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Pulitzer
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Pulitzer
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Do we know what kind of fertility problem did Clark have?
Thank you,
AnnaBtG.
What we've got here is failure to communicate...
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Top Banana
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The problem was that his body works entirely differently than Lois's because of his alien origins and thus didnt really match enough to conceive a baby.
Mulder: Imagine if you could come back and take out five people who had caused you to suffer. Who would they be?
Scully: I only get five?
Mulder: I remembered your birthday this year, didn't I, Scully?
(The X-Files)
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Hack from Nowheresville
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You know how different species of animals generally can't conceive? (i.e. dogs and cats) It was kind of like that.......I think. 
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Kerth
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Kerth
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SOmething along the lines of that but perhaps through genetic engineering it could happen I know that a mule is the result of a genetic experiment because it is a cross between a male horse and a female donkey it cannot reproduce though because of the difference in the chromosomes or something it gets rather technical so I won't really explain it. In the case of Clark I think the alien origin thing plays a part, but it would raise the question as to why he was sent to Earth in the first place.
The best and most beautiful things in the world cannot be seen or even touched they must be felt with the heart
Helen Keller
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Top Banana
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Ok, these are the words of a biomedical enineer who has written at least 2 stories on the subjece . . . take my words with a grain of salt. Even though I still maintain that Dr. Klein is a BME, he really didn't act like a knowledgable one in the series in this regard. 1. We could think of Clark as an entirely differnet species. But then how would be and Lois be able to mate at all? Someone that LOOKS so human must have a certain similarity to the human genome. I wonder if it really is enough of a difference to make them infertile. 2. How are his superpowers generated? I've always looked at it as one mutation in one chromosome or several small mutations. I think he still has the same 46 chromosomes, but maybe a few genes that have never been seen before. Or else he wouldn't LOOK human! Those mutations might make him a slightly different species, but he is a lot more closely related to humans than something like apes! I think he would be something like homo kryptonious rather than homo sapien -- and that's only if there was enough mutation to make him a different species. 3. When Dr. Klein said "looks promising", I assumed that meant that Clark had basically a human genetic structure with several mutations. I thought it was more that there was someting wrong with his sperm (sort of like how Yvonne addressed the problem in 'Kidnapped'  ) I think with Clark's fertility problem, there are a lot of different ways to interpret what the show did. 1. Which I don't afree with at all -- Clark is an alien and therefore a different species and can not reproduce. 2. There is something wrong with Clark's ability to have children not at all related to the fact that he is an alien and possibly a different species. 3. Any other reason of your choosing. Personally, I have always thought Dr. Klein was terribly mistaken and if they would have gone on for one more season, they would have been able to better understand what happened. But, since they didn't, that leaves it up to us fanfic writers . And I think almost any explanation anyone gives has the potential to be valid as long as you have some support behind it. - Laura
Laura "The Yellow Dart" U. (Alicia U. on the archive)
"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles." -- Christopher Reeve
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Pulitzer
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Pulitzer
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We could think of Clark as an entirely differnet species. When I watched the show, I thought it was more likely like they were different... dunno the word (races, maybe?), like dogs: there are bulldogs, St. Bernard's dogs and others I don't know the English words for  . Anyway, I was actually wondering if an explanation was given on the show so that I don't write anything inaccurate (I'm trying to stick on the given background for LC&S). I take it there's nothing, so... I can use the explanation I've invented! Thanks a lot. AnnaBtG.
What we've got here is failure to communicate...
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Merriwether
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Merriwether
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Different types of dogs are called breeds. They're all one species -- hence they can interbreed.
And Laura, similarity of structure does not dictate similarity of genes. Some incredibly similar structures can be coded for by completely different genes in different organisms.
Do you know the most surprising thing about divorce? It doesn't actually kill you, like a bullet to the heart or a head-on car wreck. It should. When someone you've promised to cherish till death do you part says, "I never loved you," it should kill you instantly.
- Under the Tuscan Sun
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Merriwether
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The only problem with Julie and Anni's answer is that they are just guesses -- for good or bad, the only real answer to your question, Anna, is "we don't know because the show never gave any information at all about what the problem was." As LauraA says, it's up to each fanfic writer to determine that for themselves.
