Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Take Back Every Bad Thing You Ever Said: Revenge of the Sith!

So during my week with Kaylle, Jill and Anna (and then Kathy joined us for the weekend), they made me watch all the Star Wars movies from the Episode 1 to Episode 5. I slept through Episode 1, played Trivial Persuit through Episode 2, got poked and prodded at the theater to keep me awake for Episode 3, played Eucher through Episode 4, and actually watched most of Episode 5. I found the movies boring for the most part because I really don't find fight scenes and action all that interesting. The thing I am interested in, romance, was really lacking in the movies. I thought the story of Anikan and Padme could have been done so much better. I even had a dream about it the one night after they made me watch two movies in one day. I told them and Kaylle told me to write a fanfic :p . Since I am not going to do that . . .

Maybe I will read CC's .

The books are officially licensed, but non-continuity. The books basically have their own continuity, which is kept up from author to author and series to series as best as they reasonably can. That continuity, however, was created before the rerelease of Episodes 4-6 and well before the release of Episodes 1-3. There are things in those movies which contradict various parts of the books. Some small, like the layout and look of the Senate, some large, like the interplanetary reaction to the destruction of the second Death Star and the death of the Emperor.

Basically, the books are officially licensed fanfic. Lucas's companies get a cut of the sales, but they don't consider themselves in any way bound to the stories.

Paul

Maybe it wasn't that Obi-Wan didn't remember/know about Leia, but that he discounted her. After all, we are shown that Luke is strong in the force, and Obi-Wan has seen it. But neither he nor the audience is shown how strong Leia is.

Of course, it's been a couple of years since I've seen the original trilogy, and then only with the very surface of my thinking, so I could be wrong. ("What, you mean I have to watch Star Wars? Fine. Waitaminute, if I have to watch it, why are you lying down? Bah, stupid Wookiee")

I remember the scene pretty well and I was a bit baffled, too. I had to assume that Obi-wan forgot about her at the time (it was the 2nd movie, while Leia's identify was outed in the 3rd movie) and was just being reminded about her by Yoda or that he didn't think that Leia was powerful enough to take on the Emperor and Vader.

Another possibility is that the idea was just sloshing around in Lucas's head and hadn't been fully developed yet, so Lucas hadn't yet worked out the whole storyline. But if he's had outlines of the whole nine movies from the beginning, that probably isn't the real reason.

Woohoo! I'm back! I love this thread! Be back shortly

[Edited] Okay, I'm back now. I didn't have a chance to pop back in here while I was in Maryland with Anna, Jill, and Laura, but I'm glad to be back Scrolling to see what everyone has said... And my brother is "helping" me out, so you'll see his comments too. I take no responsibility for what he says.

Paul, glad you saw/enjoyed the movie

Lol. I was more bothered by the idea that Padme was the first to originate the "there's still good in him" idea. Like it somehow cheapens the fact that Luke comes up with it himself. Have I mentioned I don't like Padme? <g>

As for him being reaccepted by Obi-Wan and Yoda, I guess holding a grudge isn't really the Jedi way. (Ian says, "Nobody cares about kids anyways! I mean, face it, they're Jedi kids, so one of their parents had to be a Jedi, so when Anakin killed off the Jedi parent he was saving the other parent from having to be a single working mother or father! I mean, really, all he was really doing was saving Coruscant's economy. And second of all, that little kid was annoying!")

In part I think Palpatine had already taken over. That's what made it so easy for him to introduce the idea of the Empire-- because they were already at that point in everything but name. (Ian says, "Did you see Pulp Fiction? He took out Samuel L. Jackson! That man's fierce! Besides, Vader has that cool breathing-thingy. If you heard that in your room in the middle of the night, you'd flip out, you know it. And Vader did all those after-school specials about how it's cool to be in the Empire.")

Yeah... I assume it's because they were trusted soldiers. The Jedi weren't looking for danger from that direction. And in the middle of a battle, which it looked like most of them were (?), a generic sense of danger is probably so commonplace that they're used to it, and automatically assume it's coming from some enemy. (Ian says, "First of all, most of those Jedi had met Threepio. And if you'd met Threepio, you'd have a strong hatred for droids too. Because of their hatred for the droids, they were using the dark side without realizing it, which made them stronger because it's easier. Second of all, they couldn't sense anything from the clones because clones don't have souls. If you're a clone and you're reading this, you shouldn't be offended because soulless creatures can't feel things.")

