Lois & Clark Forums Forums General Discussion Lois & Clark Double dating

I'll just wonder is it common in the US that a woman date several guys at once? I was thinking on Lois going out with both Scardino and Clark.

Personally, I can't imagine I would continue pursuing a woman, that knew of my interest, and still "explored her options" with other guys.

In some parts of society, yes, it's done sommewhat frequently but usually not if they're really close. It's more of a casual thing. Besides, Lois was never really dating two at once. Dan was just being used for the most part.

She wasn't? She alternated dates with Dan then one with Clark, she even complained about Dan's poor sportsmanship when he turns up on Clark's day.

Yes, she used Scardino to get a reaction from Clark.(not the nicest thing to do either BTW, IMO) But he took it seriously, in the end he even was ready to leave Metropolis because he thought she had chosen Scardino.

I've difficulty seing any guy I know stand for being stringed along that way.

I have difficulty seeing how smart girls can date idiots who don't treat them right. And yet, it happens all the time (and I've seen guy friends date absolutely horrible girls too).

That said, the fact that he stands that is a bit of an exageration, not many would. But then again, the series does gesture to some sort of deep romantic link between them. And we know Clark has taken a lot that normal people wouldn't necessarily take.

Personally, I find a more psychological and less romantic view more interesting, but *shrug*. I'm also curious about what other people think.

In my single days, either party was free to date other people until you became exclusive, as long as everyone was up front about the fact. Lois and Clark weren't exclusive, in my opinion, until the "next step" conversation in WWW. Previously, they had a great date and a great kiss, but so what? That isn't binding, especially considering how Clark went into a funk after Mayson died and then wouldn't share the reason he was continually running off. In those circumstances, I would have gone out with other men, too.

I've neve been much of a dater, so who am I to know?

Anyway, to me it feels totally wrong to date two different guys at the same time. I mean, if you want to find out about someone, you can still meet him (or her) in a friendly manner, maybe with several other like-minded friends. Dating someone is very exclusive to me, even if it isn't official. Thus, I feel that Lois actions are wrong, and her leading on of Dan only to get back at Clark is doubly wrong.

Well I might be more straight then I thought but I most assuredly wouldn’t book a date with another girl the next day if I had had a great date and kiss.

No it’s not binding but feelings are not a contract. If you really love and hope to get in a relationship can you just turn that off and try it with another guy? And sure Lois had reason to be disappointed and if she had put Clark against the wall and declared that it was over I wouldn’t say anything if she dated Scardino the next night.

Well, neither would I and neither does Lois. Let me elaborate a little more on my previous post.

Look at the exchange from Resurrection:

Then they get interrupted and Clark never responds. Even so, when Dan asks her out, she tells him she is seeing Clark. But here's the kicker: Aside from an offhand comment about a movie, Clark doesn't ask her out again. Lois even tells Sarah in T:JO:

Meanwhile, Dan continues to throw himself at Lois, and Clark continues not to ask Lois out! He gets cranky, but he doesn't say, "Go out with me, not him!" So for all Lois knows, maybe Clark doesn't want her anymore. She is an insecure being, after all.

And the icing on the cake: She tries to talk to him not once but *twice* about their relationship and he takes off on her.

So let's sum up from Lois's POV: Great date and great kiss, but Clark doesn't seem to agree. He's obviously hung up on Mayson's death. He doesn't ask her out again. He won't talk about their relationship, and when Lois tries, he takes off!

Meanwhile, standing right there, is a man who does want to go out with her and makes that very plain. So finally, two or three weeks after her date with Clark, Lois goes on a date with Dan.

Now, really, given all these circumstances, can you honestly blame Lois for doing what she did?

I guess not. But I don't have to like it.

Bingo. Also regarding the script quoted, a week or plus is the rule I sort of follow. If it's over a week, and the person in question and I haven't made any new plans, I don't think either of us are obligated to sit by the phone waiting.

