Lois & Clark Forums Forums Fan Fiction Fanfic Related Regarding a common fanfic theme

Hi, my name is Vincent and I'm a first time poster here, although I've been lurking around reading the boards for a while and have read quite a fair number of fanfics from the boards and the archives.

If you're reading this, I wouldn't blame you if you wanted to skip the next paragraph about where the question I'm asking came from.

I guess I'm what you would call one of those people who overanalyzes things - for example, as I watched the show one of the things that I would do is that I'd create in my mind what I would consider the most probable L&C universe (which, given that it is a fictional work, I assume would be that which has the fewest deviations from our own world) Since I'm pretty obsessed with the show, this goes all the way down to relatively unimportant details - without detailing my reasoning, these consist of even the most plot-unrelated things such as Falstonia probably not being a signatory of the nuclear non-proliferation act ("Chip off the Old Clark"), the conventional military forces, population, and land area of the country whose world leader who threatened destruction by armies are larger than that of the probably very strongly nationalist country whose leader threatened destruction by missiles ("Sex, Lies, and Videotape"), Wesley Snipes exists ("Strange Visitor"), Batman and Gotham City both exist (either "We have a Lot to Talk About" or "Ordinary People"), Siegel and Schuster, if they exist in L&C, did not create Superman in 1938, the International Assembly, not the UN, was created following World War II (Pilot), Alfred Nobel created the "International Peace Prize" instead of the "Nobel Prize" ("Sex, Lies, and Videotape")...etc. etc. the list goes on and on.

But I digress - getting to the point, I've noticed a recurring theme in various stories written by more than a few authors, which is basically that Lois slept with Paul in college(the guy mentioned in "The Rival")

Now, I was wondering how this came about - I've rethought my interpretation of "The Rival" over and over and have been unable to come to any conclusion that would suggest that this could have happened in canon (Lois clearly implying that Paul never noticed her, Lois's later contradictory and unconvincing denial of Linda's more calm assertion that Lois and Paul hadn't even been dating, Lois's apparent disgust at the mention of Linda just jumping into bed with Paul, etc.).

So what I'm wondering is how so many people got the idea - did one author think of it and then the idea was adapted by others, is there a different interpretation of the dialogue in the episode, or is there yet another explanation?

I mean, with other common fanfic themes shared by multiple authors I think I've been able to piece together the train of thought that lead to it, (fanfic challenge, intuitive modification to a major plot element in an episode, followup of stated intent by a character, etc.) but I'm not so sure about this one.

Well, I have looked through the skript a while back, and I clearly recall Lois saying he was her first. Although I have to admit that she very probly meant "her first crush". Anyway, I can imagine people getting ideas from this admission.

Hi Vincent, welcome to the boards!

I think that such things just happen.

I read a lot of fanfics as well, and Claude is always mentioned as Lois' former lover. I'm sure there are a lot of fics where Paul was also her lover.

Honestly, I didn't even know who Claude was before I started reading the fics of this archive. I just missed that his name was mentioned in the Pilot. And I think that some others might have missed this as well. Only when I saw the Pilot again, I recognized his name.

So maybe, if one of the more famous authors of this community once established Paul as a bedmate for Lois, others just read it and thought it was mentioned in the show. It might have just been a "freedom of the author" act, but who can tell? Maybe it was useful for the plot if Lois had more than one bad experience before she met Clark.

I agree with the others here, but I wanted to add that if Lois hadn't been involved that intimately then it wouldn't have the emotional impact on her as a character. If it was just a "crush" then that is a lot easier to get over then if it went further.

I think that it is easier to believe that Lois would only bother to mention it because it had been more significant to her history then a mere crush. Those bad experiences would form her opinions on men for the future. It also wouldn't have bothered her so much if the men had either boasted or bad mouthed her after if there really was no after. Right? I'm not certain I remember if both of these men were supposed to have done something like that, but it does make for a more interesting background for Lois.

I think if you dig deep enough there are some more things that are considered canon that were created by fan writers and have been excepted by all. Like I'm not certain I remember how many times Lois is mentioned as a bad cook, but it certainly seems to be a real common theme in the stories. Maybe she just doesn't have time or can't be bothered to cook in the show? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Rhea

Hi Rhea! There are several times in the show that she attempts to cook and it comes out less than adequate. In season 2 (Metallo?) she makes (I think) oatmeal and it turns out looking atrocious. She says to Clark that she bets he can't believe she made it. He picks up the spoon and lets a few clumps fall off and says "no, he believes it".

Then in Season 2 (Resurrection?) she makes Rumaki which supposedly sets Clark's mouth on fire (although he is Superman - how bad can it be) but Dan manages to stomach it. <g>

In Season 3, in one episode (Chip off the Old Clark?), Clark is making spaghetti sauce and Lois says one day they'll be an old married couple, mentions something along those lines and then says "you cooking, me watching". Clark asks if she's not planning to cook. She says no. He says he always thought she didn't cook because of lack of time and she says "no, lack of talent".

