Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Do you believe in the concept of romantic love?

I’m about to broach a pretty touchy subject here. It’s actually pretty amazing how upset people get with me when I broach this subject. I either have people who look at me as if I am thinking about drowning kittens, look at me as if I have just drowned THEIR kitten, or they agree with me. So in broaching this remember this is merely my opinion and I’m in no way trying to force it upon you. Also I apologize for the tldr; you are about to experience. If you get bored just answer the question posed in the topic of the thread.

Growing up I had a very special view of what marriage and love were going to be like. I believed in soul mates and I especially believed that there was one special person out there for me. You know those stories about people who had been married for years and who both die with in hours of each other because it was if their heart just couldn’t go on? Yeah... that’s the kind of love I’m talking about.

Years passed by and I became more and more frustrated as I never felt that I had met this person. I met many people who were interesting but no one I felt an all consuming passion and love for.

Flash forward to my current relationship. About 6 months ago I was miserable. Why? Because after that first burst of strong feelings I had for my boyfriend it fizzled. Suddenly I found myself thinking, “Am I really in love with him?” I mean I did love him but just not in the way I felt I should. I began to have doubts about the relationship and I really felt I was making a mistake. It had little to do with how we interacted at tha point. Everything was perfect and healthy and I had no real reason to complain. Still I felt it was all falling apart.

Then around January it finally hit me. There isn’t such thing as romantic love. At least not the one you read in books, see in movies, or see sensationalized in news stories. I think that people like to believe in this but for the most part doesn’t happen.

Now before you get upset with me and say, “But Jojo that is silly!” and give me X and Y reasons why I’m wrong let me explain to you my definition of love. (Then you can fuss at me all you want. )

Love to me is caring very deeply for someone and knowing that you will always want them to be a part of your life. The people you love also means that you will sacrifice bits of yourself in one way or another to help them and make them happy. It’s a bit deeper than this of course and I could spend several pages going on and on about it but the reason I say this is that I began to realize that sort of love wasn’t inclusive to romantic relationships. This was the same way I felt about friends and family as well.

Suddenly it hit me. This idea that somehow his love was supposed to be greater or more special and different than everyone else was just stupid. Suddenly I felt ridiculous for even contemplating it in any other way. I'm even a bit ashamed of believing in the whole concept now.

That feeling everyone feels when they first meet someone? It isn’t love at first sight. It’s infatuation at first site. Why are relationships so much fun at first? Because here before you stands someone who could be all that you ever wanted. It’s new and you don’t know a thing about this person. Infatuation sets in as you hope and wish that they will be all those things you want. Sometimes it is merely attraction. Of course some people who swear, “I’m in love!” when they meet a person soon find that it wasn’t really romantic love at all but that hope that they were the one. Then of course after a time people get to know each other and they realize that “love” is gone.

All these years I’ve been buying into this theory and once I stopped, things suddenly got MUCH better in my relationship. I was actually happy. (Although friends still try to convince me I’m just settling because they still believe in that romantic love.)

Maybe I’m just naïve and this is something everyone has always known about romantic love. So what are your thoughts on it? I’m curious. Do you believe in it?

(I’ll stop rambling here even though I have so many more thoughts. =P)

You're preaching to the choir, Jojo! Although I thought this analogy was pretty damn funny:

Seriously, what is romantic love? It's sounds like such a label. I ask this question to myself a lot because one of my best friends is a guy named Phil. We'd probably drown trying to walk on water for each other, but we're just friends who love each other. And it certainly didn't start out that way. We went to the same bar with the same group of friends sitting at the same table for two years before I even had a real conversation with him. And now six years later, and for me, a move to a new city, I still let him haul me out of bed to answer my phone at obscene hours or whatever he comes up with at 2 in the morning. (I swear he never sleeps.)

But anyway, I think you're totally right that there's a certain kinds of caring and commitment in love that aren't exclusive to the term "relationships." I realize I'm a town cynic here, but life's a bitch and then you die. So you find the people you would never want to replace and then you hold onto them. And even though, and yes strangely, all of my favorite movies have happily ever afters in them heh, I think you have to build your own happily ever after and not sit around idly while you wait for it to come to you.