I think LauraA sums it up very well, though -- writers might take the stance that it's impossible for them to conceive or that Clark has a solvable fertility problem that has nothing to do with his alien orgins. Or they might decide they will have no fertility problems at all.
This second scenario is the one we took in Season 5. We gave Clark a relatively common male fertility problem, but with a twist -- being an alien, it turned out that he had a "cycle" just like a human female would, and would thus test fertile only at periodic intervals. The trick for L&C, then, was to match their fertility cycles so they could conceive. (This solution had the added benefit of explaining why Dr. Klein would decide Superman was infertile, while Sam Lane, testing several weeks later, would see no problem.)
So bottom line: It's up to you as the fanfic writer to decide how you want to handle the situation.
Oh, but for the record, although they never identified Clark's exact problem on the show, we do know from the writers that Dr. Klein would have ultimately been proven wrong. The baby from "Family Hour" was intended to be a decendent of theirs from the future, and finding this out (presumably in the 5th season premiere) would have given L&C the knowledge that someday they would conceive. In this case, Sam Lane was right when he looked at Dr. Klein's data and said "this isn't right" -- he just got his memory wiped before he could tell L&C what he'd found.
Kathy
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Top Banana
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I don't remember the exact words, but Clark definitely told Lois that "Dr. Klein said that Superman's [? something?] and an earth woman's are incompatible for reproduction." Whatever it was, the implication was clear that it had to do with Clark being an alien.
On the other hand, as has been pointed out, Dr. Klein was wrong. So, perhaps they didn't have an infertility problem at all. (That is, many writers assume they had a problem, but it could be solved. But if Dr. Klein was wrong in his assumptions, maybe there was no infertility problem, period. They had only been married a few months at most. I think most doctors let a couple try for a year before deciding there might be a problem.)
Bottom line - you can pretty much write it however you want.
- Vicki
Edited: Come to think of it, Faster Than a Speeding Vixon was the first show in which they "didn't take precautions". Then, later in the same show, they do, in fact, take precautions. So I don't know that they *ever* actually tried to get pregnant. I think they just asked Doc Klein, and then accepted his word for it.
"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster and what has happened once in 6,000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution" - Daniel Webster
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Merriwether
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You make a good point, Vicki, about there possibly not being any problem at all. I think Zoomway took this approach in "Persistance of Memory" by revealing that, through the use of time travel, Dr. Klein's data was deliberately altered to make it seem as if Kryptonians and Earthlings were incompatible, when in fact, there was no problem at all. It's neat how many plausible theories FoLCs can come up with.  We have a very creative bunch of writers! Kathy
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Beat Reporter
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This topic reminded me of the following quote from the movie "Mallrats"...
Brodie: He's an alien, for Christ sake. His Kyrptonian biological makeup is enhanced by earth's yellow sun. If Lois gets a tan the kid could kick right through her stomach. Only someone like Wonder Woman has a strong enough uterus to carry his kid. The only way he could **** regular chicks is with a kryptonite condom. That would kill him!
...That's the "Mallrats" explanation of Lois and Clark's fertility problem... Not like it helps, but it is still pretty funny!
-Wanda :p
"He's a man. I'm a woman. Do you want me to draw you a diagram?" -Lois Lane, I've Got a Crush on You.
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Pulitzer
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Pulitzer
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Originally posted by KathyB:
(This solution had the added benefit of explaining why Dr. Klein would decide Superman was infertile, while Sam Lane, testing several weeks later, would see no problem.)
<SNIP>
In this case, Sam Lane was right when he looked at Dr. Klein's data and said "this isn't right" -- he just got his memory wiped before he could tell L&C what he'd found.
Kathy I have a terrible confession to make: I NEVER SAW FAMILY HOUR. However, everything I've read seemed to indicate that Sam found nothing wrong with Klein's research; so where does all this come from? Could someone please set me straight? What exactly did Sam say about Superman?
~•~
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Merriwether
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I don't have the script in front of me, but basically, Sam is staying up late, reviewing the data, then shakes his head and says something like "Well, this can't be right!". The implication is that he's found a mistake in Klein's data. Yet before he can tell L&C what he found, his memory was wiped out from that gizmo (including his memory that Clark is Superman).