Then in Season 4 she makes a roast (Ghosts?) that turns out as hard as a brick. And all during that ep she complains about her lack of cooking skills. She even tries to hire a famous chef for cooking lessons.

Okay, I'm tapped out. I just love these kind of challenges though - and I use Lois's poor cooking skills often in my stories. If I had more time (on my lunch break from work) I'd look up the actual episodes to make sure I got them right... but no more time.

See ya!

-- DJ

No worries, DJ, every one was right. And I totally agree with you on the reference to Resurrection - the man ate bombs and swallowed noxious gas, for heaven's sake, yet Lois' rumaki was too spicy?!? Right...

Kathy

Ah well, considering that Clark only eats food because he enjoys the experience, it might not be so strange. His senses are quite acute after all.

It reminds me of that episode where Clark complains about Lois babbeling in his ear when he strained to listen over a greater distance, something he described as knife through his head.

Also she mentions in Man of Steel Bars (I think it's that one) that she can only cook four things and "this is the only one without chocolate."

Kathy, if you haven't seen the "motivational poster" that C_A made for us (regarding Lois's rumaki) you've got to go take a peek. It's in the FOLC Productions folder. Ha ha. Too funny!

-- DJ

Welcome to the boards, vsp.

To get back to your original question, vsp. I've always doubted, because of some of the comments that Lois made, that she actually slept with Paul. Although, I think it is somewhat open to interpretation. After all, she does say that 'things were happening' in that girlish voice of hers. And it is possible that Linda didn't know that Lois had slept with Paul and Lois, during that later conversation, still was not willing to tell Linda that (given what had happened).

However, the problem comes in, for the author, in that we only know of one of her former lovers - Claude. And since she talks about having several 'federal disasters', we suspect there must be more than just Claude.

As a writer, it's often easier to use Paul as one of those previous 'disasters' because then no explanation is necessary for the reader to know who that lover was. Otherwise, you have to give more than just a name - you have to give an explanation. Was this a collage relationship? Was it long relationship? What made it a federal disaster? - those types of questions.

So... for me, when I use Paul as a former lover, it's sort of a short cut - especially when it's just a small point in the story. I guess you could call it cheating , but it saves the author some time and the reader some time - since no long explanations are necessary.

For example, if Lois and Clark are talking about her previous relationships, it's easier to say:

"And then there was Paul - but you know all about him..."

Then it is to say:

"And then there was Kyle. I met him a couple years before you came to the Daily Planet. He was the assistant to the Governor. And he seemed like a really great guy until I found out that he was helping the Governor steal money from the public. It was then that I learned that he started his relationship with me because..."

So... using Paul as a former lover is just... easier. At least, that's the case for me.

ML

The nuclear non-proliferation act probably wouldn't have applied anyway to Falstonia because those the country though fictional would've been part of the former Soviet Union so even though Russia is a signatory, many of these warheads were unaccounted for after the fall of Communism in Eastern Europe.

As to the cooking thing I'm under the assumption that Lois wanted to be able to cook something for Clark once in a while.

Hmm, interesting comments by all. It hadn't even occured to me to look at it from that perspective...my impression was that the incident was meant to be a really sore point for Lois because a friend, and not just any friend, but her BEST friend, consciously stabbed her in the back.

But yea, with Lois's tendency to modify/embellish/not tell the truth at this point in the series it's impossible to be 100% certain. If you take away the tone of the conversations it's easier to see how there might have been something - Lois's assertion that she and Paul were dating seems less like an outright lie without the voice inflections.

But I can definitely see how it would help writers who want to introduce previous relationships. At least Paul has a name attached to him, which is better than nothing at all.

As to the cooking thing - I guess the others answered that one. I thought it was kind of funny that Clark had trouble cutting the hard steak in "Ghosts". (ok, so he wasn't trying all that hard. But still, he's Superman...) The nice looking Christmas dinner in "Season's Greedings" can probably be explained away by buying already/almost already prepared food.

As to Falstonia being a former Soviet Republic, I thought they were too far west to be a Soviet Republic from the map that was shown...I had them placed in Western Europe northwest of West Germany in the neighborhood of Belgium. My memory is a bit fuzzy on this one though, so I might have to double check on that one...

I actually used deduction for that one given that the name is somewhat consistant with the name of Estonia a country which had been part of the Soviet Union. From the map I saw it probably borders Latvia, Russia and Estonia of course it doesn't exist, but it seemed like it was around there.

Yes, you are absolutely right - Falstonia is on the Northeastern edge of the Black Sea. Guess my memory was playing tricks on me.