JD

I do believe in romantic love. However, I don't believe in romantic love like you see on TV. (It's like that line in Sleepless in Seattle: "You don't want to be in love. You want to be in love in a movie.") Love can certainly have some movie-like aspects, but not all of the time. Realizing that isn't settling, it's growing up.

This is what I told another friend when she asked me a similar question:

I am no expert on love, but here are a few things I have come to understand in the last few years: Love doesn't strike, it grows. Don't underestimate the qualities of loyalty and humor. Sometimes instead of "knowing", it's more a matter of "deciding". And love isn't perfect - there will be days or even weeks in which you want nothing more than to hit your true love over the head with a cast iron skillet.

I have had a couple of love affairs like you see in fiction, but when the fire burned down there was nothing left. On the other hand, my relationship with my husband was never an inferno, but it was and is a warm steady glow, and I have come to value that a lot more. Sometimes movies and fanfiction make me a little wistful, but then he will make me laugh or caress my hair or give me bath when I am sick, and I realize that I wouldn't trade that for any number of soul shattering kisses. It's possible there is a man out there who could have given me both, but I really don't believe it and I don't regret not waiting for it.

Find a guy with whom you share an attraction, by all means. But also find a guy who respects you, an a guy who will share in decisions with you (and I mean all decisions, ranging from financial to family to medical to vacations to what movie to watch on Friday night), a guy who will hold back your hair when you vomit and won't flinch when some lands on his shoes, a guy who will laugh with you, a guy who will put his life on the line to protect you and your family, a guy who will be there in the morning no matter how bad you two are fighting, a guy who, when he says "forever", you believe him, deep in your gut, because you know his character and because you've already asked him all the important questions. (Yes, all this can be found in one man, I promise! )

That is love. If you have all that, trust me, romance will follow. Not everyday, but often enough. And that will be the guy that makes you happy for 50 years, and eventually your grandchildren will be saying, "My grandparents were soulmates."

I do believe in the concept of romantic love. I met my husband through a mutual friend and it took ages before we even really talked to one another when Steve wasn't in the room...then one day (at another friend's wedding), I began feeling like something was wrong and realised it was because this guy who I was "just friends" with, wasn't there to share the wonderful occasion with me.

We both kind of got broadsided by the fact we were in love with each other since we seemed to have little in common (outside of Steve that is) and there was an age difference (I'm six years older than he is) but pretty much from the first date on, the feelings and the utter certainly that we belonged together grew at an exponential pace...so much so that when we got engaged about five weeks after the first date, the only people who were shocked over it were our parents, who lived in different cities and had not witnessed us as a couple.

A week from now will be the twentieth anniversary of the night we decided to get married. I've never felt at all like we "settled", for me it feels very much a romance, albeit with kids and more extensive careers but romance nontheless. I do know some couples who turned friendship into marriage without the fireworks of great passion and bonding and in some cases it's stood the test of time.However compared to the relationships I had before I met my husband, I'll take the romance anyday!!

In the 16 years I have experienced with the same guy, I believe you GROW into romantic love, where when we first met it was all raw animal attraction, then friendship, then dependance on each other, we've just come to appreciate each other as the years pass so much that I can say it's now a romance, with friendship as a bonus.

TEEEEEEJ

I'm with Jo Jo and JD. I've never believed there is just ONE person out there for me. My husband doesn't think there is only ONE person out there for him. To us, we made the decision to love each other and we make that decision every day.

I mean, Lord willing, one of us will not die prematurely (I mean at a young age) but if that were to happen to one of us, say in our prime, we both agree that we would most likely get married again. It doesn't mean that we would love each other any less but it also means that we would love that other person enough to commit to a life long relationship with them.

I think the "romantic love" that so many of us feel at the beginning of a relationship is mostly attraction and just those fun butterflies and excitement of a new relationship. I think there are so many divorces because when those feelings are gone, people don't feel like they "love" each other anymore. (of course there are many other reasons as well: abuse, infidelity, etc.)

Like I said earlier, I believe that you have to make the decision to love your spouse every day and really work on it. I think the couples that stay together for years and years and are the 'happy couple' that everyone admires, are not that way because they were meant to be but because they meet each others needs and work on their relationship.

