Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Off Topic Crappy Stuff

I know this is a suckie subject, but maybe someone may pick up something. At work we were talking about rape and related horrible acts. I taught some of the girls a couple of moves to maybe help them out. My friend passed this on to me with the same idea - to maybe help at least one person.

Through a rapists eyes

A group of rapists and date rapists in prison were interviewed on what they look for in a potential victim and here are some
interesting facts:
1) The first thing men look for in a potential victim is hairstyle. Theyare most likely to go after a woman with a ponytail, bun, braid or otherhairstyle that can easily be grabbed.
They are also likely to go after awoman with long hair. Women with short hair are not common targets.
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2) The second thing men look for is clothing. They will look for
womenwho's clothing is easy to remove quickly. Many of them carry scissors around to cut clothing.
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3) They also look for women on their cell phone, searching through their purse or doing other activities while walking because they
are off guardand canbe easily overpowered.
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4) The time of day men are most likely to attack and rape a woman is in theearly morning, between 5 and 8:30 a.m.
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5) The number one place women are abducted from/attacked at is grocerystore parking lots. Number two is office parking lots/garages. Number threeis public restrooms.
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6) The thing about these men is that they are looking to grab a woman andquickly move her to a second location where they don't
have to worry aboutgetting caught.
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7) Only 2% said they carried weapons because rape carries a 3-5 yearsentence but rape with a weapon is 15-20 years.
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8) If you put up any kind of a fight at all, they get discouraged because it only takes a minute or two for them to realize that going after youisn't worth it because it will be time consuming.
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9) These men said they would not pick on women who have umbrellas, or othersimilar objects that can be used from a distance, in their
hands. Keys arenota deterrent because you have to get really close to the attacker to usethem
as a weapon. So, the idea is to convince these guys you're not worth it
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10) Several defense mechanisms he taught us are: If someone is followingbehind you on a street or in a garage or with you in an elevator or stairwell, look them in the face and ask them a
question, like what time isit, or make general small talk, I can't believe it is so cold out here orwe're in for a bad winter. Now you've seen their face and could identifythem in a lineup, you lose appeal as a target.
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11) If someone is coming toward you, hold out your hands in front of youand yell Stop or Stay back! Most of the rapists this man talked to said hey'd leave a woman alone if she yelled or showed
that she would not beafraid to fight back. Again, they are looking for an EASY target.
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12) If you carry pepper spray (this instructor was a huge advocate of itand carries it with him wherever he goes), yelling I HAVE
PEPPER SPRAY andholding it out will be a deterrent.
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13) If someone grabs you, you can't beat them with strength but you can byoutsmarting them. If you are grabbed around the waist from behind, pinchthe attacker either under the arm between the elbow and armpit or in theupper inner thigh -- HARD. One woman in a class this guy taught told himshe used the underarm pinch on a
guy who was trying to date rape her andwas so upset she broke
through the skin and tore out muscle strands the guyneeded
stitches. Try pinching yourself in those places as hard as you
canstand it; it hurts.
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14) After the initial hit, always go for the goin. I know from a
particularly unfortunate experience that if you slap a guy's parts
it isextremely painful. You might think that you'll anger the guy
and make him want to hurt you more, but the thing these rapists
told our instructor is that they want a woman who will not cause a
lot of trouble. Start causing trouble, & he's out of there.
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15) When the guy puts his hands up to you, grab hs first two
fingers and bend them back as far as possible with as much
pressure pushing down on them as possible. The instructor did it
to me without using much pressure, and I ended up on my knees and
both knuckles cracked audibly.
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16) Of course the things we always hear still apply. Always be
aware of your surroundings, take someone with you if you can and
if you see any odd behavior, don't dismiss it, go with your
instincts. You may feel a little silly at the time, but you'd feel
much worse if the guy really was trouble.


