Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic RIP Charleton Heston

I realize he was old when he died, but the man did cut a beautiful figure in leather.


I pray to God you didn't take the 2nd Amendment with you Mr. Heston. Godspeed and say hello to John Wayne for me.

EDIT: And here's a link of him in a loin cloth with a rifle!
How beautifully macho is THAT!

TEEEEEJ

Yeah, I was sad to hear that on the radio this morning. I just recently watched The Ten Commandments for the first time (I know, shame on me) and he was definitely a stud in his day. Fantastic actor too. He will be missed

And even though he does look very rugged and handsome in his loin cloth , I prefer the hairless men such as Clark.

True, but I've never seen a shirtless picture of Clark with a high powered fire arm. I'd be in nosebleed heaven with that image in my head forever.

TEEEEEEJ

<snort> Too true!

It's all I could find. He's not shirtless but . For your drueling pleasure.

Not that I support gun porn, but since it's my favorite non-LnC Dean Cain project...

I can't provide shirtless pics but perhaps a tight white t-shirt will do?









As for the high powered firearm...



This thread is going off topic quick...

/me attempting to stop nosebleed....No complaints here....

Those pics of Dean in the white t-shirt are most droolworthy. I actually went to see Best Men when it came out because I was so into LnC at the time, but until now had completely forgotten about it. (probably wasn't very good. )

Back to the topic - I just have to say that I find the image of Clark toting a piece strangely disturbing. Can't wrap my brain around it!

Er, what do you mean that's not the topic? Charlton who??

I think gun porn is entirely appropriate in a thread for Charlton Heston. I still remember all those great NRA bumper stickers in the mid-90's proclaiming "Charlton Heston is MY President".

Thanks, C_A, for making my heart skip a few beats there. Would you look at the arms on that guy in the first pic!

"Charlton Heston is MY President"

Betcha they were thinking just the same thing when they made him President in "Tempus, Anyone?"



(and iirc, Elvis had been President in that reality, too... *lol*)

I remember that, but I think the show was doing it in an insulting manner, saying that folks with guns would make a violent society, where all the crime trends have shown the more people who are armed, the safer we've been, with crime rates dropping since '92 I think. I'd have to look it up to know for sure.

MMM yeah, but look how his jaw is set! Just YUMMY!!!

TEEEEEEJ

Yeah, because the United States has one of the lowest crime rates in the world. :rolleyes:

Studies have shown a clear correlation between firearm availability and increased rates in homicide and suicide. Specifically, I'll point out a study published in 2002 where the authors conclude that "we found that in areas where household firearm ownership rates were higher, a disproportionately large number of people died from homicide" (Miller M, Azrael D, Hemenway D. Rates of household firearm ownership and homicide across US regions and states, 1988-1997. Am J Public Health. 2002 Dec;92(12):1988-93.) Another study that covers the years 2001-2003 concludes the same (Miller M, Hemenway D, Azrael D. State-level homicide victimization rates in the US in relation to survey measures of household firearm ownership, 2001-2003. Soc Sci Med. 2007 Feb;64(3):656-64. Epub 2006 Oct 27.). There are more studies like this available and you can look them up on pubmed.gov if you like.

Before you point out that guns don't cause people to kill each other or themselves, I am of the opinion that that doesn't matter at all. If you can't handle the responsibility of having a firearm at your disposal, then the firearm needs to be removed. It's just that simple.

*sigh* I knew this would get political. I usually avoid any thread you post in, TEEEEEJ, because you can't seem to stop yourself from dragging politics into every discussion, our views differ so completely and I come here to have fun, not to get mad about what people post on the Internet. I think I'll just go back to doing that.

Maybe that's the difference between folks of liberal character and folks of conservative character. Right thinking people can generally HANDLE the RESPONSIBILITY of having a firearm. That's why I thank God every day for folks like Charlton Heston, who are willing to fight for our rights and it's a shame folks like him can't live forever. I think Frankj said it best when he said.

and this: What I stated about that episode was absolutely true and the current statistic on crime is correct as well,...
so if anyone got argumentative C_A, I'd say it was that little tidbit right there.