On an unrelated side note, it's probably a safe bet to assume that Gadansk and whatever it's rival nation was called are former Soviet Republics as well, with one of the leaders being called Kasparov. (plus Gadansk or however it's spelled sounds Russian too)

Well, if you haven’t noticed yet, there is a lot of us like that here....


I think some of this happens because now days some folks can’t conceive of the idea that you can have a romantic relationship with somebody and that not mean having had sexual relations. I recently wrote one of the 20 minute challenge fics and mentioned a ‘relationship’. I received both feedback and private correspondence indicating that ‘Tom’ in the story was involved sexually with his so called girlfriend and was in fact was actually living with her. That was not my intention (and I plan to rectify the situation with a rewrite - even if it was a 20 minute challenge)

Actually, from strictly watching the show, I never got the idea that Lois slept with Paul either. I always rather thought that her only experience was with ‘Claude’.


Don’t remember that. Yes, I just looked. It’s hard to know from just reading that what she meant. BUT I just put the ep in and watched it. She doesn’t say in the episode.


Oh, I totally disagree with that. I think the pain can be ever bit as great with a crush. Does this go back to the perspective of what I said above: that some people assume that someone in a relationship automatically has had sex with that person?


I disagree with that, too. Many years ago, I dated a guy. I never slept with him. But he decided that he should tell the world that we had. That hurt me far more than losing a guy to another girl that I thought was my friend (that also happened).


Yes, it does. I think that comes from her saying in season one that she could only cook four things. Then she says to Zara: Finally someone worse in the kitchen than me. But yet, in the fourth season, she cooked dinner for the two of them on at least one occasion - and she cooked steak. Not the easiest thing to cook right. So maybe she learned.


I always thought that odd, too. I just assumed Clark didn’t like the hot stuff.


Ah, yes, that’s true.


That’s true, but just because she had several federal disasters doesn’t mean she had sex with all of them.


East Germany was right next to West Germany (well obviously). And the Czech Republic and Slovakia (both formerly part of the USSR as Czechoslovakia) are not that far from either Germany or Belgium

Oh Nancy, you're very obviously not a European. By our standards that is far away. But anyway, near Belgium there is Luxembourg and the Netherlands. None of them would qualify for having nuclear weapons. Apart from France and UK there are no nuclear weapons in Europe. Assuming that those which were installed in Germany by the US have left our country. (Hopefully so)

Anyway, Falstonia right in the middle of western Europe wouldn't be possible.

A crush? A crush is just a bit of infatuation to me. No real feeling behind it--except maybe physical attraction and nervousness. To me, the word "crush" doesn't imply sex at all. It BARELY implies kissing (if it's a mutual crush--and then only very CHASTE kissing), and it definitely implies nervousness before holding the other person's hand for the first time.

Whereas, being IN LOVE with someone (whether they return the feeling or not) implies real feelings, and someone in love with another person WILL be hurt if they are rejected (like Lois was with Paul).

Whether or not the two people had had sex, or even if the other person returned the feelings, is irrelevant.

Sure, it would hurt MORE if someone you were in love with had rejected you after sleeping with you. But that doesn't mean it wouldn't hurt a whole HECK of a lot even if the two people involved didn't sleep together.

As far as I know, there was no mention of Paul bad-mouthing Lois after anything involving the two of them (or Linda).

<random tangent>
That reminds me of a joke: The difference between Europeans and Americans is that a European thinks 100 miles is a long way, while an American thinks 100 years is a long time.


</random tangent>

Oh, I totally agree with this. However, the comment allows the writer, if they feel it is necessary for the story they want to write, to interpret it to mean that there was more than just Claude.

On the other hand, for the story I'm currently working on, I have Claude being her only previous sexual experience - because in this story it just works better. So in my current story, Paul was not a former lover and Lois' comments to Clark about previous federal disasters must just mean relationships and not sexual relationships.

That is one thing I love about writing these stories: the amount of freedom I have to take completely opposite positions on issues - depending on what I hope to accomplish

The one thing I can not do is portray Lois as a virgin and remain in canon. I can portray her as such, but then we are talking alternate universes (so even then, there is a way around it ) However, if that was the only change I had made to canon, I would likely mention it in the headnote so that the reader doesn't get confused when reading the story.

ML

Pam wrote:
During WWII, when German POWs were interred in Western states like Utah and Wyoming, some of the more 'enthusiastic' prisoners found a map of the US and, not understanding the map's scale of miles, decided that they could make it to the East Coast in a few days if they could get away from the area of the camp. One particular prisoner broke out, walked east for about five days, then discovered he was still in the same state. Upon learning that he'd covered such a small distance, he sought out a local sherrif and surrendered. When questioned about his intentions, he told his 'hosts' that New York didn't look that far away on the map.

And to contribute another telling joke about cultural differences:

What do you call a person who speaks two languages? Bilingual.

What do you call a person who speaks three languages? Trilingual.

What do you call a person who speaks only one language? An American.