Couples who die old within a couple days of each other or whatever, I guess you could call them soulmates. But I don't think they were born soulmates. I think it was a lifetime of commitment and unselfishness that made them 'soulmates.' I'm sure if that person were the most important person in your life for so many years, your constant companion, it would be like losing part of yourself when they passed.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

"Falling in love" is wonderful. Like someone said, here's a person who just *might* fulfill all your dreams. That's exciting. But it simply cannot last. Sooner or later, they're going to disappoint you. So then what? Get rid of them in hopes of finding someone else to audition for your dreams? You can waste a lot of years that way, 'cause ain't nobody perfect.

My church teachings have always been along the lines of "Love is a verb." It's what you choose to do, not what feeling happens to you. That's what marriage vows are about, really. Nobody needs incentive to stay married when they're rapturously in love. It's when you're looking around for a cast-iron skillet that you need that reminder that you made a promise. Some friends of mine got married the other week, and they wrote their own vows. The one I really liked was "I will love you when I am proud of you -- and I will love you when I'm disappointed." That strikes me as very healthy.

I've been married almost 17 years now. Some of those years were pretty rough. I used to joke that the only reason we stayed married was because we were too poor to afford divorce lawyers. But really, it was because we had decided ahead of time that we were going to *stay* married, come hell or high water. (Part of that was the conviction that that was what Christians should do, and part was our personal backgrounds -- I had the good example of my mother staying married to my step-dad even when he made her miserable, and seeing things improve between them, and Kelley had the bad example of his mother getting divorced three times, and basically growing up without a father.) So we endured the bad times, and since then have seen things improve a lot. Our marriage is better now than it *ever* was.

I think I've wandered from the point.

I think my answer to the question is -- I love a good romantic fantasy, but I don't expect real life to look like that.

Wow - fascinating topic and it’s really interesting to read all your opinions. Many of those I share.

As for me, I can say that I strongly believe in the concept of romantic love. I just don’t think that it’s necessarily the way people picture it, the way Hollywood movies want to make us believe it is.

Some of you guys brought pretty good examples of what is about for you. I read about holding the hair when your significant other when they vomit or sacrificing bits of yourself. And Jojo mentioned that this was the way she felt about close friends and family, too.

Well, maybe I have the wrong kind of friends (or family... um...) but I don’t feel that way. I have a best friend and we have the greatest times together. We can call each other day or night, no matter what. But this is immensely different from the things I experience when I’m in love (well, I’ve only been in love once, so my opinion might change sometime).

There is this strong bond that you feel. The need to be with each other. The will to fall asleep in their arms and wake up again next to their sleepy face. The wish to read their thoughts and the hope you are in them constantly. And the will to do all these things for the rest of your lives.

I’m not saying that love *has* to last all your life. As so many of you pointed out, it grows. And all that grows, can “just as easily” fade for a lot of reasons. Which is why I don’t think that there is only *one* person made for me out there in the world.
But I do believe that there are people who I can feel more for than “just” the love I feel for my friends and my family. And with some luck these person(s) will love me back.

For the previous seven years, I used to have a boyfriend... that I didn’t love. I thought that being with someone who likes you, who doesn’t exactly treat you bad, who is faithful, that all these things are enough to stay with him for the rest of my life. And it would probably have been. But it didn’t make me happy. And I got even more unhappy, realizing that there are people who manage to make my heart skip a beat and my stomach do somersaults.

So, I’m not saying that being in a relationship without the soulmate-feeling is a bad thing – not at all. But I do believe that there is romantic love out there. And if you have experienced it, you will know so. And you’ll never want to let it go again.

Wow, this is a fantastic topic. I love reading everyone's replies, which I basically agree with, although I'm completely inexperienced with the whole "falling in love" thing. I can honestly say I haven't fallen in love yet, but I've watched friends and family, and have basically come up with the same ideas that I've read in this thread. I love the phrase "love is a verb"--I think it's so true! I also like that you grow into that kind of love--my mother had a cross-stich that hung in our house for as long as I can remember "Joy is being married to your best friend." And that is basically what I want--I want to be best friends with my husband.