Thanks for the Dean pics anyway.

TEEEEEEEJ

Whoa there, big fella - steady now! All conservatives are right-thinking, responsible gun-owners who would never be involved in gun crime, TJ? Really?

As for those angelic conservatives...I think probably, just like the rest of us, they're individuals, capable of a wide spectrum of behaviour, thoughts and morals. Some good, some bad. At least, that's what I've heard. It could, of course, just be an urban myth that they're human like the rest of us.

But, from what I recall (and I haven't watched an episode in a long time), you're entirely right about the point that LNC episode was making, TJ. Personally, I thought it was a point well-made and Heston a logical choice to make it.

Good advice for all of us. Personally, I preferred this one when it was a thunk thread.

LabRat

I've decided to stay out of the Charleton Heston debate and gun related issues altogether. I think that is a wise choice. (People can probably guess what my opinions are anyway.)

But C_A, even though I'm not going to try to persuade you to get yourself into, eh, certain kind of discussions, let me say that I enjoyed your posts in this thread. You and TEEEJ may have different opinions, but in some respects you and I do, too (I could mention the dreaded expression, 'death-of-Lois fics' ). But for all of that I sure hope you won't abandon these boards, and not these kinds of discussions either! (And TEEEJ, you and I have wildly different opinions too, but believe me when I say that I would miss you too, if you stopped posting here!)

Ann

Hi TJ,

As someone with a formal education in logic/statistics, I just have to comment on this little calculation you gave.

While your numbers surely are interesting, I have to say that the logic is intrinsically flawed.

Firstly, I would say that many advocates of stricter gun-control don't see accidental killings as the main problem posed by lax laws on gun ownership.
I'd think that most see people who willfully and purposefully kill others (for what reason ever) with their guns as the real problem.
And while I agree that big-time criminals will always find ways to buy guns, the problem for many lies with small-time crooks and pretty much regular people.
The former might kill people during, say, a robbery, a gang war, a mugging, etc. because they don't really know how to handle a gun and committing a crime puts them in an extreme, high-stress situation, which clouds their judgment.
The latter might kill because they are enraged, depressed or highly frustrated, e.g. because they were cheated on one way or other, just got fired, were mobbed by colleagues or fellow students, etc.

Killing someone with a gun is just a lot easier, less physically demanding and less messy than killing someone with a knife, for example, or beating them to death.
Owning a gun gives people an extremely efficient way of expressing their aggression towards people, which yields a much higher death rate than other ways.
This can be a good thing when you actually get to shoot a robber or potential rapist, but it can be tragic when that person managed to use your own weapon against you, or when you are not in eminent danger, but shoot because of things which might be horrible for you, but simple no reason to kill another being (being cheated on, losing your job, etc. - see above.)
These cases do not appear in statistics on accidental deaths, but they lie at the heart of the argumentation for many people in favour of strict gun control.

Secondly, even if we were talking about accidental deaths, you cannot just compare those per gun-owner/doctor, because you have to keep the following in mind:
A doctor typically finds herself in situations where she could potentially kill someone on a daily basis (even just giving a flu shot, she could accidentally inject an air bubble and kill the patient).
I think that many gun-owners, on the other hand, only have guns for self-defense purposes and might not so much as take them out of the night stand in months or even years. (As you can see, I actually don't assume that all gun-owners are trigger-happy, gun-crazed fanatics who spend their days shooting at moving targets.)

You would have to take this discrepancy into account when making your calculations in order to make it work.
So what you *could* compare, is the number of instances where a doctor or a gun-owner is in a position where they could accidentally kill someone and weigh it against the times they actually do kill someone accidentally.
I don't know whether such data is even available, but I am pretty sure the numbers would show a different picture. (I don't have enough information on that matter to make a guess as to *how* different.)

Having said all this, I think this topic does not only have to do with logic and arguments, it has to do with history and differences in people.
I've been to the US many times and for the most part I felt pretty save, I didn't think that everyone was waiting with their loaded gun to shoot me for trespassing or something.
So while I am in favour of strict gun-control in my own country, I acknowledge that for many Americans the right to own a weapon has a high symbolical value and I respect that.