Kathy
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Merriwether
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Y'know, Kathy, I've seen that ep many times, and I never read what you have into that scene. Something wasn't making sense -- but that doesn't have to have been Klein's results. Interesting take on it.
Do you know the most surprising thing about divorce? It doesn't actually kill you, like a bullet to the heart or a head-on car wreck. It should. When someone you've promised to cherish till death do you part says, "I never loved you," it should kill you instantly.
- Under the Tuscan Sun
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Top Banana
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Oh boy. I never expected there to be such a debate over a topic like this. Anyway, you all have good points, maybe I forgot the part where Sam finds a mistake because the last time I saw Family Hour was a few months ago. So, My assumption is that somehwere Doctor Klein may have made his mistake. What Kathy said doesn't make a lot of sense to me about the cycle, because assuming even if he does have a cycle, Sam wasn't examining Clark when he found the mistake, he was looking at the same info sheet Doctor Klein had (I think?). So there could be no indication of a cycle. But fanfic truly does bring lots of solutions One of the things I do all the time is close my room for a few hours and read a good long fanfic story (Even thought some take more than a few hours- for example Wendy's "Faux Pas" which took me a couple of days but was very well worth it).
Mulder: Imagine if you could come back and take out five people who had caused you to suffer. Who would they be?
Scully: I only get five?
Mulder: I remembered your birthday this year, didn't I, Scully?
(The X-Files)
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Top Banana
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I haven't seen FH in years (I've only seen it once when it was first aired because I hated it so much and I haven't read S5 in a long time, but I think Kathy was just saying that's what they came up with as the rational for the baby they had in S5/S6. When I thought of Sam looking at the data, I thought he was looking at Dr. Klein's data and found a mistake. Like a wrong calculation or wrong assumption (unfortunately, even good BMEs, like Dr. Klein, are prone to making mistakes  that's why we have people check our work). There are a lot of stories that try to fix the fertility problem and I think most of them have taken a different approach. That's why I say that anyone could come up with a solution to the same problem that is completely different from anyone else's solution and still seem completely valid. I thought S5's solution was really novel and very interesting and well-planned. I thought Yvonne dealt with it brilliantly in "Kidnapped." I dealt with it in my recent story, "Medical Miracles," but not nearly as well as they did. I am sure there are tons of other stories that do the same thing on the archive, and did it brilliantly, but at 2am those are the stories that are comming to mind. I also have some theories about whether any baby would have Superman's powers or not, but that's not important . - Laura
Laura "The Yellow Dart" U. (Alicia U. on the archive)
"A hero is an ordinary individual who finds the strength to persevere and endure in spite of overwhelming obstacles." -- Christopher Reeve
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Merriwether
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What Kathy said doesn't make a lot of sense to me about the cycle, because assuming even if he does have a cycle, Sam wasn't examining Clark when he found the mistake, he was looking at the same info sheet Doctor Klein had (I think?). So there could be no indication of a cycle. Well, you have to read S5 to get the full context. I wasn't saying that Sam discovered Clark's cycle. In S5, L&C first heard of the cycle's existence when they traveled to the future to return the baby from Family Hour to his rightful parents. While there, they met their youngest child, a son, who was at this point the baby's grandfather. When they were clearly overwhelmed by the fact that they had children at all, the baby's father chuckled and said something like "Ah, I guess you haven't figured out your cycle yet ... yeah, that took me and my wife forever!" The knowledge that they will have children in the future caused Clark to go back to Dr. Klein and ask for more specific information about why he and Lois were incompatible, and that's when he discovered it was a relatively common infertility problem. Around that same time, L&C went undercover in an infertility clinic and allowed someone they trusted to run another test, just to keep up their cover. (After being assured by Dr. Klein that this one test wouldn't give away the fact it was Superman's sperm being tested.) When the test at the clinic tested completely normal, L&C clued in -- this must be the cycle they'd been told about. In other words, depending on the "time of month", Clark's sperm might test incompatible or perfectly normal. As for what Sam was looking at, though, we really don't know whether he only had Klein's data or he had also run some tests of his own to compare. After all, why would L&C need to let him know that CK=S if he were only going to review Klein's data? If all they needed was a second set of eyes, they could have asked him to "help our friend Superman" or whatever. Certainly, it's greater incentive to have him be helping his daughter and son-in-law, but the implication was that he *had* to know Clark was Superman in order to help them. So I think it's possible he ran his own tests as well. Kathy
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Beat Reporter
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Personally, I have always thought Dr. Klein was terribly mistaken and if they would have gone on for one more season, they would have been able to better understand what happened. But, since they didn't, that leaves it up to us fanfic writers Hurray for fanfic! Completely agree with you on this, Laura. I'm sure Jor El also investigated that angle. Why would he send his son to a planet if he wouldn't be able to really mingle with the people there and have a normal life - in all aspects?