From personal knowledge it can happen pretty fast. My parents were married a week after they met. That was during WW II but they were happy together the rest of their lives.
A friend of my wife and I met the sister of another friend when there was a weekend long gaming get together at her house. The sister was visiting during college break. Our friend like us was a year or so out of college. They talked until they fell asleep on the couch leaning on each other. When he left Sunday evening she went with him. They got married a year and a half later and they've been together about 20 years now.
My wife and I decided after dating several months in college we'd get engaged after I graduated. We did and thats 25 years ago.

Do I believe in romantic love? Yes and No. No, in the sense of what you see in the movies, in particular Sleepless in Seattle. No, because romatic love takes lots of hard work and most people are just to damn lazy to put the work in. So even if 2 people are lucky enough to find each other generally one if not both are too lazy op out for divorce.

Yes, in that I know what it is based on. I remember when I was a teenager talking to my mother about love and marriage. My mother said to first not worry about the lust and sex. That sometimes it starts out hot, and sometimes slow and cool and just sneeks up on you. In either case there are things to examine at different stages in the relationship, but all must be asked before one takes the step into marriage.

If you start with the lust phase and animal attraction is there on meeting realize with time this will fade or can be killed. That if it isn't there right away don't dispare because in time it can ignite. So ignoring the sexual part do you:

1. Like the person as in friendship. Do you have common interest and views.
2. If you don't have many common interests or views can you accept theirs and give them the space to have them or enjoy them.
3. When you aren't with them do you miss their COMPANY (not Sex) just their being there because something pops into your head you want to share.
4. Do you RESPECT THEM - as the whole person they are. How they treat people, what they are like when they've had to much to drink, the way they treat you, the way they handle their job and their view on having and raising children etc. How do you feel about the whole person because no matter how much lust a lack of respect will kill it. The lust can blind you to how you really feel about the person they are.
5. If your maybe mate were in an accident and would be disabled in some way for the rest of their life can you say it doesn't matter and marry them anyway.

My mother felt if you couldn't say a loud, hearty YES to these 5 points then you weren't in love just lust.

I realized at the time she was telling me this that it was something she learned after she was married. My father was good a good looking college educated man, my mother was at least 25 from a small town where few went to college, and her girlfriends convinced her that it was nerves and that my dad was a good catch. Well it wasn't nerves looking back at their marriage, and my dad was most definitely not a good catch. I realized that I never knew my parents when they were in love and that my mother had no respect for my father. So like Lois I was scarred by their marriage, so I chose not to marry. Have I experience rommantic love. No, but I didn't want it even though there was a man I could have had it with.

Be careful of wanting it to much. I had a friend when I was in my 20's that wanted it. When she was 25 she was getting ready to be married for the third time. I ended our friendship over it. She was too high maintenance in the friendship department because of this need. We had met through a part-time job and a mutual friend had asked me why I thought she was getting married again and so soon. I said because she is in love with being in love - the whole romance of it. From the stories she would tell of her relationships you could tell that she takes that glow you can get when you meet someone that gives you that spark reads it as love. She'd jump into marriage but when the work started she was out of there. She wanted the romance, not the day to day being married - housework, in-laws, fights.

I have an aquaintance from years ago who did much the same thing-she lost her father when she was about 12 years old and jumped into marriage with an older, domineering man when she was 23. By the time her third marriage was in the works (this was over a span of 11 years), both her family and friends were feeling like, "Oh boy, here we go again!". Eventually she decided to become a full-time foster mom (after the third divorce), taking in special needs aboriginal kids...something that left her with no spare time to hang out in bars, meeting more wrong guys! She'd always wanted to be a mother but when husband #1 was abusive, husband #2 had a low sperm count and husband #3 had only married her for a green card, she never got the child she wanted. Now she's got four kids, all from the same family and no husband making for a fifth kid.

I never have been able to ask my mom why she married my dad because I never once saw them as a happy couple-it might have been familiarity since his best friend was her brother but growing up, they were a terrible role model for me and my siblings. This might explain why my 44 year old sis squabbled her way through every relationship she ever had and will never marry, though both my brother and I are very happily married. The last real dispute I can recall with my husband was in late 2002 and centered around whether or not Vancouver should get the 2010 winter Olympics-it lasted all of an hour!