It's interesting that you used the word 'persuing' because that's a big factor. I can't speak for my last date, but as far as I know, he and I aren't actively persuing each other right now. Now if I knew he *was*, I'm not sure I'd go out with someone else until I figured everything out. In the beginning I would have assumed Lois knew that Clark was persuing her, but as time went on, she clearly felt like "yesterday's news..." And suddenly, here Dan comes, sticking around for the end of the conversation and actively asking her

Great topic,
JD

This is a fun topic Arawn - especially considering the next couple of parts that Sue and I will be posting on the story we're working on. Very interesting...

But Lisa, I LOVED your explanation, and I completely agree with it -- as much as I agree with Sue and think that Dan is smarmy (oh, but he does have a cute smile as Nancy pointed out) and I wouldn't want to see Lois end up with him... I can at least see her reasoning behind what she did.

I mean, here was this guy who was tripping all over himself to be with her - paying her compliments -- on not just her eyes but also her cooking, no less -- and then there was Clark, sullen and sulking over in the corner... not saying anything and constantly running off on her.

Well said.

-- DJ

Lisa, you present a stellar defence for Lois and the fact that I tend to fast forward through the episodes have lead me to consider Lois more harshly then I would if I taken account of the time.

I hadn’t considered this. Then again it could be pride,
- If you don’t care more for me then by all means date the guy(bitch).
And Clark isn’t a guy that impose his desires on others.
But I can see the “not ready to fight” angle. Also remember it was not just him that blew hot and cold, Lois was slamming the door on their first date etc.

Still, for me, a caring relationship is either or, if she had dropped Clark whose behaviour, as you show, isn’t that of a man madly in love, and gone with Scardino that would be OK with me, but then I would expect her to date him exclusively until one of them declared he/she wasn’t interested anymore. It’s this accepting dates from both men back and forth that puzzles me. IME playing partners against each other never leads to anything good in the long run.

I was just curious if that was American phenomena, it’s seems to me a relic of a time when women where trying to get the best “catch” in marriage, not fall in love. Thinking about it, in my culture it would take a really desperate person to accept a date with someone that were out kissing another date in between. And people around would disapprove and feel sorry for you.

Okay, so this was from a while ago, but I found it interesting. I would definitely deny that it's an "American phenomenon", because I know plenty of people from other countries who have dated more than one person at once. I also think that this is by no means an exclusively female phenomenon.

If cultural differences mean that not all American women see getting hitched as their ultimate goal in life, then there may be cultural factors at work here. I realise it probably wasn't your intention, but your wording made it sound like you feel that women are only interested in "catching the best man", regardless of feelings or falling in love. That's a pretty cynical view of women in general and of American women in particular. I think I can speak for many women who are in tenuous careers or long-term academic pursuits and often date because they want to go out with a friend of the opposite sex, but they know that it's unrealistic to expect it to develop into anything more based on the nature of their career plans. There's a difference between a mutually-agreed date wherein the participants have no long-term expectations and a date where at least one person hopes it might turn into something more. Hence the difference between dating as fun and dating as intent.

Some people view dating as a way to get to know people with the potential for there to be something more. In this case, dating two people at once wouldn't be a big deal, because it's something like going out to eat with more than one friend in a week. In this scenario, if the woman found herself falling in love, the normal course of action would be to let the other party down gently. Other people view dating as something you only do when you already know the person and are ready to be in a serious relationship with them. It really depends, both on the relationship you've had before the date and on how you view dating as a whole.

It's a little harsh to think that Lois is some sort of flakey woman who blows hot and cold, because she had a hard time choosing between two men. True, she had feelings for Clark but as other posters have pointed out, they didn't seem to be returned. Dan is the PERFECT rebound guy. He's agressively pursuing her, making her feel attractive, but he's also not someone she could ever have a real relationship with (his job, their totally incompatible personalities and so forth). She may not consciously realise this, but I think the show portrays Lois as a woman who is often motivated by fears and insecurities that she isn't even aware of.