Best,

Eva

Well this thread just went way off topic from our good friend Charleton Heston but what the hey, I'll comment on gun stuff.

As many of you know, I'm a Conservative Republican Christian Texan. Can anyone guess how I feel about owning guns? That's right. I'm all for it.

I feel like if the 'bad guys' out there have a gun that could hurt me, I wanna have one to defend myself. I definitely think people should go to a shooting range and generally be comfortable with a gun before using or owning one but that doesn't always happen. I feel like if we are owning guns then there is definitely the responsibility to know how to use them properly.

As far as stricter gun ownership laws, this tends to hurt the non criminal people of society because like Eva said, the criminal element will be getting guns regardless of its legallity. (Eva didn't say stricter gun ownership laws hurt non-criminals, I'm just referring to the 2nd part of my sentence).

However, I do think there should be some stricter gun policies in some ways. For example, my brother. I love my brother and he's definitely on the right track now but... he was a thug for awhile. He went to jail for 6 months and then rehab for 6 months for dealing and manufacturing drugs. He's on probation for the next 6 years. And he owns 2 guns!!! I was so surprised that he had them and so I asked, "How the heck did you get two guns?" He said he bought them from someone (before he got in trouble with the law). And that there just has to be a paper trail showing where the guns have gone to, meaning, if my brother ever shot and killed someone and they tracked the bullet to the gun and then to the person who had bought it, that person would just have to show the paperwork that they had sold the gun to my brother and they're off the hook.

It seems like there should be some tighter restrictions on people selling their own guns to people because although my brother is no killer, there may be some creeps out there who are getting their guns exactly that way. But I also got my info from my brother and I'm not sure that his explanation is 100% accurate anyways.

Whether my brother should still have the guns now that he's considered a felon, is an entirely different matter. Actually I think my parents hid them somewhere but that's besides the point.

There will always be the gun 'abusers' but what about all us helpless folk who just wanna protect our own?

So there's my piece (heh, piece... get it?).

Steph - while there is some federal regulation, there is also a lot of differences from state to state - waiting periods, etc. Of course, anyone who really doesn't want to wait will find a way. But that may be part of the reason your brother can have one - the laws in your state.

Carol [who knows how to shoot]

Edit: What movie was that? Was it any good?

Yeah, you're probably right. And that may not even be Texas Law, the source being my brother and all.

I think gr8 mentioned it was called Best Men. And she said since she didn't remember it, it probably wasn't good. Heh.

um...gee, and all I really meant to do was just slip in the fact that they'd mentioned him on the show.

/hangs head in shame. I'm sorry!

Actually, Lab, you have cut me to the quick thinking that I would imply such a thing.

When I said conservatives are willing to handle the responsibility of gun ownership as compared to liberals, I was thinking of the leftward thinking person's willingness to leave some things as: food, clothing, shelter, medication, education, transportation, entertainment, mental stability, personal safety, did I say food??? and all around general well being up to the government, where most of the conservatives I know and talk to are willing to take such things upon themselves...or in my case up to God('cause I trust Him more than the government )

At any rate I would not ever make a general implication that the liberals that populate this board are all lawless or immoral. In fact lawlessness is more often demonstrated on the conservative side, for example there were a bunch of ruffians who threw a load of tea in the boston harbor cause those jerks didn't want to pay their taxes. What selfish fiends, huh! Then there was this guy who totally scoffed at the law about not working on the Sabbath and healed a lame guy. I mean WOW the gall...

Anywho, Charlton Heston was a great man, whose example we should never forget. I recall hearing that not only was he a great proponent of the 2nd amendment, he also marched for civil rights and thanks to him, we as a nation never have to worry about race or gender ever being considered in regards to getting a job or applying for college...oh, crap I forgot about affirmative action, didn't I? Dang! well anyway Chuck, one out of two ain't bad. At least he didn't waste his WHOLE life, right?

Ann, I promise to never leave the board so long as I have fic to read, Dean Cain to look at and folks to discuss with.

TEEEEEEJ