Wow. This pretty much runs the gamut of responses.

Here's my take on romantic love: It exists, it's really great, it's extremely satisfying, but it's not the reason to commit to a lifelong relationship.

That's because romance and all that goes with it - the warm feelings, the glow of satisfaction, the passion, the excitement - are all temporary. If we expect marriage to be all passion and release, we're not being realistic.

Allow me to follow Ann's example and quote from the Bible, specifically 1 Cor. 13.

Please note that in this discussion of love, feelings are never mentioned. That's because our feelings are normal, are perfectly valid, but are never supposed to be our guide. If I love my wife, I will do all the things mentioned above without requiring her to reciprocate.

And let me clarify something: This is not what love looks like. This is what love is. That passionate "I love you" that pops out at all the expected times (and some unexpected ones) is great, is great to hear, is great to say, and expresses so much, is empty and shallow if it isn't accompanied by the above actions.

I have told my teenage daughter on more than one occasion that a boy (man) doesn't love a girl (woman) in a marrying way if he's never said those eight magic words:

And I've told her that she's not ready if she's never said them to the boy (or man).

These words are hard to say, but if two people have never said these words to each other, they're not ready to be married. Either they haven't known each other long enough to hit those inevitable tough spots, or at least one partner isn't ready to be completely open and honest with the other.

That's my opinion and my two cents. Might as well spend the money here, because I can't buy gasoline with it.

...

On one hand, I'm thankful to read this discussion. On the other hand, it frustrates me to no end.

And no, you will not hear my opinion. :p

See ya,
AnnaBtG.

IMO, it's both physical attraction and hard work. I think that's what makes the "ideal" marriage. I also think it helps if you don't get married until you know who you are as a person and what you want out of life. That way, you are far less likely to fall for the wrong person in the first place.

I think the way "romantic" love lasts is if it's built on a solid foundation of friendship and values/lifestyles/interests in common. But, if my grandparents are any indication, it does exist. If I've learned anything from my life it's that opposites may attract, but they probably shouldn't get married. Different personalities are one thing--different life goals and desires are another story. When you have two people on two different planets, they are never going to get along no matter how much attraction they have for each other. But then again, if you have no attraction whatsoever, I sometimes wonder why you aren't just better off as friends.

My grandparents are going on 55 years, and some of them have been hard, but she still thinks he's really handsome and calls him "sweetie". He thinks she's the best thing he's ever known in his life. He has Parkinsons and can barely get around, but they love spending time together, and they love each other madly (seriously, madly--it's sort of gross!). They even hold hands in church! So, do I believe this sort of love exists? Absolutely. Do I think it's exactly like the movies? Absolutely not.

Interesting topic. It's given me a lot to think about. I've drawn no conclusions for myself yet, but wanted to comment on a couple of items.

Capes wisely said: I second and third that thought. I married when I was 20 (husband was 21) and neither of us had finished growing up yet. We've been together for over 15 years now. Parts have been great and parts have been really rough, but we're still together and learning how to love each other for the people we've become, not just who we started out as.

I also agree with Kmar about having respect for your partner/spouse. Without respect, it's difficult to see all the good the other person does. If you can't see that, there's not even friendship, let alone love.

BJ

I do believe in romantic love. However, I don't believe in romantic love like you see on TV. (It's like that line in Sleepless in Seattle: "You don't want to be in love. You want to be in love in a movie.") Love can certainly have some movie-like aspects, but not all of the time. Realizing that isn't settling, it's growing up. Very well said, Lisa, as the rest of your post!

I am still searching for a man with whom I'd want to share my life with. Even though I can be a very quiet/reserved person, I am a romantic at heart and would love for my future husband to have that quality as well. Most of all he needs to be someone who I can completely trust at all times with everything that I am and dreams to come, kind, loyal, passionate, someone who does not live to work but whose work is one that excites him and that he believes in, similar parenting beliefs, as I want children, a dog lover, and just plain has a good heart and head on his shoulders,etc etc, yes it'd help if he looked like Dean Cain! Couldn't resist! The truth is, while I've dated more dark hair/eyed men, I've always been initially greater attracted to blond/light eyed fellows.

Mona, who wishes her Mr. Right, would hurry it up and come!