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Unfortunately, where I live pepper spray is illegal. I guess that's a good and a bad thing. Also, it bites that some people may wear a cup, so you can't kick 'em there.
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My husband grew up going to an inner city high school, one where violence wasn't uncommon (he tells of entering a bathroom between classes, then backing out quickly and having to tell a teacher about blood everywhere -- there'd been a knifing), and this is something that he taught me, too. He's not a big guy -- average height, but slight build -- but whenever we'd be on the street and someone a little menacing-looking would be walking towards us, he'd always look him straight in the eye and say, "hey, how's it goin'?" The guy would usually just nod back and that would be that. Most of those guys probably wouldn't have given us a second thought anyway, but just in case, he's made it known that he's not afraid to talk to them -- and that he's willing to be polite to them -- and that he's seen their face. He says this helped him get through high school without getting beat up. <g>

Of course, sometimes male ego gets in the way -- he got mugged a couple years before I met him, on the steps of his college dorm (same city he grew up in) and was stupid enough to fight back. Got his head bashed in with a baseball bat (there were two of them -- he punched one in the face but the other came up from behind and bashed him). He said he realized later how stupid it was, but he'd just come from the ATM and had $100 in his wallet and he wasn't going to let them have it ... and he did indeed keep his wallet when his football player roommates heard the commotion and came out with baseball bats of their own. <g> No comment on the fact that the ER visit probably cost his parents more than $100.

Kathy

Interesting, Roo. But what bothers me about this kind of thing - and not getting at you here at all, but at the study itself - is that as usual with half the advice out there the onus is on the woman to live her entire life to account for the fact that she might/maybe/could be a victim some day. No thought given to perhaps tackling the problem at its source. With the culprit, not the victim.

It strikes me as faintly ridiculous to suggest that a woman should make sure she always has her hair cut short, rather than a style of her own choosing, should always make sure she has a chaparone with her when she sets foot outside, etc etc. Just on the offchance that perhaps one day some man will decide she's a target.

It's like the police advice routinely trotted out when a serial rapist hits the news. All women should stay indoors. Gee, ever thought of making sure all men stay indoors till the culprit is caught? Just once? That would solve the problem, wouldn't it? Why should women have their lives restricted because some men can't behave themselves? I know, I know, it's only practical. But it still ticks me off, the way it's women in a community who are expected to rearrange their entire lives and make themselves prisoners in their own homes to solve such a problem.

Last year, in Glasgow, we had a spate of attacks of male rape on young men in the city's clubs and bars. Did the police suggest on the news that all young men should stay indoors until the culprit was caught? That they should stay away from clubs and bars? That they should never walk the city streets at night alone? They did not! They began extra patrols of the city and paid special attention to clubs and bars.

Anyway...rant over. <g> This is just one that strikes a nerve and is a bit of a bugbear with me. As you might have been able to tell. <G>

Which isn't to say at all, that all such advice isn't valuable. Some of it is mainly commonsense and unfortunately so long as society continues to leave the victim to do the hard work, a sad necessity. It just makes sense not to go traipsing around a city car park that has no lighting, much as one might wish to have the freedom to walk where one chooses, whenever one chooses. I'm ranting more from a philosophical angle here than a practical one. <g> Practically, women just have to shrug their shoulders, sigh, accept that society expects them to manage their lives to take account of becoming a victim of deviants in a way that men aren't and get on with it. It's bloody unfair. But then what else is new there? So is much of life.

LabRat

This actually one thing I've worried about since I started college. I often walk to and from class alone. This semester, I'm even taking a night course from the school's Central Campus, which is located in downtown Charlotte, NC (which, to me, is a fairly big city). Most of the advice, I've taken to heart no matter where I am: stay alert, look around and don't keep your head down, move quickly and confidently (I'm a fast walker anyway). Keep your keys handy, so you're not standing somewhere digging for your keys in your purse (I keep mine in my pocket). If you need anything while you're walking from car to building or vice versa, keep that handy too before you start walking.