I was a little disappointed with Chewie's cameo, since it was so heavily advertised and then turned out to be so small. I did like the idea that Yoda was friends with him . Also, for what it's worth, that wasn't a relation of Wedge's, it was a young Captain Antilles from ANH, who is the commanding officer on the Tantive when Vader captures it (the one that gets strangled, iirc). Apparently Antilles is the equivalent of Smith in the SW universe . (Ian says, "This film is about the creation of an evil empire. If we look at what we've learned from the evil empires created in our own world (aka Disney), we learn that it's a small world after all. [...] I wonder if that makes Dreamworks Animation the Rebel Alliance?")

I don't remember a barren moon. But Yavin IV (the one in ANH) is a jungle moon, so probably not. (Ian says, "Hey, that moon prefers 'fertilly challenged.'")

That's what kills me about this movie more than anything. This incredible bond between Obi-Wan and Anakin, all the years of their history together, and Anakin's complete betrayal of that. Obi-Wan's supposed to kill him for the greater good, but how do you kill your son/brother/best friend?

(Ian says, "Her last name wasn't Skywalker. And come on, did Anakin ever seem that smart to you?")

Seriously, though, I'm not sure Vader was certain Luke was his son. During the battle in ANH, Vader can sense Luke's power, but not that he's his son. Afterwards, when he learned Luke's name, he probably suspected, but as far as he knew Padme's baby died with her. In the scene with the Emperor, Palpatine says, "I have no doubt this boy is the offspring of Anakin Skywalker." Anakin responds, "How is that possible?"

Also, Tatooine is full of names like Skywalker and Darklighter, and Anakin and his mother were slaves, so he has no idea what other family he may have had.

And, as everyone else has said, he had no reason to suspect Padme had borne twins. And Leia never did anything to make him suspect her.

This is absolutely what I believe, and I've heard a number of fans make the same assumption. So it's probably going to become fanon, if not verified canon.

I'm not really convinced he had the whole thing worked out, but I do think he knew Luke and Leia were siblings. Otherwise the Bespin telepathy scene makes no sense at all. As for "the other," I've read that in the years between TESB and RotJ, many fans postulated Han was secretly a Jedi. What an interesting story that would have made...

Oh, Laura, let me point you towards some of the Han/Leia fanfic out there

The prequel books have been written in the last few years and, as far as I know, been pretty much scripted by Lucasfilm itself. So they should fit with the prequel movies very closely.

In the post-RotJ books, Lucasfilm selects the authors and gets final approval over the storylines. I think the New Jedi Order series, released in the last few years, was even more heavily controlled by Lucasfilm. While there are some details that conflict with the movies (although some of them, I think, could be argued, but that's another thread ), they are generally consistent about major things and try to tell a consistent story. Some are obviously better than others (I'd highly recommend anything by Timothy Zahn, for instance), and because they were written by so many people there are a lot of plots that don't seem to fit with the overall scheme of things.

Most of the fans consider the novels "secondary canon." That is, anything in the novels is true unless directly contradicted by the movies. And while Lucas himself doesn't seem too concerned with matching their storylines, the author of the RotS novelization, for instance, went to a some trouble to explain elements of the movie in such a way that they might not conflict with elements of the book universe. (Ian says, "If you'll remember and include the credits, the movie starts off with writing and ends with writing, as do the books.")


Okay, that's all from me. Time to post before this giant storm kills the power!

Kaylle (and Ian)

I knew there was a reason I liked Ian. Hey, Ian, how would you feel if I gave you a couple of robot pals (one tall and skinny, the other short and round) and sent you to an isolated theater so you could watch the movie and comment on it without disturbing anyone?

Kaylle, I'm not sure that you've mentioned a dislike of Padme before... Can't say I blame you, though.

Yes, Palpatine had pretty much taken over the senate by the end of the last movie. I'm wondering more about the general populace accepting a clone on every corner and a Star Destroyer in every orbit, but I suppose such changes can happen in surprisingly short times.

Still not sure about the order 66 thing, but your explanations do help.

As for Chewie, everyone seems to have reacted differently. Mom liked it and thought it was cool. You thought it was too short. I thought it was kind of cool, but kind of gratuitous. If he'd had more significance, I would have had an easier time accepting it, but this seemed more like "oh, well, we have to fit Chewie in somewhere... uhm, there he is!" And yeah, knowing that Chewie knows Yoda is cool, but also got me really confused. I guess they never met in the other trillogy, but it took me out of the movie for a while before I could mentally establish that.

Thanks for the explanation about Antillies. I guess this one was the Lesser Antillies, then.

