took a GE history of rock and roll class. I thought it would be fun and possibly a good way to meet some new friends.

Unfortunately the professor did not lend much fun or enthusiasm to the course and I admit having no hold on whatever material I had to learn to for it.

I am getting to the point, don't worry. One day he was lecturing about the 50's and began a tangent-more like a rant in my opinion-about people who had been forced as slaves to come to the US and how "they" all shared the same taste in music and other things. The professor, went on a good 10 minutes about "those" people and informing us, his students, as to how "they" felt, lived, etc. Yeah.

I can be a very quiet and reserved person. I'm usually even keeled etc. I remember sitting in that large class, probably had a good 50 people in it, and even though sure a lot of students were bored and zoned out not one person stood up and said anything. Yes, finally I raised my hand and called him on it-asked how he knew how all "those" people felt. I probably didn't say it that directly but you get the idea. He had a shred of grace to temporarily at least stop in his spiel but then continued on.

Anyway, this topic reminded me of that experience and how lucky each of us is to have our own voice and how very lucky we all can be when we share with one another.

Mona, who simply remembered the above incident and thought it appropriate to share.

This post has been deleted.

Ann

ya know, seriously, of all the things that this thread could have sparks in ways of topics to discuss, I really wish you hadn't chosen abortion.

Honestly, seriously. This is probably the one topic that personally hurts the most to discuss.

Could you not find anything POSITIVE to say about women's equality, Ann? Granted I made a comment about the fact that we should have had it from the start, but my thread was meant as a thumbs up for the fact that there are people celebrating this day.

I really wish we could leaving killing unborn children out of this!

Three words: Don't. Go. There.

And stop acting like no one cares about these issues but you, Ann. I appreciate that you're passionate about your causes, but don't denigrate the rest of us in the process. The OT folder isn't your personal soapbox -- or mine, or anyone else's. I honestly can't do anything but sit here and shake my head at the fact that a thread about something so important -- women's rights -- has turned into yet another crusade cleverly disguised as a debate.

Moreover, I really wish that if you insist on bringing up touchy and controversial subjects like this that you would think for a second about how threads and posts like these might make some of the readers feel and have a little bit of compassion. Most of us don't know each other so well that we can know everything about a person's past and how someone might react to something like this.

I'm just saying, you never know who you might be hurting, and you should really think about that.

Yes. I'm sorry I brought up abortions. It is a topic I don't want to discuss myself.

Isn't there anything positive to say about women's equality? Oh, sure! So many things have happened really, and there are so many new opportunities for girls and women. There have been so many brave and strong women who have fought for their own rights and for the rights of other women. You have to admire them.



Professor of chemistry.



Astronaut.



Firefighters.

[img]http://pro.corbis.com/images/42-15555657.jpg?size=572&uid=%7B7615DC07-1A05-4E03-9D4F-62DD1F3D0630%7D[/img]

Artist.



Adventurer. (But it was hard to find a picture.)



Investigative reporter.

The world has opened up to women, that's for sure. And indeed, maybe a Women's Equality Day can help make things even better.

Ann

There's a lot more to cheer about as regards progress towards equality. How about all these women, trailblazers in their field and a role-model for others? Whether or not one agrees with their politics (and there's at least one here I never would have voted for), they have made the idea of a woman political leader - prime minister, president or whatever - feel normal, no longer something that a woman just can't or shouldn't do.



Margaret Thatcher, first (and only) female prime minister of the UK and the first woman prime minister in Europe. Benazir Bhutto, first female prime minister of a Muslim country.



Mary Robinson, first female president of Ireland, later a leader on the world stage through her activities in the UN.



Indira Ghandi - instant name-recognition around the world, twice prime minister of India, with her first term commencing in 1966.



Gro Harlam Bruntland, three times prime minister of Norway; Elizabeth Domitien, former prime minister of the Central African Republic and the first black woman political leader.



Kim Campbell, briefly prime minister of Canada and the first woman political leader in North America.


And finally:


The first serious female candidate for President of the United States.


Wendy

When I was a university student, one of the guest speakers we had was a very old woman, both dignified and charming. My grandmother would have called her a lady. She had been a suffragette, in England way back when, part of that group of daring women who engaged in things like protest marches, hunger strikes, and activities more radical.

We asked why she did it, and she answered, "Because my brothers were sent to university and I was not."

c. (who had to smile at the inclusion of Kim Campbell in Wendy's gallery. Although a very remarkable woman, Ms. Campbell was never elected as Prime Minister but took office in one of those brief doomed interregnums. Nevertheless one step at a time. We still have far to go. )