Lois: Well, I like my quirks. I think they make me unique.
Clark: You certainly are unique.
Clark: You're high maintenance, you know that?
Lois: But I'm worth it!
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Pulitzer
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well, i've always assumed that it was his alien heratige. enough of a coinicidence that he looks human. that you could maybe account for by claiming parallel evolution (opposable thumbs are so useful, and it's handy having all the major sensory equipment gathered so it can be more easily focused on one object, and... ). still, it'd be cool if they were compatible. with the human shape and the flying and the super speed and everything, you're already suspending enough disbelief that saying they're genetically compatible is just a drop in the bucket.  i do like the idea that they need some help of some sort, but that's just me. in any case, for those who are curious, here's the scene from FH. Three a.m. From O.S. a RHYTHMIC THUMPING. CAMERA MOVES to
find Misha pounding his head on his work table. He looks
wretchedly up at the clock, hair and glasses askew.
MISHA
My God. In a few hours he'll be
here.
(looks off)
Sam. _Sam_.
REVEAL Sam. He's across the room, hunched wearily over
mounds of files and data, typing things into his computer.
(CONTINUED)
--page break-- "THE FAMILY HOUR" (#22) Buckner & Ross-Leming 4/2/97 28.
42 CONTINUED: 42
MISHA
It _doesn't_!!
SAM
Ah.
(squinting at data)
These figures can't be right...
MISHA
You've got to help me.
(no response)
_Sam_.
(beat)
What the _hell_ are you working on
over there?
SAM
Just a little project of my own.
Nothing important.
MISHA
You... wouldn't hold out on me.
(no response)
Sam, I'm in debt! If you've got
something over there I could use to
buy time...
SAM
No... no... I don't think so.
A tiny framed mirror is among the things on the wall over
Sam's work area, reflecting the papers spread out before
him. Misha fishes through the pile of gadgets on his
workbench, finds a tiny silver tube, squints through it.
43 HIS TELESCOPIC POINT OF VIEW 43
Sam is putting a thick file folder into a metal briefcase.
Just before the lid shuts, we can see "STAR LABS - Top
Secret" printed on the file folder. Sam shuts the case,
locks the combination lock. and that's all that's relevant (probably a bit more, too... ). imo, it's perfect for the season finale (they didn't know it was the series finale at the time it was filmed). enough that you know there's some hope, but vague enough that future writers have plenty of flexibility. Paul
When in doubt, think about penguins. It probably won't help, but at least it'll be fun.
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Beat Reporter
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I think that something that throws people off is that in one of the last scenes, Lois says something like, "I'm sorry my father couldn't find anything wrong with Dr. Klein's data." Now, his memory was wiped before he could tell them anything, so one has to wonder how she knew that. After all, earlier, Sam had said that the figures weren't right. I tend to take the approach that Dr. Klein was somehow wrong.  After all, he's a scientist, not a fertility expert. It's entirely possible that his results could be flawed, deliberately sabotaged, etc. Laura (who loves writing next gen just so she can play with a different dynamic)
“Rules only make sense if they are both kept and broken. Breaking the rule is one way of observing it.”
--Thomas Moore
"Keep an open mind, I always say. Drives sensible people mad, I know, but what did we ever get from sensible people? Not poetry or art or music, that's for sure."
--Charles de Lint, Someplace to Be Flying
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