Yavin was a jungle moon? I know Endor was. I'm used to thinking of Yavin Base as carved out of rock. Can't remember seeing much of it outside the hanger, other than an electronic representation on the Death Star screen. Anyway, there was a brief shot of Bail and everyone gathering over some kind of moon or shipyard or something. It might well have been in orbit around Couruscant. I was just wondering. It wasn't on screen for more than 1 second, though, and never named. <shrug>

Yes, Obi Wan/Anakin was the best character relationship in the movie (or either of the previous two). In no small part because of Ewan, of course. Gave a lot of depth and richness to their battle (and the build-up to it) and to the battle in Episode IV.

Anakin did meet Owen and Beru, didn't he? Thing is, though, he didn't know that the baby survived. Last he heard, Padme was dead. (Mom was wondering why his second question wasn't "And the baby?" I didn't have a good answer, other than to say that the scene, understandbly, cut off while he was still dealing with the news about Padme.) So, he may well not have known to look for Luke until they met face to face. Going by that assumption, however, is what led me to ask why he didn't know Leia. The fact that she hadn't trained or developed her powers is a help. Not entirely convincing, but workable.

Personally, I do like that theory. Makes for a very cool little twist.

Han as a Jedi? lol, that would have been something to see.

Thanks for the explanation about the books. About what I thought, but you know a lot more than I.

Hope you had fun in Maryland.

Paul

Woke up with a random thought, decided I might as well share it. Do please correct me if I'm wrong.

I was trying to think of a list of who in the Star Wars universe we could reliably say had seen the rise and fall of the Empire. That's probably a relatively long list, but in thinking about it, I realized something else. The only characters who appeared (in some form or other) in all 6 movies were:

Anakin
Palpatine
Obi Wan
C-3PO
R2-D2

Yoda wasn't in Episode IV, and even if Jango Fett had been in Episode I, I don't think he'd really count.

Of those 5 (or 6, if we decide to include Yoda anyway, just because he's Yoda), only two survived: C-3PO and R2-D2. Of those two, only one has a complete memory. Artoo is the only one whom we know to have lived to see the rise and fall of the empire, to have played a significant role in both events, and to have survived doing so with his memory intact.

(Others, like Chewie, were around and survived, but were on the fringes at the beginning or at some major point. Artoo is the only one, as far as I can tell, to have seen it all.)

Kind of cool, I think.

Paul

Another interesting thing to note, expanding on what Paul wrote, is that Anthony Daniels (C3PO) is the only actor to have appeared in all six movies.

And just so everyone knows and can nag *ahem* bat their eyelashes at her, Kaylle recently had a brilliant idea for a fic entitled: "How I Saved the Galaxy, by R2D2."

~Anna

I didn't much like it. But it was the best of the three prequels.

No matter how lame the romantic dialog in the latter 3, Harrison carried it off beautifully. He could have carried me off then too. I developed a deep and long lasting crush on him, because empire coincided with my youthful awakening of the lure of sexy men. (I was 11 when star wars came out. 13, I guess when I saw empire?)

Lab. Padme is very close to my grandmother's name (Padma).

A comment to a *much* earlier post... picturing Labrat in a gorilla costume. It actually makes me think of Harry Potter #5, when they mentioned the poltergeist shutting the cat in a suit of armor--repeatedly. That's rather how I picture a small white rat in a gorilla costume, only minus the pitiful echoing meows.

I've got a question about the Star Wars books. I haven't read them in ages, but back when I discovered Star Wars (well, I'd seen them as a child, but saw them again and fell in love with them when I was 12 or 13), I read a ton of the sequel novels. Many, many of them seemed to be consistent about Han and Leia having three children... twins, Jaina (sp?) and Jacen, and then a son Anakin. Is this based on something official from George Lucas, or purely "licensed fanfic" mythology? Or am I mistaken, and it was only one series that had those children, and others have different children/different names? If it is common among all, is it required? I'm just unclear on how that all works.

Han and Leia had 3 kids. Jacen (can't remember the proper spelling...), Jaina, and Anakin. The first two were twins, then Anakin was born a few years later.

The kids are not from anything official by Lucas. They're, as Kaylle said, secondary canon. Not official, but never officially contradicted, and consistent from novel to novel and author to author.

Paul

Back again, briefly I saw the movie twice more last week (people I know keep asking me to come along when they see it! Really, it's not my fault!) and now I know what barren moon you're talking about, Paul. Apparently it's really an asteroid field that used to be a planet, and the settlement there is called Polis Massa. No idea why that's useful

As for the kids, yes, they're Jaina and Jacen (the twins, born 5 years after Return of the Jedi) and Anakin (a year and a half younger). All the books are consistent amongst themselves, but if George decides to write 7, 8, and 9 they'll probably disappear

Kaylle