Then, when she discovers Clark is still interested, she's stuck. She doesn't trust him, because she's afraid he's going to leave again, but he's the man she really wants. She's already in a relationship with Dan, and part of her thinks the safest bet is to remain in that. She's torn, and that's why she seems to be bouncing back and forth: because she is, emotionally.

So are there American women that this happens to? Yes. Does that make it an American phenomenon? No. And a woman with as many choices as women have these days is bound to run into some dicey issues in the dating world. That doesn't make her Hugh Heffner or a cynical con-artist out to get what she can from men.

I think you may just have hit upon the answer as to why people view this differently. I, like Lisa, have always felt you were free to date other people until you were exclusive (and, of course, both of you are up front about that). But some people seem not to consider it 'dating' until the relationship is exclusive.

Oh. It happens here too, just that I believe most people would disapprove, unless you are dating by contact ads or something.

You are correct, I don’t feel that. Of course, guys with resources seems to get more love though.

Yes absolutely, but to me this seems to be the latter and Lois is playing them against each other, and they, and she, knows it.

Hot and cold was in reference to how she treated Clark, the door slamming, giving him the cold shoulder when he tried to talk about it etc.

So she is feeling low, then it’s OK to string Dan along when it’s obvious he wants something more? That seems rather mean to me.
And Clark certainly takes Scardino seriously and demonstrates that in many ways.

It certainly didn’t think it was an exclusive American phenomena, its just that in the series no one seemed to have problem with her playing two guys against each other. In my culture people would find it heartless. So I thought that perhaps this was cultural thing.

When I was younger, I felt that, if you had feelings for someone (and they had feelings for you) and you had kissed them at least (hugging and hand-holding don't count), then that was a relationship, and it would've felt like cheating to me if I'd seen other people at the time.

In fact, my boyfriend at the time tried to get me to see other guys, because he felt that it was wrong for us to date exclusively when we were so young (we were 15). I was stubborn, and really didn't want to cheat on him, as I thought I'd be doing, despite the fact that he was okay with it--I felt I'd be betraying my feelings for him.

BUT, nowadays, I kind of wish I HAD seen other guys, because during that time I was dating him, I wasn't really meeting any new guys and therefore wasn't able to cultivate friendships with them, which affects my current dating scene, in that I have none at the moment.

Also, in the intervening years, I've dated guys as a "friends with benefits" (up to almost anything except sex), and I've also gone out with guys who are strictly friends for lunch or a movie or something.

I have yet to go on a friendly outing with more than one guy in the same time frame, but if it was a strictly friends thing, I wouldn't have a problem with it.

However, if it was clear that either of us had feelings for the other, then that, in my mind still makes us exclusive to me. Unless he had made it abundantly clear (he'd have to actually SAY the words) that he didn't have feelings for me, then I'd treat the whole thing like we were exclusive, and I'd be kind of hurt if he wouldn't.

Outings with guys who are strictly friends would be okay I guess, but if the guy I had feelings for ever asked about them, I'd be certain I was strictly honest about the other guys being only friends.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say is that now that I think about it, Lois's dating Dan and Clark in the same time frame kinda bugs me too.

She had feelings for him, and Clark hadn't said ANYTHING along the lines of "I don't have feelings for you, Lois," (in fact, he hadn't had a chance to say much of anything at all), so although I know WHY she dated Dan (because of Clark's not saying anything at all), it still sticks in my craw.

Good to hear. I always get worried when it starts to seem like we're all a bunch of gold-diggers looking to score!

It definitely bothers me, not the least because Dan Scardino isn't even as charming as Lex Luthor could be, and I just don't see the appeal. He looks like a muppet, dresses like a clown, and is as annoying as nails on a chalkboard--I'm clueless as to why any woman in her right mind would date him. Although, MLT and Gerry Anklewicz redeemed him somewhat by giving him a partner and making him act more rational in their story: Roadtrekking.

