Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Richard Donner's Superman II

Have y'all seen the Donner cut of Superman II? My husband got me into watching it with him tonight, and I have to admit I was pleasantly surprised. It's a *big* change from the one we've probably all seen, and it makes a lot more sense than what they did twenty years ago.

Let me just say: *no* magic amnesia kiss. And the revelation scene was priceless.

I'm wondering what you guys think of it...

PJ

Here's what I said on Zoomway's board about it:

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In the theatrical Superman II, I don't think they actually kissed at all before he went in the chamber to give up his powers. I think it was the kiss itself--it happened again in Superman IV, as soon as he kissed Lois after revealing (AGAIN) that Clark was Superman.

In the Donner cut, though, they kissed (and slept together) BEFORE he gave up his powers. And they kissed after he got them back too. Then, he did the whole "turn the world backwards" thing again, and she forgot AGAIN.

I liked the Donner cut, but I thought that turning the world back again was a bit overkill. I mean, he'd been TOLD in the first movie not to mess with time, and at least then he had a GOOD excuse--Lois was dead, and he was bringing her back.

In the Donner cut of Superman II, NO ONE was dead (except Zod and the other two), and he ended up sending the 3 villains BACK to LIFE and the Phantom Zone, where they could probably get out again anyway. That just didn't make sense to me.

Not to mention, the Donner cut kind of messes up the theatrical series. I mean, Superman III isn't affected all that much if you try and think about how it would be changed if the Donner cut were the movie that actually got released way back when.

But Superman IV would need a few changes, and Superman Returns probably would also.

I'd write a fanfic about it, but I really don't feel like it.

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And my response to the following quote from SuperGEM on the same board.

It still made more sense in the 1st though. What would they have done with the 1st if they hadn't done the time turn? Lois couldn't have died then.

I can't afford the Ultimate collection at the moment--and I'm not sure I'm going to get it even when I can afford it, since I've already got all five movies plus the Donner cut--buying a collection with the same movies in it, no matter how many extras there are, just seems like overkill to me.

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The original Superman II was filmed at exactly the same time Superman I was filmed, ala Lord of the Rings where all three were filmed simultaneously, jumping all over the place on each day, filming II one day and Superman I the next.

Donner was supposed to be the director on both of those, but the Salkinds got upset at him for some reason and fired him for Superman II. In came Richard Lester, who had to refilm a ton of stuff because Hollywood rules require a director to direct at least 51% of a film to be credited. At the time Lester came in, at least 75% of the film had already been put in the can, so a lot of things were thrown out and changed.

For example, the nuclear explosion that was supposed to free Zod from the Phantom Zone was the Hackensack-bound nuclear missile. Lester came up with the whole Paris hostage crisis afterwards. The turn-back-the-world was originally intended for the end of Superman II, but very late in the process, the producers wanted that used for the ending of Superman I. So that left them to come up with a different ending to II. Donner was fired before they had resolved the problem and Lester had the notion of the "kiss" to erase Lois's memory.

Marlon Brando was also intended to be in both movies but when Lester was hired, the producers decided they couldn't afford to pay Brando for the second movie and dropped all scenes with him in it, rewriting them with Lara instead. That's why this version has so much of Brando.

The Donner Cut was asked for by lots of letter writers who had heard about this alternate version, so Warner asked Donner if he would complete his original vision and also helped to unearth all the missing footage that had been originally shot for II. So this version isn't intended to mess with continuity (granted SR messes with it as Lois somehow remembers she slept with Superman yet can't remember Clark=Superman). It came out because we, the audience, asked for it. Donner never expected to work on it ever again and was surprised when Warner asked him to finish the job. The Salkinds weren't terribly happy with the decision but it was out of their hands.

So the movie was cobbled together with every scrap of film they could find. What they couldn't find, they pulled in parts of Lester's film to fill out the entire story, with the exception of the revelation scene, which was the original screen test done with Christopher Reeve and Margot Kidder.

I, for one, loved the revelation. I also loved that Lois figured it out at the beginning of the movie with a picture of Superman with his arms crossed, just like Clark was standing at the time. It was hilarious how Clark saved her without her knowing about it, saving the revelation for a later time.

The only part I had a problem with was the second diner scene where Clark comes back to beat up the bully. But if the world was turned back and that never happened from everyone else's perspective, wouldn't that make Clark the bully?

Kidder is on record saying that the Donner version is truer to what she would have liked to see on screen, so she was delighted to see it come out as well.

I think the Donner version gave Lois a lot more dignity, really. She figures Clark out and her (second) scheme to prove it actually works, as opposed to the original where it's an accident. At the end, she accepts that she can't have a relationship with Superman, and promises to be a little less mean to Clark from now on. It was tragic but not pathetic, if you see what I mean.

Obviously, as a FOLC I think Jor-El's speech about how Kal-El can't love Lois *and* protect the rest of the world at the same time is a bunch of baloney. But Kal-El fell for it -- and he made an honest choice, even if he did have to go back and undo it later.

I think the turning-back-time bit was better than the amnesia kiss, too -- Superman undid *all* the damage instead of just covering his behind by taking Lois's memory away without her permission.