It's sad that I have to be aware of the possibilities, no matter where I go. But I've just become so used to it, I don't think about it much. Which is probably sad in itself.

I know this is true, not from experience obviously but from being a witness on at least two occasions to guys convulsing in pain on the floor (usually having been hit by a girl). I have heard, though, that if you hit a guy in the groin you could just make him angry with you, and so the smart thing to do would be to go for the eyes. I mean, when you have something in your eye you automatically forget everything and start rubbing your eyes.

People who know me know that I am extremely paranoid and avoid all potentially dangerous situations when possible. Recently I had to walk at about midnight alone home, and it really is scary to think that any person around (not that there were that many) could grab you. Especially when you are 15 years old. Not something I like doing.

Julie

Indeed. We had a woman get attacked coming out of our grocery store at 8:45am a few months back. She only ended up getting mugged, but she got a good whack on the head.

Just to throw in some defense mechanisms from my Tae Kwon Do class:

1. On the top of the hand, there are pressure points between every single bone. So if someone grabs you, make a fist and pound the top of their hand as hard as you can. It'll make their hand open up.

2. There's also a good pressure point under your nose of all places. That strip of skin and...stuff that splits your nostrils in half is where it's at. If you feel it, there should be a roundish bone at the bottom. You have to be close to do this, but take a thumb and just jam it on that spot and smash it in for all it's worth. Our instructor demonstrated it on our black belts and brought them to their knees.


JD

Wow, this is gonna be a long post. Kudos to anyone who makes it all the way through!

A lot of this information seems to come from a popular e-mail warning that makes the cyber rounds every so often.

While some of it is good advice, such as #16, but some of it is just plain false.

Absolutely false, rapists look for a victim that is accessible to them and in a situation (unguarded, quiet/dark streets) that they can control.

Again, false. Overly complicated clothes won't protect a potential victim any better than overalls or a skirt would.

This has validity too it. Headphones are even worse because at least with a cell phone you could tell the other person to call the police.

Early morning is one of the times one is least likely to be raped. The 1994 U.S. Justice Department's Sex Offenses and Offenders: An Analysis of Data on Rape and Sexual Assault states that "About two thirds of rapes/sexual assaults were found to occur during the 12 hours from 6 p.m. to 6 a.m.". So basically, when it's dark out.

While parking lots, especially empty ones, aren't the safest of places and one should be careful -- this is also false.

From the same Department of Justice report, most rape victims (60%+) are raped in their house or the house of someone they know. The reason for this is the sad fact that most victims were attacked by someone they knew.

This brings up an important point -- one of the things that annoy me about movie and television is this common scenario: Woman is accosted by someone with a weapon and he tells her to "get in the car" she complies. That is the absolutely worst thing you could ever do. If there was a possibility that the attacker would your hurt on a street or in a public place then he will definitely attack and probably kill you when he has you alone. By whatever means possible, a victim should not allow themselves to be transported from one place to another.

This is where it contradicts itself. What happen to all those rapists carrying scissors? Aren't those possible weapons?

The stats of rapists who use weapons is higher -- usually from 10% to 15%. The majority don't and this probably has something to do with the fact that as I mentioned most rapists were someone the victim knew and trusted -- they rely on coercion not just force.

Taking a self-defense class is great step towards becoming more empowered and even more prepared should the worse case scenario happen and you are attacked. There are even forms of self-defense that can help you defend yourself if your attacker has a weapon, like Krav Maga , which was developed by the Israeli military and is used in many Law Enforcement training classes.

While all cases differ and sometimes not fighting is the better choice (the main goal is always to stay alive) this is generally true. Especially in cases of acquaintance rape.

All of these objects can be a great help but they can all be used against you as well. The only thing a person should rely on in a situation like this is their wits.