But I do think it fits in Lois's bizarre psyche that she'd behave that way. There are a lot of things that Lois does (and Clark) in the series that I find questionable so I just add one more to the list. I'd like to think I make better choices in my life, but I'd really only be kidding myself by thinking that

Also, what about Clark and Mayson then?

Although we don't see Clark dating Mayson on screen, she felt confident enough about him to ask him to go away for a weekend and later to ask him directly about his feelings for her at lunch in the last ep we saw her in. (can you tell I can't remember ep titles? ) So what had Clark done to give her that confidence?

As well, Lois seemed to think Clark was seeing Mayson when he asked her out to the Pearl Jam concert. At that point, isn't it likely that Clark is seeing two women, one of whom he claims that he has loved "from the beginning"? (Or is it that Mayson is just a tad ... odd and we shouldn't take her perception of what is happening with Clark as what was *really* in fact happening?)

Now, if Clark was really in love with Lois all along (and he claimed he was) then what was going on with Mayson? And is that really any different from Lois and Dan?

Adding here, that neither Lois or Clark impressed me here:) (or should that be the show's writers?)

c

You just made be waste an hour. :p

As far as I can tell Clark never dated them at the same time, in fact there is only two episodes were he could, and one doesn’t feature Mayson.

Well nothing we see on screen. From the first time they meet she is all over him.

Call my office in the morning so we can arrange a deposition. And if you need to reach me during off hours, my home phone's on the back.

The she ambushes him in his home and straight out ask him for a dinner date. At this time he isn’t involved with Lois and I get the feeling he likes Mayson and doesn’t want hurt her ego. Then on the date Mayson perceive that Clark uses it pump her for information and leaves. and then I don’t think we see Mayson until The eyes have it. Were she suddenly invite him to her cabin, for something everyone including Clark only takes one way.

My interpretation is that Clark in the interim felt bad and had tried to smooth things over after the dinner date. Otherwise inviting a guy that you have meet privately two times seems rather risky.(then again she seems to know what she wants and might have checked out Clark with others, and I doubt the ladies here find it inconceivable that she cut the corners on his behalf. )

In the episode before that, Lois thought Clark and Mayson was about to go to that cabin together. We know that he was about to reject her offer, but Lois heard him accept.

After they had started dating Clark does everything get Mayson out of the picture.
The fact that he stood her up for the cabin trip didn’t have seen to discouraged her much.
In Top Copy it is Lois that makes him contact her for the story. Which ends with the uncomfortable

I'll uhhh... I'll call you.

MAYSON
I'd like to talk. Things got left kind of up in the air between us...

CLARK
I know, I apologize, I will call.

Which could mean several things but I deem it likely that Clark would explain how things stand.

Then Clark takes Lois side over the stolen beeper, I pretty big hint on how he thinks.

Still Mayson is not discouraged she ask Clark out for a play, and when before he has stammered out his (I presume no) Lois has done it for him.

Then after L&C first date Mayson comes and ask him for lunch, AGAIN Clark starts with his I’m sorry, speech. But this time Lois shoves him into Mayson’s arms and he gets mightily confused.

Then Clark and Mayson have a heart to heart were he seems to be in a bind over whom to choose.
I like you, I like Lois (Or possible whom to not hurt.) This is the only time Clark seem to be inconsiderate. It looks like he encourage Mayson to have hope, like he want to keep her in reserve if Lois dumps him. But on the whole I think this has more to do with Lois skittish behaviour then anything else.

Good call, Carol. The only difference I could possibly see would be that Lois and Clark hadn't actually been out on a date at that point. But I definitely got the feeling that Clark was intrigued by Mayson enough to consider dating her even though he had feelings for Lois, and at several points he seemed to be using Mayson's blatant attraction to him to get under Lois's skin...which is only a step away from the Lois/Dan/Clark situation.