Well, unless you count the astronauts, and sherrif deputies, and helicopter pilots, and drivers of all those exploding cars in Metropolis, etc, etc... I personally was glad to see them saved. Really, when you think about it, it's the perfect Superman ending -- the bad guys are contained and everyone's still alive. Superman shouldn't kill anyone unless he can't find any alternative, and this was an acceptable alternative, IMO.

Yeah, Roger, the end scene in the diner didn't fit. I tried to console myself that even if the jerk hadn't beaten up on Clark yet, he'd probably beaten up lots of other people, so he still deserved a comeuppance, but that's grasping at straws.

PJ

Yeah, I got all that when I watched it with the commentary last night/this morning. Here's what I said over at the other board just a little bit ago, with a couple changes:

I liked the Donner cut, but it makes me wish for another version of Superman The Movie also--one which wasn't finished at a rush, and actually fits the storyline of the Superman II Donner cut.

Then, they could re-do III and IV, with Brandon Routh.

Not that I don't love Christopher Reeve, but it would be kind of impossible to re-do those two films with the footage they have from the theatrical versions. Especially since, as Donner and the other guy mentioned in the commentary, Superman III was more a Richard Pryor (sp?) movie than a Superman movie.

I'd like to see some of the ideas that Donner and the other guy had for III and IV that they mentioned in the commentary, going off of the way he wanted I and II to be also.

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A random thought: it struck me as kind of neat how Brandon Routh looks a LOT like Christopher Reeve did during that screen test.

I agree with you on all points you make here. The turn-back-the-world was better here than the "kiss". And I think Lois was less pathetic, though I don't know why she bought Jor-El's reasoning. They could always have a relationship as Lois and Clark. It didn't have anything to do with sleeping together since they did it before Clark gave up his powers (no woman of Kleenex). Teenagers won't accept it when their parents tell them they can't date someone. Why would Lois and Clark do the same?

It weakens the whole premise of Superman Returns, too. If they agreed they can't be together, then why the whole triangle with Richard?

On the second diner scene, I was watching to see if the owner uses the line, "Take it easy Rocky! I just got this joint fixed!" He did, so it makes me think that Donner just didn't notice the inconsistency. But it you want to stretch it, you can consider yourself consoled that Rocky had beaten up other people just recently and wrecked the diner.

I just did over 1400 screencaps of the Donner version of Superman II. The screencaps gallery is available on my website, but here's the direct link to it:
http://lncphoto.free.fr/SR-Sup/screencaps/superman2donner/imgcol.htm

Enjoy!

I just got my Ulimate Set last night and watched the Donner cut (without any commentary, though I did watch the special feature interviews).

I will say that it did plug some of the gaping holes that the theatrical version left hanging. I'd always had a problem with 'you give up your powers to become one of them and you can *never* go back'. And, of course, as soon as he needed them he got them back and it was never explained how. At least, cheesy as it was, we were given the method he was able to use to get them back.
I won't go into the kiss thing because it's been done to death and I don't think there is anyone who was ever satisfied with it.

But as I was watching it I couldn't help but think that this... was not a very good movie. And it was the best of the four! All the way down the line it seemed to be... lacking. You had good to great actors seeming to be going through the motions. The dialog was mostly trite. It wasn't supposed to be, but it came off as quite juvenile.

I've always thought that Chris Reeve did a good job as Superman, but I hated his Clark Kent (which isn't entirely his fault), and I've always disliked Margot Kidder's Lois.

But the most compelling thing that came across was that there was absolutely no chemistry between any of the actors in their roles. Not just Lois and Clark, but none of the supporting cast were anything more than cardboard cutouts. You never got a sense that any of these people actually had any real feelings for any of the others. And this included the villians of the piece. There is no logical reason for Miss Teschmacher to be with Lex. There is absolutely no reason for Lex to suffer the buffonery of Otis, and there is nothing that convinces me that Lex Luthor actually has a brain in his head.

Superman Returns was quite flawed, but at least it had 'matured' a bit. While I was not convinced of any real chemistry, I could at least identify some 'feelings' being played out on the screen.

I guess memories of the original films had been colored by the tinted glass of time.

Tank (who is still looking forward to checking out several of the special additions that the set offers)

I'm so excited....for Christmas I know I'll have the ultimate collection with the second movie....I'm so curious! :rolleyes:

This evening I finally saw the Donner cut. I enjoyed it, especially Lois. She seemed brighter, smarter in this version.

I was looking for the other thread on getting the Superman Ultimate Edition but couldn't find it, so this is the next best thing.

For those who got the Christopher Reeve or Ultimate Collections, two of the disks were not as advertised, disks 1 and 8. I'd just like to say that Warner replaced my disks last week so I have my full Ultimate Collection again.

The procedure was to call them to tell them you bought a bad set and tell them when and where you bought them from. They sent an envelope that you return the two bad disks. They then send you the replacements. It went very smoothly for me.

For anyone who bought one of those two collections and want to get a replacement for those two disks, I just wanted to say that Warner made good on their promises to replace them.

Roger,

Was this the thread you were looking for on the Superman Ultimate Edition collection?

Maybe you could post the same information there too.

malu