Rape prevention while an important (thank you Roo for bringing it up) can be a touchy one for the reasons LabRat mentioned. Much of the responsibility seems to focus on the woman to prevent the attack but not the man. If we were to follow the errant belief that most rapists are some crazy guy hiding in the bushes waiting to strike this would make sense. Unfortunately, most rapists are just ordinary men. You see them everyday, go to school with them, work with them, talk to them you may even be friends with them. Just as we need to teach women that they should prevent and fight off these attacks there needs equal emphasis put on men on how to hear the word "No." I think this page and the next sums up my feelings on this.

There is this incredible book that deals with the prevention of violence, some of you may have heard of it already because it's pretty famous, it's called The Gift of Fear by Gavin DeBecker. This books talks about how fear is a survival gift and we can rely on it to help us get out of violent situations. the author, DeBecker, works with federal agencies to find ways to asses violent threats.

I love this book, I've recommended it to everyone I know -- male and female. I think this book can and has saved lives and I would recommend everyone who has stopped by this thread (because you're obviously interested in this topic) to read it.

Just some thoughts........irratic and simple.

I have super long hair. Blah.

I have practiced different types martial arts since I was ten (I'm almost 27).

I lift weights.

I am short.

I have bad hearing.

Just some things to know about me.....

Some of these things may make me vulnerable and some not. Either way, this sort of thing bothers me b/c I don't know if I could defend myself when it would count.

Where I live it gets dark early and thus light late in the morning. I work the graveyeard shift and have seen some poor girls get hurt during some of my shifts. Broken heels and torn dresses. It breaks my heart.

I do beleive long hair can be used against you (I use it when I spar) but isn't a main reason for for all rapists when picking a target of course. I intend on keeping my long hair.

When I fight, I like trying to grab the back of the knee and pinch the tendons. If you were in a real fight you'd try to pull 'em out. It caused the legs to go limp. Poking the eyes is awsome. Unlike the groin and inner thigh, the eyes are more delicate and it is a natural defence mechansim to pull you hands up (in almost all cases).

It is depressing to see some people think tae bo is a martial arts. Anyone trying to learn a martial art - don't just go to the class and learn a tid bit or two. I've seen people think they learn something, but do not have the body strength to carry it through and end up in a more precarious position. Yes, every little bit helps, but why not really protect yourself? Work out.

I do believe that women and men who do rape others, or may in the future, need to be helped. There needs to be preventative measures taken on both sides. Unfortunately, people are more likely to listen to preventative measures. Those who are doing the raping are more likely being irrational or rational only in their mind.

When I did my BA in psych, I interviewed young males who had urges to force themselves on others. The reasons varied. Anger - why not I'm a male - I need it - curiosity - entertainment/excitment.... Then you could go to underlying causes - antisocial behaviour, genetic make-up, sexual abuse as a child, witnessed abuse.... It would be more difficult to attack the root cause for these boys' deviance. Protection on the potential victims end is easier to pin down and promote. Yes there are laws and you can educate, but those who rape are more complex than the protection methods.

I could go on forever and look at it from different angles, but I'll end here b/c I'm not a very good writer.

Thanks for the responses. I love to generate discussion and get people's mind's awake!

I'd like to second Birdie's recommendation for 'The Gift of Fear' by Gavin DeBecker. This is an awesome book full of valuable advice and insights.

I've given away two copies of it to people who, I felt, needed to read this, and I'm glad that Birdie's recommendation reminded me that I have to find another copy of it. I want my daughter to read it, and my son as well.

Irene

I'm gonna have to read this book!

The best advice I've ever heard if you know you're going to be out after dark is try to park under a street light and when you leave you car, push both of the front seats forward. That way, no one can break into the car and hide in the backseat without you seeing them.

Also, my husband once told me that a very sensitive part of a man is the neck...specifically the Adam's Apple. If you punch him there he won't be able to breath and if you hit hard enough, you could even kill him. Not that I'd ever advocate killing someone...but if he's on top of me and I can't reach anything else...I would not hesitate!!